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RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 6:21:11 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		According to the manual (p. 28), Challenging has all the game options set to 90 (you) / 110 (AI). What's nice is you can make your own custom difficulty level and change it on the fly, even mid-game. I just bumped the AI up to 110 in every category except Logistics in my game, though I left myself at 100. (I don't think you can click the "Challenging" option once you've started, but you can replicate it by changing the number in each game option.)

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Post #: 121
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 6:27:26 PM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		Great and simple AAR !!.i picked up a lot of tips from that thanks.. just trying to make my mind up which one to try first any suggestions guys?

(in reply to CharonJr)
Post #: 122
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 9:11:46 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T16 north:

The Soviets abandoned the salient and have moved south, pushing where I thought they would not push...

XXXXI and LVI Panzer are pulled back, this will be pure hell for mobile units soon.

A infantry line is established with me trying to get a Finnish unit in between each German one here. Fallback positions are prepared behind a line along the river Syas.

Next turn I will retreat into the line of heavy trees here as my first line of defense.

2 additional divisions are moved across the Neva in Leningrad.

Pavolo is taken by deliberate assault from 6 units across the Neva with additional units moving into this new opening.

In the end the Soviets are only holding NW Leningrad which should fall next turn and I start to move some divisions that participated in the assault to the SE.

Around Kalinin the pocket starts to be reduced with German troops falling back to Torzok and Kalinin.






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Post #: 123
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 9:12:57 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T16 center:

The Moscow pocket held, and in contrast to my expectations the attacks on the isolated units are working like the proverbial hot knife through the butter - with a few high resistance areas sprinkled in between.

Most armored units are replaced by infantry to the east of Moscow, some armor helps with reducing the pocket while heading back (supply and fuel is my problem with the mobile units, most have 100%+ ammo).






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Post #: 124
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 9:14:12 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T16 south:

Voronezh is encircled and together with the Don this will be my first line of defense here.

Voroshilovgrad is surrounded and I will try to form a first defensive line for the winter along Voronezh-Voroshilovgrad-Rostov.

Rostov is completely encircled now, too. The armor will be moved to the back on the next turn.

The first encircled fortification at the Krim is eliminated, the second one encircled this turn.

Due to the long way the MTNs have to take to the north by train I will only send the 2 German divisions by rail, the Hungarians will walk like the Romanians. Actually the Hungarians will stay right in the south.

XXXXVIII Panzer is pulled back to the north of Dnepropetrovk to wait for the mud close to a railhead.






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Post #: 125
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 9:15:39 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T16 results/misc:

This turn has been brutal on the Soviets, maybe this is the house of cards Hitler has been fantasising (is this a word? ;) )about.

The Soviets lost 138 units this turn (but more than 50% of those were sub-divisional units), 565k men, 5k guns and 0.7k AFVs with Germany again staying at turn 15 levels.

And there are still some units left who are trapped inside pockets.

Except for cleaning up the pockets this will be the end of my offenses for this season, I will try to establish some defensive lines next and shorten the front where it is needed wither due to the distance from a railhead or it is simply a waste of units to hold it.

The potential Soviet breakout in the north has me worried a bit, I will try to get additional units there ASAP, but have to leave enough troops around Moscow, too. When leningrad falls (hopefully next turn) the situation should improve. But till my freed up troops reach the line it might get a bit dicey.

11. Armee, 6. Armee and 1. Panzergruppe are assigned to Heeresgruppe A as is Luftflotte 4, XIII Korps gets assigned to 11. Armee and LII Korps to 6. Armee - hmm, which reminds me, Stalingrad should be somewhere to the east ;)

2. Armee is assigned to Heeresgruppe B and reinforced by XXIX Korps and LIII Korps, bringing Heeresgruppe Mitte (AGC) back into its command limit. 17. Armee is assigned to Heeresgruppe B, too and reinforced by IV and XVII Korps.






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Post #: 126
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 9:20:23 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Dang, I could only hope to grab Leningrad. I at turn 14 and have busted thru south of Novogord but not sure I can make lake Lagoda, much less get the Fins involved.

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Post #: 127
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 9:40:08 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garymiboy

Great and simple AAR !!.i picked up a lot of tips from that thanks.. just trying to make my mind up which one to try first any suggestions guys?


