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RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/30/2010 11:05:48 PM   
jomni


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quote:

HPS games are equally, if not more involved, and they never go for more than 50 bucks.


Do you realize that if you buy all East Front Campaign games from HPS, it will be 7 games at $50 a pop?
WITE covers all these theaters at considerably less the price.

Well board wargames are even more expensive and you don't get the convenience of auto calculation, rules interpretation and keeping, fog of war, AI, online play. And there are still people who collect them. Just putting things into perspective.

< Message edited by jomni -- 12/30/2010 11:08:22 PM >

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Post #: 31
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/30/2010 11:10:51 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

1998 I paid $79 for Legend of Zelda for N64. Who remembers how much Space Invaders was for Atari?


I remember the old Electronics Boutiques before they were taken over my Gamestop.
It was my 11th birthday in 1995 (yeah I am one of the young ones around here) and Chrono Trigger had been out for a few months. It was still one of the big time releases of the year and was still prominently displayed in stores.
I had something like 50 in birthday money and I saw the game. The shop person talked it up and made me want it but I didn't have enough money. It was $79 I begged for an advance on some money if I could do chores at a later date. My parents relented and let me have the extra 35 It was several weeks worth of things like vaccuming, doing laundry for the entire family and that summer we added a deck onto our house and my father was do it yourselfer. I hauled enough lumber that year to build a dozen first rates.
Anyways....
It was completely worth it. Sure the game was probably overpriced. But it is still one of my favorites to this day and had the best story of any game I played.

Some things are worth the 'luxury expense'
I have not played WitE (that is going to change soon) but like WITP and AE they are labors of love and are worth the extra little bit of coin.

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Post #: 32
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/30/2010 11:12:58 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

HPS games are equally, if not more involved, and they never go for more than 50 bucks.


Do you realize that if you buy all East Front Campaign games from HPS, it will be 7 games at $50 a pop?
WITE covers all these theaters at considerably less the price.


I agree, though PzC is a completely different scale. Playing Moscow '41 in Panzer Campaigns and War in the East is a completely different experience on their own. Of which I don't see why the OP brought up HPS games comparison in the first place. They are completely different games.


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Post #: 33
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/30/2010 11:23:28 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
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From: Corona, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Why is he a troll? He just gave his opinion, and because you guys don't agree, he's a troll! For what it's worth, $90 is alot for a game, no matter how you guys rationalize it. For cryin out loud, let people give their opinions!


Voicing opinions are fine, it's when the person is making ludicrous and bold statements he knows nothing about. Claiming a company is gouging is pretty bold statement that needs some backing with evidence.

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Post #: 34
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/30/2010 11:41:08 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Started my gaming career with adventures from Sierra and LucasArts, at a time when pc titles were still exotic between amiga and atari shelves. Everything got imported from the US and the average price was DM 120,-, the equivalent of $80,- (DM was our currency before we got the dreaded Euro).

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Post #: 35
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/30/2010 11:59:45 PM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffward

Your analogy is off. What I'm semi-saying is, if you're gonna gouge me I'll take my business elsewhere.



I guess I'll by some McDonald's stock.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffward
What I'm semi-saying is, if you're gonna gouge me I'll take my business elsewhere.




But you can't because there is nothing eqivalent anywhere !

=




Exactly!!! You only get what you pay for. I've bought BFTB, WITE and WITP AE and all are top shelf games and worth the price IMHO.


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffward

Yeah guys! And what most (not all) of you are missing is that, while trying not to be nearly as absurdly belligerent as some of you (ain't Internet anonymity grand!), IT'S MY OPINION that $90 crossed the line. IT'S MY PERCEPTION that that price point - even for one game - makes Matrix games less appealing.

And before you start with Economics 101 again, I've invented a product I've made a living off that product, I have an online business and have been self employed for the last 25 years. Rest assured I understand what it takes to make a profit.



