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RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/3/2011 9:40:59 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		After pondering my situation and making some minor adjustments to troop placements I decided to go for the attacks mainly to the NE of Gomel and a few around Kirovograd losing 1.2k troops in the process with the Soviets losing 24k, 0.3k guns and 0.1k AFVs in addition to another unit.

And most important there are less units that are able to run during the AI's turn now.






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Post #: 61
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 1:17:49 AM   
CharonJr

 

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Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is the situation at the beginning of turn 11 for the drive to isolate Leningrad.

The Soviets moved a fair number of units in my way and I am afraid it will get rather harder than easier the longer I wait/the more slowly and careful I move.

I am tempted to launch some probing attacks with 1-2 of the infantry divisions and see if the eastern route can be taken, or if due to terrain and/or the units (2 divisions are NW of my Cav while the other units are located in heavy woods - fort level is 1 in most hexes) it seems unlikely to break through there.

The western route should provide less resistance, but involves crossing at least 2 swamp hexes and 2 rivers.

edit: I should be able to free up 1-2 additional units from further south and replace units protecting the flanks with them.

Any ideas ?






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< Message edited by CharonJr -- 1/4/2011 1:18:57 AM >

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Post #: 62
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 2:15:37 AM   
Mynok


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If you can drive to the Baltic to the NW with the 18th army then you should. Lots of units to be isolated there.

You need to widen your supply line into there. Your trucks are going to get massacred supplying your units. Rout those two inf divs in the swamps. And I would setup to bust through his line along the middle east-west rail line where those NKVD units are. Your panzers can move ok in the woods and isolate more units opening a NE route to Lake Ladoga for your infantry.


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Post #: 63
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 7:40:24 AM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		How effective are tactical bombers is light/heavy woods? I might bring in some Stukas and fighter cover closer to the front - southern edge of the screenshot.

CharonJr

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Post #: 64
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 9:48:06 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I would use HQ buildup on the PZ corps and use the 50 MPs to punch through the unit NW of the motorised division and push for the port on the Finnish border. This is precisely the situation where burning the trucks and reducing your overall supply is worth the risk to get the grand prize.

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Post #: 65
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 5:28:05 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		Will the units be isolated even if the one port is not taken/isolated also?

I would prefer to do it without using HQ buildup, but considering that I lack the movement to penetrate the Soviet line at the Finns anyway saving 1 turn might be well worth it.

Good ideas, thank you.

CharonJr

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Post #: 66
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 6:23:15 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
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From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		If the ports can't access a railhead themselves, then they can't ship supply anywhere, but I'd need to check the bridgehead supply rules to see if they would apply, but I don't think they would.

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Post #: 67
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 6:41:24 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Just read up about the HQ buildup here, the units will be only supplied on the next turn, so essentially I would not be able to isolate Leningrad during this turn, but on the next one.

So all I can do now is trying to create a good position (hopefully right next to the Soviet forts at 1 or 2 points and break their line on the next turn. I hope to be able to achieve this without HQ buildup, but Mynok has a very good point about making the roads safer for my trucks.

This is the situation after the initial cleanup, I think I am comitted to the NW thrust now but will have to make up my mind about how many units I want to use for holding the eastern line.

And if to try to harass the Soviets with my remaining mobile units or use them to protect the flanks of the "real" thrust - I tend towards guarding the flank.






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< Message edited by CharonJr -- 1/4/2011 6:42:27 PM >

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Post #: 68
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 7:31:56 PM   
Mynok


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Whoops...I thought the earlier map was of a different area. Definitely head northwest.

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Post #: 69
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 7:46:18 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		Was nearly thinking so due to the comment you made, one of the reasons why I made this one larger ;)

The opposition in the NW was even lighter than expected.

CharonJr

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Post #: 70
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 8:44:59 PM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		You might want to grab that area where the rail line heads east then turns north, to help those units trying to cut Leningrad.

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Post #: 71
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 9:59:41 PM   
stewartbragg


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Status: offline 		Have the finish corps blow those forts. They won't be able to move into them but they can "shatter" them!

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Post #: 72
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 10:51:26 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		"Have the finish corps blow those forts. They won't be able to move into them but they can "shatter" them! " - interesting, anything special I need to get them to attack across the no-attack-line? Cause simply right-clicking does not do the trick for me.



T11 north:

With a little help ;) I decide to tackle the Soviet forces around the swamp and manage to move some units up to Lake Lagoda.

Hopefully 1st Panzer and 269th Infantry will be enough to capture Sviritsa after the Soviets move to bring in reinforcements, the last remaining port connecting Leningrad to the rest of the Motherland. If I have to I will throw every unit in the area at the fresh defenders and since there is no railline I hope there will not be too many of those.

