FW190A not allowed in JGs

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FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 4:11:55 PM

Walloc

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Wondering if there is a design decision behind that i dont seem to be able to manually(not seen the ai do either) upgrade any JGs to FW190As only the ZGs and the SKGs.
I got loads of FW190A in the pool with no use. Historicly yes some JGs only used ME109 through out the war, but some of the JGs on map did upgrade to FW190. Since the FW190A had prioverty on going to the west front is more the reason not more JGs was converted to FW190A, but what if i have the airframes in game?
So what gives ss it some thing that will change over time or?

Kind Regards, and merry xmas to all

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 12/24/2010 4:13:15 PM >

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 4:41:00 PM

Helpless

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Will fix.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 4:43:19 PM

ComradeP

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What's odd too is that although production starts in 1941, no units are using it in the 1942 campaign.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 5:06:58 PM

Walloc

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Hi Pieter,

Historicly, from what i read no JG on the eastern front swapped their ME109 too FW190A until after Case Blue started.
Hench why i wondered if it became an option later on.
One could argue in game, that for the eastern front u get too many FW190A as is now. On the other hand u could argue that ME109 production allocated to the eastern front starts a tad low.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 12/24/2010 5:17:38 PM >

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 5:11:21 PM

joey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Will fix.

What planes would upgrade to the FW190A?

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 5:35:33 PM

ComradeP

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quote:

Historicly, from what i read no JG on the eastern front swapped their ME109 too FW190A until after Case Blue started.
Hench why i wondered if it became an option later on.
One could argue in game, that for the eastern front u get too many FW190A as is now. On the other hand u could argue that ME109 production allocated to the eastern front starts a tad low.

Rasmus, I was also wondering why it's being produced if it wasn't used historically, and have asked about it on the tester forum.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 5:43:36 PM

joey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

Historicly, from what i read no JG on the eastern front swapped their ME109 too FW190A until after Case Blue started.
Hench why i wondered if it became an option later on.
One could argue in game, that for the eastern front u get too many FW190A as is now. On the other hand u could argue that ME109 production allocated to the eastern front starts a tad low.

Rasmus, I was also wondering why it's being produced if it wasn't used historically, and have asked about it on the tester forum.

On a quick search I found the I./J.G. 51 converted to FW190As on the Eastern Front.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 5:47:49 PM

joey

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A more detailed search shows quite a number of FW190A unitss on the Eastern Front in 1942 and 1943. I am surprised.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 6:12:55 PM

ComradeP

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In early, mid or late 1942? I'm talking about early 1942, and the FW 190A enters production in October 1941 I believe. In the 1942 campaign, no units start with the FW 190A and only 20 are in the pool, the rest of the production seems to have disappeared to other fronts, possibly as historical.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 6:15:15 PM

joey

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September 42 timeframe.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 6:48:17 PM

Walloc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Rasmus, I was also wondering why it's being produced if it wasn't used historically, and have asked about it on the tester forum.

In early, mid or late 1942? I'm talking about early 1942, and the FW 190A enters production in October 1941 I believe. In the 1942 campaign, no units start with the FW 190A and only 20 are in the pool, the rest of the production seems to have disappeared to other fronts, possibly as historical.

Hi Pieter,

Well the short answer as u are getting at ur self if not 100% correct, is that the FW190A was at periode seen as a superior plane. It was needed against the better pilots and planes aka West front and Afrika, where the russian pilots and planes wasnt in high regard by germans so ME109 was sufficient on the eastern front. Also the airwar on the eastern front was in generally done at fairly low altitude. Some pilots did prefere the Me109 over the FW190, tho.

Hench my comment that FW190 production numbers is maybe to high or should start later. Considering this is a east front only game.

I know the new beta alters some of the figther losses and i think it needed. So i hasnt been so sad u been getting more planes than u possibly should have. When u look at the losses in 1941/42 the german losses pre latest patch which i havent tried yet seems out of wack if u wana compare to historical losses.
After my first try as german in the '41 CG, where i basicly left airdoctrine at 50% before use i had lost well over 2500 planes by start of winter '41 and my airforces was non excisting.
I've been VERY conservative since to keep losses down. Flying much much less than historically since the losses seemed so high and it hasnt been needed much.
The kill ratio in '41 early 42 historicly and we talking after day 1 was simply unbelieble. I cant seem to recreate those and the control u have over the airwar is limited. So not sure what exactly else to do, tho i might learn. So i just been flying much less. I mean, i typically in 1 mission might lose to what ever causes operational/enemy air/flak as many planes as german Me109 Staffel lost in an entire month of intensive figthing historicly.

By 18 July the Geschwader had chalked up its 500th Soviet air claim, and on 1 August became the third Geschwader to claim 1,000 air kills. In the period 22 June - 5 December 1941 the unit destroyed 1,078 Soviet aircraft in return for 46 losses in aerial combat and a single fighter on the ground[1].

I mean even if we assume the kills are not correct, looking at the own losses which i assume is pretty correct. Added operational losses u still at a figur that i cant seem to get any where near. Assuming i fly as much as in this case JG54 did.
Again i know the patch should lower figther loses, but i still wonder if its enough. Time will tell.

Kind regards and merry xmas all,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 12/25/2010 2:20:07 AM >

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 7:54:00 PM

abulbulian

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Yeah, I have the same problem. Trying to figure out why 800 FW 190A are sitting in the pool. This is SO SO wrong. Like Germany could just stock up planes to collect dust? Come on, how about some kind of an answer for the developers on what the heck is going on here. I don't mind microing if I have to, but I want to get these planes to the front and doing something

PLEASE!!!