Obviously you want the game or you wouldn't be making such an effort complaining about the cost. You don't see me on some HPS site complaining about dated graphics because I don't care. I do own and enjoy Naval Battles Guadalcanal, however.

I wish i had a quarter for everyone that has complained about prices here stating they own and run a business. Free games for everyone if I would ever get that windfall.



< Message edited by SuluSea -- 12/31/2010 12:15:07 AM >

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Post #: 36
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 12:10:59 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I surprised pc wargames have stayed around the same price,WiR went for $80 back in the 80's.If you dont like the price,wait 10-15 years and get it when its reduced

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Post #: 37
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 12:18:11 AM   
diablo1

 

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Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

If you dont like the price,wait 10-15 years and get it when its reduced


Don't have to wait that long it will be reduced next christmas or perhaps even in july when Matrix has their christmas in july sale.

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Post #: 38
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 12:21:29 AM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

HPS games are equally, if not more involved, and they never go for more than 50 bucks.


Do you realize that if you buy all East Front Campaign games from HPS, it will be 7 games at $50 a pop?
WITE covers all these theaters at considerably less the price.

Well board wargames are even more expensive and you don't get the convenience of auto calculation, rules interpretation and keeping, fog of war, AI, online play. And there are still people who collect them. Just putting things into perspective.


Very true...WiTE cost me a about 80 bucks(NWS) but I also dropped 100 bucks on DAK2 and

another 90 on DAK...Boardgames are very expensive these days even moreso than pc wargames...

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 12/31/2010 12:24:16 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 12:26:09 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Why is he a troll? He just gave his opinion, and because you guys don't agree, he's a troll! For what it's worth, $90 is alot for a game, no matter how you guys rationalize it. For cryin out loud, let people give their opinions!

Warspite1

Please read the posts VonRocko. He is not a troll for voicing an opinion; he gave his opinion, and others politely gave theirs - and those largely did not agree with his.

That having been done, he then spat back a lot of mindless nonesense (see post 14 (I can't be bothered to repeat it)) that was designed to get an argument going - as was I believe, the original intention - although that was not clear until post 14.

Yes, $90 may be a lot for a game, or it may not depending on your point of view, but that should be debated in a civilised manner.

Sorry V22 Osprey - I should read the posts too . I have just said in a long winded way what you said a few posts earlier - apologies.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/31/2010 12:29:11 AM >

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RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 2:03:18 AM   
E

 

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Joined: 9/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffward

Your analogy is off. What I'm semi-saying is, if you're gonna gouge me I'll take my business elsewhere.


Actually, I think it was right on the money (pun intended). But you're perfectly right in that if you don't want the Cadillac, you are very free to bypass all GM products. There are always used Yugos for sale.

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Post #: 41
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 3:18:19 AM   
goodwoodrw


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Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Why is he a troll? He just gave his opinion, and because you guys don't agree, he's a troll! For what it's worth, $90 is alot for a game, no matter how you guys rationalize it. For cryin out loud, let people give their opinions!


Yea I agree, one mans opinion, isn't trolling, it appears if we speak out against any Grigsby title, the person is a troll. Sadly GG is not god and there is room for improvement in all his games, and we all have the right to make comment on any of Matrix games on this forum and the moderators respect all opinions for and against. On another very well known forum, from a company that mass produces games by the dray load,if make what they consider adverse comment, see how long it lasts, and see if the poster is banned or not. The reason life is so good at this forum is the developers associated with matrix actually listen to all negative and positive posts and adjust accordingly. A good example of forum power is the adjustments to pricing of the WItPE product when it was first announced.
Ron

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Post #: 42
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 3:22:25 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

I remember when wargames first came out.  Strategic Simulations was the first and only publisher for the first few years starting in 1980 or 81.  Games were on 5 1/4 floppies, had horrible graphics and not much to them.  Ram and storage space was minimal so what did you expect?  Anyhow, they cost $60 in 1980 dollars.  How much would that be today?  I won't be buying WitE because it's not my kind of game but after paying $60 for several games (you're welcome Joel), $90 is a real bargain imo.