One attack is performed on the Leningrad front, hopefully forcing the Soviets to move in additional units here which will not be avaiable further north. Another 2 by the Cav, having no chance vs. the SEC to its NE, but managing to rout the infantry to the east. The rest of the Leningrad front remains static for now, waiting for its isolation.

About 500 tons of fuel and supply are dropped for XXXXI Panzer and XXXVIII Korps, hopefully enabling them to face anything the Soviets might throw in their way.

Around Velikie Luki the pocket is slowly compressed.

Along the western front V and VI Korps take up defensive positions and part of the mobile forces are moved back towards Smolensk.






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Post #: 73
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 10:52:29 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
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Status: offline 		T11 center:

Around Bryansk/Orel the Soviets have largely abandoned their positions, rightfully being afraid of a potential pocket it seems, but the pocket is formed anyway. I doubt there will be many fish left inside the net in the end.

Protection at the pocket's northern flank is quite light considering the proximity to Moscow, but I can not spare any additional units there at the moment. And if the AI does try to break through this should create another opportunity to pocket those units, too.

XXXXVI Panzer is mainly staying in place for some rest.






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Post #: 74
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 10:54:56 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		T11 south:

Reduction of the Kursk pocket is begun with some infantry heading towards Kharkov. And with III Panzer having enough MP left Kharov is "surrounded", but this is a pocket that simply can not hold.

In the south LIV corps reaches Zaporozhye and XXXXVIII Panzer moves south linking up with them. I doubt that there will be many units left in the newly formed Dnepropetrovsk/Zaporozhye pocket.

Infantry heading towards Dnepropetrovsk/Zaporozhye pocket face no opposition, sadly this will mean that I will have to fight those units elsewhere soon.

The defenses at the Krim look bad, I will have to move some German infantry to the south later on.






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Post #: 75
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 10:56:05 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		T11 results:

2 new pockets have been created (most likely barely containing any units) and 2 pockets are currently being reduced - capturing about 150k men and destroying 1.5k guns (barely got any armor and what I got was mostly from outside of the pockets).

The Soviets have been unable to compensate for the 171k men they lost this turn (down -129k) while Germany gained 20k.

Next turn should be fairly slow again, but if the isolation of Leningrad succeeds it will get ugly for the AI after that one.






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Post #: 76
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/4/2011 11:54:01 PM   
stewartbragg


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Status: offline 		I'll have to check my game and see if I can remember what I did that allowed the Fins to attack. Was that a deliberate or hasty attack? I seem to remember I did a hasty.

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Post #: 77
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 12:33:46 AM   
CharonJr

 

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Status: offline 		Tried both, nothing worked, but I could have move a Finnish unit into the former fort hex (but didnt). Maybe you had taken (part of) Leningrad?

CharonJr

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Post #: 78
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 7:41:47 AM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		BTW, when should I start to dig in for the winter, around now?

CharonJr

edit: phrased that poorly, I mean buying fortifications as a 2nd line of defense.


< Message edited by CharonJr -- 1/5/2011 7:51:24 AM >

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Post #: 79
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 11:48:25 AM   
stewartbragg


Posts: 95
Joined: 7/4/2008
Status: offline 		Yes start digging in your line of defense. I was Playing the Road to Leningrad Scenario when I was able to attack the there. I'll try and reproduce this this weekend.

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Post #: 80
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 3:04:21 PM   
karonagames


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From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
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quote:

BTW, when should I start to dig in for the winter, around now?

CharonJr

edit: phrased that poorly, I mean buying fortifications as a 2nd line of defense.


Now you are at the Kursk/Kharkhov/Belgorod line, you may want to think of that as being where you want to start 1942 and act accordingly. I think the jury is out on the return on investment in the forts, but I've always been a go for broke and retreat to the historical start line player rather than a digger. I have seen the AI break lvl4 fortifications so if you set your defensive line behind historical and it breaks you will have more ground to recover in 1942.

Horses for courses. Swings and roundabouts.

edit: but you have Leningrad so you are ahead of the game.

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 1/5/2011 3:07:31 PM >

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Post #: 81
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 5:57:16 PM   
CharonJr

 

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Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		We will see how long it will take to really get Leningrad ;)

The Finns are only fully released (able to attack) once Leningrad is captured, right?

But being able to move Finnish units into defensive positions for the winter will be a huge help (I hope).

CharonJr

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Post #: 82
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 7:25:00 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Once it is isolated you can clean Leningrad up in a couple of turns - avoid the urban hexes initially- hook around to the right.

Yes once Leningrad is captured the Finns are released, and can anchor your northern flank during the blizzard. In turn this will give you plenty of reserves for the rest of the army that should see you through the blizzard, and allow you to keep the Rumanians and Panzers out of the front line for most of the blizzard turns.

You also need to look at your rail grid to ensure that the rail heads are where you want them to refit divisions and rotate them them in and out of the front lines. You may also want to build some lateral branch lines, to help reserves move north-south.