Road to Smolensk is a good start IMO, followed by Road to Leningrad.

CharonJr

(in reply to garymiboy)
Post #: 128
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 10:02:42 PM   
kevini1000

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 2/21/2010
Status: offline 		This has to be a very major victory for the Germans for the first year at war with Russia. But the Russian's should be able to build up there force levels a bit during the mud. They most likely be able to attack come the winter. You might have to do some more damage just to spoil there attacks possibly.

Sath

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Post #: 129
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 11:14:32 PM   
AKCLIMBER

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 11/22/2010
From: Juneau, Alaska
Status: offline 		Really enjoying your entertaining and educational AAR. Thanks! It's ARRs like yours that prompted me to give WitE a try. I'm a "real time" wargamer - Close Combat & BftB for the most part - haven't played a turn based game in over 20 years. Keep up the excellent work! Glad you decided to try for Moscow - no guts, no glory, after all! It'll be very interesting/entertaining to see how you make out during the mud and winter months. I'll be keeping a close watch on your game.

Thanks again & cheers!

(in reply to kevini1000)
Post #: 130
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/8/2011 11:44:14 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		That was a spectacular turn 16.

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Post #: 131
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 2:39:15 AM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Thx, but there might be some hard times ahead, from what I saw I will not be able to drive my railheads far enough east to get supplies to all of my frontline - center and south will be the main suffers (as BigAnorak correctly pointed out ahead of time).

But with the loses the Soviets have taken I cant really imagine them doing that much harm, but we will see. The 2-3 turns after the next one will get dicey.

CharonJr

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Post #: 132
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 3:07:39 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Always a temptation to push panzers as far as their MPs will allow them.

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Post #: 133
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 1:00:33 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Has anybody heard anything about some additional options to be integrated into the "rail view"?

After spending about 1 additional hour after having essentially completed my turn in thinking what my supply situation will be in what hex whe the mud arrives and making some adjustments. I think that having the option to simulate supply under different weather conditions would be helpful. You would still have to take into account your railheads progress and the terrain at the outskirts of your future line of supply, but it would be a great help to get a general idea about the situation and help with getting an idea about the range of supplies some turns in the future.

In addition with me currently playing the new turn I find myself basically making the same calculations all over again since I didnt take any notes yesterday. But IMO calcualtions/simulations like these are something were a computer has a huge advantage over a traditional boardgame and it would be nice to see something like this in the game.

Has anybody heard anything about something like this even, or is it even in the game already and I have simply missed it?

CharonJr

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Post #: 134
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 1:30:06 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I'm a bit betwixt and between on this idea, as historically the Axis did not have any idea what impact the bad weather would have on their already overstretched logistics system, and the game is already being played through the lens of hindsight.

The "brake" in this game is always going to be logistics - you may be able to find the ways and means to keep the AI off balance and achieve better than historical advances, but you still need the fuel and ammo to support those advances and should really be planning on staying within the logistics umbrella at all time.


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Post #: 135
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 2:05:55 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, but when a player realises that (to quote the manual's quote here) "Amateurs study tactics; Professionals study logistics", why bother him with the tedious task of manually calculating everything instead of using the advantage of computers to give him a hand here.

Which reminds me, when does the mud actually hit, before or after the players logistics phase? Or to directly ask the question I really am bothered about, will I need to put my HQs/units in their "mud positions" at the end of turn 17 or during turn 18?

CharonJr

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Post #: 136
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 4:17:03 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Just took a look at the manual again, the way I read it the weather will be changed before the supply phase, so essentially I would have to end my turn 17 in positions siutable for mud conditions, correct?

CharonJr

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Post #: 137
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 6:22:26 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Yes, Weather is the very first part of the logistics phase, so everything thereafter will be based on the weather determine in the weather phase.

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Post #: 138
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 6:57:01 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T17 north:

NW Leningrad is taken and the Finnish froces are freed up to attack.

XXVI Korps will garrison Leningrad and send back some its more usefull support units to its HQ, in addition its support level is lowered to 1.

XXXVIII Korps heads south to close the gap and with the rough hexes they occupy this should actually make decent defensive positions, too.

The first divisions of I and LI Korps from leningrad arrive and take XXXVIII's positions.