In the early '80s SSI games were generally $40 & $60 list price. Mail order I consistently bought them for $27 & $40 respectively. A couple were higher. War In Russia (1984) was $80 list but I bought it for $60. All told I purchased at least 35 SSI games for the Apple & Atari. However, SSI had one thing that you don't see much nowadays - every game was backed with a "satisfaction guarantee" or your money back.

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 12/31/2010 3:30:28 AM >

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Post #: 43
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 3:36:55 AM   
ilovestrategy


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Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Why is he a troll? He just gave his opinion, and because you guys don't agree, he's a troll! For what it's worth, $90 is alot for a game, no matter how you guys rationalize it. For cryin out loud, let people give their opinions!



It's true. $90 is a lot for a game and there is no way I would ever spend that much on one. But why the temper tantrum that he is throwing? Matrix has a ton of affordable games.

2010 I bought Distant Worlds and Storm over the Pacific. If I go to a resturant and the most expensive plate is beyond my finances I get a cheaper one.

There is no reason to throw a hissy fit because 2 or 3 games out of the ENTIRE library is over $60. He came out mean after people started not agreeing with him. That;s more than him giving his opinion.

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Post #: 44
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 4:12:51 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		It seems the time for control of the PC gaming industry has come. All modern nations should add a Cabinet level Director of PC Gaming. This clearly needs to be done to assure fair pricing so all gamers can enjoy games with equal opportunity.

Of course, the new position would be meaningless without an appropriately sized administration. As few nations could afford such a new heavy burden at this time, a special one time tax on all PC game publishers could be applied as soon as possible. To gain the funds necessary, this tax should be made retroactive for 5 years. Again, this would be done only once-any more than that would not be fair.

The new government department would be charged with insuring proper pricing based on game content. Each game would have be be tested to determine which price group it could be allowed to join. Further, it would need to be established that a particular game was actually worth much more that the average game. In these special cases games would have a special grognard levy. This added fee, which should not exceed 50% of the games agreed price will be necessary to fund expansion of the department of PC Gaming to better insure accurate pricing of all new and re-released games.

It should be a goal of the new department to attain a surplus in revenues within 5 years to enable the purchase of the most expensive games for anyone who may want it, but does not feel they should have to pay for it-as it is too expensive-this is only fair.

It does not seem fair that PC game publishers should be forced to fund this entire new service. Game developers should also pay their fair share. Perhaps some sort of value added tax should be applied as each game changes from alpha, to beta and thence to finished product. After all, the investment is really quite minimal, while vastly increasing the value of the proposed product. Of course, the publisher should also be charged with the value added tax as son as the new game receives its publishers logo.

With this approach all gamers will be happy. I know I will.

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Post #: 45
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 4:23:10 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Why is he a troll? He just gave his opinion, and because you guys don't agree, he's a troll! For what it's worth, $90 is alot for a game, no matter how you guys rationalize it. For cryin out loud, let people give their opinions!


Troll does seem a bit harsh. $90 is a lot for a game. I'm still on the fence over WitE because of the price. However, if I were more sure of whether I will like the game or not, I would buy. Heck I think I jumped on WitP for close to $80 and never had a regret over it. It sounds like WitE may not be quite the game the OP is looking for. If you are that unsure, I'd wait for a while and maybe the price will come down if it goes on sale.

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Post #: 46
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 4:35:17 AM   
Vasquez


Posts: 441
Joined: 12/29/2000
From: München, Bayern, Deutschland
Status: offline 		$90 for a computer wargame is a lot yes. But for WiTE it is not.

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Post #: 47
RE: A $90 computer wargame? - 12/31/2010 4:44:33 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		The price thread for WITE is here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2629351&mpage=9

Locking this one up.

Regards,

- Erik


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