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Post #: 83
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 8:46:46 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T11 follow-up:

Romanian General Vasile Atanasiu is KIA and replaced by Constantin Pantazi, who is actually the slightly better commander.

11 additional units surrendered (76k men, 1k guns), even fewer units left in the pockets ;)

In addition I assigned 9th Army to AGN from AGC, bringing AGN a bit above its command level (101:96 - AGC is at 106:96 now).

Next I Corps is assigned to OKH, bringing AGN down to 93:96 and 18th Army to 20:24.

AGS is still at 117:96 and will be taken care of later.

Grrr, and I have forgotten to set %-to fly back to 90%, Göring will not like this one...


T12 north:

Well, as expected I will need the 3rd port to isolate Leningrad.

The Soviets only managed to put 4 divisions in my way towards linking up with the Finns and with 2 deliberate attacks I was able to force all of them to either retreat (3) or rout (1).

36th Mot moves in to clear the fort and further displace 2 of the defenders that have been forced to retreat earlier, but is failing to do so.

A Finnish infantry division moves into Sviritsa and Leningrad should become isolated during the next turn.

8th Panzer is breaking up the Soviet lines to the west of Vyshny Volochek and parts of LVII Panzer (heading south for some rest) move in, but the town is fairly heavily defended. But mainly I wanted the rail here anyway, my repair unit is fairly close already.

Velikie Luki is taken and more AGN infantry replaces AGC units along the frontline to the west of Moscow.

There appears to be a gap in the Soviet line between Rzhev and Vyazma which is widened and I start to pour some infantry in. Rzhev is surrounded.





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Post #: 84
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 8:47:59 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T12 center:

Infantry replaces XXXXVII Panzer at the front to the west of Tula and the Panzer is moved back for some rest.

As expected the "pocket" around Kharkov was broken, but without any real problems Belgorod and Kharkov are captured and 4 Soviet units encircled.

The defenders of Poltava manage to offer some resistance due to their lvl3 fort and repel 2 deliberate attacks (fort reduced to 1).






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Post #: 85
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 8:49:24 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T12 south:

Dnepropetrovsk's defenders are forced to retreat and Zaporozhye is taken without any resistance.

The defenses at the Krim are fairly formidable, actually it might be difficult even for XXXIV Korps to break through here.

After being replaced by infantry XXXXVIII Panzer moves back for some rest as well as III Panzer while XIV Panzer takes a rest south of Kursk. With the whole of 1st Panzergruppe resting for now I plan to use them in my move to Stalino soon - Rostov is still on my target list, even if I will not be able to keep it during the winter.






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Post #: 86
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/5/2011 8:50:24 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T12 results:

27 units destroyed this turn, mainly from pockets feel OK, but next turn the crushing of the Leningrad pocket should start which should put a further dent into Soviet manpower.

They lost about 200k men last turn and about 2k guns while Germany lost about 4k men.

I am starting to build some fortifications this turn - first along the southern part of the Dnepr, but more will floow once I have cleared out some additional areas along rivers.

I am currently still thinking about where/if I should start moving my planes around Leningrad - basically I have no idea how long/well the defenders will be supplied by Leningrad itself and if I still need some planes around.

In the south I will probably move the airbases closer to Stalino.






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Post #: 87
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/6/2011 9:24:04 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T12 follow-up:

8 additional units surrendered - 84k men, 1.9k guns, 0.2 AFV.

Hermann Geyer is dismissed (6:5) and Kurt Chevallerie takes command of IX Korps which is actually a good deal.


T13 north:

Reduction of the Leningrad pocket is started, mainly using deliberate attacks vs. high defense units/fortifications while using hasty attacks for easier targets.

At the end Germany lost 11k men and 0.2k guns, while the Soviets lost 33 units with 246k men and 2.4k guns.

The Soviet front in the east is penetrated, I hope that this might cause them to move back since I want to gain some ground here fast in order to set up defensive positions for the winter.

At the Moscow front I start to slowly push east with some light fighting, some infantry divisions have already gotten within 80 miles.






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Post #: 88
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/6/2011 9:25:54 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T13 center:

West of Voronezh infantry starts to break up the Soviet line while the Romanian Cav Korps moves back for a little rest.

A couple of attacks are launched aroud Kaluga in order to start pushing the Soviets back behind the river (I want fortifications here).






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Post #: 89
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/6/2011 9:27:23 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T13 south:

With heavy bomber support the defenders of the Krim are forced to retreat from their fortified positions by XXXIV Korps.

XXXXVIII Panzer moves a bit south for its attack on Stalino next turn and XIV Panzer moves to the south as well.

Essentially all Romanian infantry units are withdrawn from to front to serve as security units in the rear, no need to waste them at the frontlines for the winter and I need to guard a lot of cities vs. partisans anyway.






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Post #: 90
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