After some "bump and retreat" (hasty/deliberate attack(s) on the Soviet frontline, retreat to the defensive position) to the south of the Finnish border my units have mostly taken up their positions in the heavy woods line. Instead of stacking them seperately I think I will stack 1 Finnish with 1-2 German divisions here with 1 free hex between each stack.






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Post #: 139
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 6:58:21 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T17 center:

Moscow is attacked with the harder positions being hit first since I will have the best likelyhood to get decent support then.

3 armor and 2 infantry divisions (using deliberate attacks) manage to take W Moscow.

Next I have to attack all the remaining "minor stacks" in order to get additional troops into position for the remaining 2 major battles.

North Moscow is taken by deliberate assault from 4 infantry divisions with heavy air support, but I am running out of infantry and other units with enough MPs for deliberate attacks now, at least with not having to resort to cross river attacks.

But if my intel is right it should be the weakest stack, too, 2 divisions + 1 brigade. 2 infantry divisions and all the air support I can muster are everything I can throw at them, at least on paper I should have a chance, CV 20 vs CV 6 + a level 4 fort.

Modified combat odds were at 3:0 in the end, Moscow has fallen!

Most of the mobile forces (except those who participated in the attacks on Moscow) are moved west to avoid supply problems due to the mud.

Due to supply considerations I will form my first line of defense more to the west than previously planned. I try to incorporate some small town in order to make it easier for my troops during the blizzards.






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Post #: 140
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 6:59:14 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T17 south:

The frontline around Rostov is pulled back towards my lines of supply, using double stacks here with a tripple stack in Voroshilograd since it will be exposed to attacks from 3+ sides.

Due to lack of units I can only use single divisions on the frontline to the west of Kharkov, but those units will be bolstered by the Romanian MTNs.

The Italians head back towards the Krim.

The second (now isolated) fortified stack at the Krim is eliminated.

The 2 German mountain divisions are send on their long railway travel to the north and end right next to Brest-Litovsk for now.

Around Voronezh and Rostov my units will be out of supply/isolated for some turns, lets see if the Soviets have enough of a punch left to do anything about it.






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Post #: 141
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 7:02:03 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T17 results/misc:

I started to disband some AAA units here (read about it in another thread), but then decided to stop until I more fully understood the use/problems of this and the reasoning behind it.

With another 50 units and 130k men and 2.3k guns lost this turn the Soviets still seem to be headed down, but it looks like they got a large number of AFVs this turn (+500) - factories coming online again, lend-lease, reinforcements? - no idea here. German manpower is slightly up, but it looks like a fair number of my AVFs broke down after the fairly heavy strain they have been through during the last turns (maybe the Soviets stole them, this might explain their positive jump, too ;) ).

I am very anxious about he next few turns since I never have face any mud/snow/blizzards here before. That it will take me 2-3 turns before getting at least minimal supplies to my units does not help me to feel better, too.

My main comfort at the moment is that the Soviets are serverly hurt.






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RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 9:29:05 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		The Soviet side does not get a lot of lend lease tanks early in the game; the tank increase is probably a combo of factories and a few repaired ones.

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Post #: 143
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 9:33:53 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Just took a look at the turn results and I am a bit puzzled. Am I seeing this correctly that units need to be both in range of their HQs and the general supply grid?

I was under the impression that the units will draw supplies from their HQs, but I see HQs inside the supply grid range with their units in range of them (show up blue), but they are isolated anyway.

So they have to be in range of both, correct?

CharonJr

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 144
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 9:34:53 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		You may have killed enough units to leave the computer without enough units to form a filled out line.  Haven't seen another current AAR doing so well ( though other people may have harder game settings, who knows ).

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Post #: 145
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/9/2011 11:49:46 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T18 general:

My armor still tries to get to the raillines, but at the current speed it will take some of them a bit longer, with the situation in the south being worst.

Sinec not much is happening at the moment this will be 1 big report (if the screenshot's filesize will not turn out to be too large).

T18 north:

With the supply situation in the north being bearable I send FBD4 towards Smolensk, I need some support towards Moscow.

Due to the fairly good supply levels I will keep on bumping Soviet units at my frontline. In addition to costing them manpower which they are fairly short of at the moment it will prevent them from digging in deeply.

T18 center:

My MTNs arrive at Smolensk, now for the long walk to Moscow...