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 10:59:27 PM

Mus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

A more detailed search shows quite a number of FW190A unitss on the Eastern Front in 1942 and 1943. I am surprised.

Why? FW-190 became a real workhorse for the Luftwaffe.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/24/2010 11:09:53 PM

joey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

A more detailed search shows quite a number of FW190A unitss on the Eastern Front in 1942 and 1943. I am surprised.

Why? FW-190 became a real workhorse for the Luftwaffe.

Yes it did, but on the other front.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 12:19:10 AM

Mus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

Yes it did, but on the other front.

Everything I have read states it was used on all fronts.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 12:27:32 AM

joey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

Yes it did, but on the other front.

Everything I have read states it was used on all fronts.

Well then, it needs to be more in represented in WiTE. Right now it is a bit of an after thougth.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 1:37:20 AM

Walloc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

Yes it did, but on the other front.

Everything I have read states it was used on all fronts.

Which isnt incorrect, but neither does it tell the whole story.
FW190 wasnt a prioverty on the eastern front. Most of the JGs on the eastern front exclusivly uses Me109 through out the entire war. Yes some did convert to FW190A why IMHO it should be allowed as opposed to now. Question to me is the numbers. While in use on the eastern front, comparily few was. Even some of the first JGs that recieved FW190A converted back to Me109 cuz the FW190 was needed else where, only to later get the FW190 again.
Atm from 10/41 u get 42 FW190A vs 24 Me109. Almost twice the number of FW190A.

All that said im not to sad about the situasion. The airwar aspect still seems to be lacking a bit. Stressing it could be me as a player, but historicly Luftwaffe owned the Red airforce in '41(well later too, just not enough to get around), to a degree that is hard to comprehend. Around 20-1 kill ratios in figthers. I havent been able to get any where near that. 4-1 maybe 5-1, helped by some destoyed on the ground too around 10-1, including the 5k kills u get on day 1. Which accounts for half the russian losses. With out those teh kill ration ofc gets even worse. This is using very few missions. If i try serious battling the red airforce, not that much is around, i certainly lose way more than the 24 Me109 which is about half those produced i recieve per turn. Attriting the figtherarm of the Luftwaffe. Overall the luftwaffe figthers/bombers seems to take to many casulties just flying. Be it from operational, AtA combat or from flak.
So until this is solved and i saw the 1.02 introduced some reduction in losses, im not too unhappy with receiving to many figthers. They are needed

Since what u can do in the airwar and not complaining about that just stating its limited what i can do differently to obtain a better kill ration or lower losses generally to the Luftwaffe. At leased that I can see. Advice appriciated if any got tips.
Other than not flying

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 12/25/2010 2:05:37 AM >

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 3:51:02 AM

CarnageINC

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Im not an air war expert on any front, but to me the ME109 should be eating these soviet antiques up in 41 at a lot higher rate. I agree with all you guys have said, but I think that the development team knows about the air war situation and many testers have stated that the air war is something that is for future updates. Time will tell if this is true, and I think they will fine tune the air war in time we just have to be patient gentlemen.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 5:18:05 AM

vinnie71

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I agree with the above posters. The basic problem for the Soviets was that the bulk of their airforce was made up of poorly trained personnel. Coupled with the fact that many of their aircraft weren't exactly top notch before '43, it led to massive air to air casualty rate. My opinion is that Soviets should have lower (much lower) experience in the begining, maybe somewhere akin to Axis minor allies so that to represent the gradual advancement of the Red Airforce over time

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 10:27:36 AM

ComradeP

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A problem is that there's no air superiority phase or something similar, so all air-to-air casualties are mission related. That can dramatically reduce or increase Soviet casualties, depending on how many/if any fighters show up to participate in a battle/intercept an air mission. Previously, you could lure most of the enemy fighters to battle with some minor air missions, but that was recently changed.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 11:06:09 AM

Smirfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

A problem is that there's no air superiority phase or something similar, so all air-to-air casualties are mission related. That can dramatically reduce or increase Soviet casualties, depending on how many/if any fighters show up to participate in a battle/intercept an air mission. Previously, you could lure most of the enemy fighters to battle with some minor air missions, but that was recently changed.

Yup thats the problem, makes no sense at all. Air superiority should be a phase definately a distinction between that and escort

< Message edited by Smirfy -- 12/25/2010 11:16:01 AM >

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 11:12:13 AM

ComradeP

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You can launch fighter only air raids on air bases, but those are far less effective than they used to be (the previously possible results are shown in the 1943 AAR between Bob and Flavio) and you take damage/losses from AA in the process.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 11:22:39 AM

Smirfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

You can launch fighter only air raids on air bases, but those are far less effective than they used to be (the previously possible results are shown in the 1943 AAR between Bob and Flavio) and you take damage/losses from AA in the process.

Air superiority should be under the hood you allocate your resources to an area and forget about it until you need to tweak numbers and formations. It should be a definate phase. Aircraft not on Air superiority should be available for the player to escort missions and do deliberate attacks.

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RE: FW190A not allowed in JGs - 12/25/2010 12:13:17 PM

CarnageINC

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Air superiority would be a awesome fix if it could be emplimented into the mechanics of the game. Something needs to be done, to me the easist fix would be to have the stats on early Russian fighters and bombers dropped so more losses of there type occur. I know most of the German aces got most of there kills on the east front and if you look at the squadrons it shows how many kills there getting total and for a weeks worth of missions they are way way way to low IMO.

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