My first line of defense in front of Moscow is out of supplies due to the Soviet ZOCs, it will take some turns before FBD4 is in range to do something about this. But at least the automated repair units are working around Smolensk.

I am still debating with myself if I should try to "bump" the Soviets with my low supply units, too, but in the end I thikn I will just try to hold the line with them for now.


T18 south:

Due to obviously both the HQs AND their units having to be in range of the supply grid I am seeing far more red here than anticipated. But likely due to the low overall Soviet force levels he is not in contact with most of my troops at the moment and the supply situation should improve with my railheads getting closer to the front.


T18 results/misc:

I think I finally understood about disbanding the AAA, only the companies should be disbanded since they are too small and their place could be taken by more useful support units. And it seems like we can't disband support units from HQs that are not fully integrated into the supply grid.

My armor still far away from the supply grid get some air drops and the unsupplied units in key areas (Moscow, Rostov) get supplies.

450t were dropped on Rostov, bringing their supply levels up to 63%. Well, we are doing better than Göring here who only was able to drop about 300t (at first, and of 600t needed) at Stalingrad - but then again, those were daily drops ;)

With barely any battles (the casualties are from by "bump" attacks) the Soviets start to rebound.






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Post #: 146
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/10/2011 10:22:30 AM   
Magnum88

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		I had similiar problems down south with being too successful before the mud hit. I have decided it is better to slow the drive east to Rostov and send more forces into the Crimea quickly to try to take Sevastopol before the mud. If you can, I think the Black Sea ports there will provide port supplies and allow you not to go isolated on the peninsula. Otherwise, Sevastopol's port will prevent you from using any port within 15 hexes and as you have found out your forces will be isolated there completely stopping their advance for 4 turns. I'll wait for the snow and the railheads to move up to do the drive to Rostov.

(in reply to CharonJr)
Post #: 147
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/10/2011 8:26:39 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, had I known that the situation would be this bad I would have focused more on keeping my lines of supply much shorter - including taking Sevastopol.

My supply trucks are getting massacred here and I doubt I will be able to advance at all during this winter season, so for any further progress will be stopped till after the mud hits again during next spring. Unless my railheads are able to dramatiaclly improve my motor pool situation by then, but I doubt it and will most likely rather try to build up a small surplus pool there.

But this is a valueable learning experience.

Now to see if the Soviets are able to punish me for this or if their earlier loses in manpower, material and production capability (most likely mainly manpower) will keep them in line.

CharonJr

(in reply to Magnum88)
Post #: 148
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/10/2011 9:29:41 PM   
kevini1000

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 2/21/2010
Status: offline 		I know there is a thread concerning the Crimea. It might be a good idea to secure the Crimea if you can pre Blizzard. If this will help improve supply in the area. Plus the Crimea should be a fairly safe resting place/diffcult for the Russian to conduct operation if Sevastopol is also captured. I kind of wonder if the Weather in the Crimea was as historically bad as the rest of Russian in December 1941 through Feburary 1942.

Sath

(in reply to CharonJr)
Post #: 149
RE: German 1941 GC - normal - 1/10/2011 10:05:46 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		T18 follow-up:

To ease the burden on my line of supply I am moving a number of divisions back towards the west along the whole front - no more double stacks except for really crucial positions. If the Soviets do attack those units are close enough to rush to the defense, but should use up less of my precious motor pool.

Whereever possible mobile forces will sit right on the raillines and I set my security divisions (and all other units guarding cities far behind the front) to static mode.

The northern front will be held completely by Finnish forces.


T19:

Despite trying to shorten my lines of supply I lost 4.2k trucks this turn (over the previous 18 turns I only lost 21.2k).

FBD4 arrives to the east of Smolensk and is even able to repair 1 hex towards Moscow.

260t of supply are dropped at Voronezh, another 200t at the units to the east of Moscow and 414t at Rostov. In addition about 400t of fuel are dropped at the 2 armored divisions to the west of Moscow that are still struggeling to reach their units.

At the Krim 2 Soviet divisions were forced to retreat, but I cant follow them since this would put my units completly out of supply and would isolate them. But there is a bunch of automated repair units around Nikolaev which should hopefully improve the situation soon.

Other than a few bump attacks costing 2.9k Soviets and 110 Germans there life nothing else happened during this turn.

(in reply to kevini1000)
Post #: 150
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