Slitherine

quote:

Identical consumption, but over 30% difference in supply received, and huge difference to divisions 5-6 hexes away, even though off rail MP is similar and both HQ's have ample dumps.

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Identical consumption, but over 30% difference in supply received, and huge difference to divisions 5-6 hexes away, even though off rail MP is similar and both HQ's have ample dumps.

There is no huge difference:

- Supply and ammo received as single entity. So you should add them both to compare 74+42=116 vs 102+35=137.
- 57th ID had less supplies on hand and was asking more 43% vs 57%. At the same time there was more ammo need for the 168th ID so it got more ammo and less supplies.
- Another small factor that supplies are stores in lbs at unit level and then converting to tons, so 1 -> 2000-3999. Sometimes rounding can bring quite a big discrepancy especially when dealing with low volumes.

So far I see nothing off from those screenshots. Of cause they provide just partial situation, so if you suspect something is wrong post it on tech forum with saves.

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- if HQ can not draw enough to cover entire demand, it's gives up it's dumps to cover the shortfall to it's units

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I also don't understand why Korps in similare circumstances have such dissimilar deliveries:

Lets look at Post 26-27:

ample dumps, off Rail MP a bit more than the above example

Div 299 @40%/106% demand is 0.6*174 = 104 -----> delivery of 42 ca. 40%
Div 125 @41%/96% demand is 0.59*211 + 0.04*518= 145 -----> delivery of 26 ca. 18%
Div 111 @58%/71% demand is 0.42*168 + 0.29*448= 200 -----> delivery of 66 ca. 33%

This is an HQ which had hundreds of dumps, and increased it's No. of dumps the next turn, yet units seem to be only be receiving 20-40% of requested amount. Off Rail MP and Axis Supply modifier aren't that bad, and even if those factors are responsible, Dumps should be making up the difference.

What factor am I missing?

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

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- if HQ can not draw enough to cover entire demand, it's gives up it's dumps to cover the shortfall to it's units

No, HQ tries to draw = demands - current dumps in HQ. HQ is supplying units from the dumps only, the supplies it draws goes to the dumps.

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ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

There is a date and distance modifier that may not be shown on the supply screen - one of the developers will have to confirm whether it is or isn't. As it only applies to 1941, I have assumed that it is applied "off screen" but we all not what "assume" did.

From the manual.

20.4.3.2. AXIS RAIL SUPPLY MODIFIER
There is a modifier that is applied to the delivery of supply to Axis HQ units and combat
units based on the date and the location of the unit that is tracing supply. The modifier, once
calculated, is multiplied times the supplies and fuel being delivered to the unit. The modifier is
equal to ((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0. The weather adjustment is equal to
1 in clear weather, 2 in mud or snow, and 3 in blizzard. So as an example, A unit in Smolensk
(X86, Y51)) in August 1941 in clear weather will have its fuel/supplies deliveries multiplied
by ((168+((0)/1)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or 73/100 or .73. So due to this rule, the delivery
of supplies and fuel to the unit in Smolensk would be reduced to only 73 percent of what
they otherwise would have been. In March 1942 in snow weather, the same unit would be
reduced by ((168+ (3x5)/2)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or .80. This modifier is in addition to other
reductions. This modifier never applies to any unit in a hex with a Y coordinate less than 12.

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ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

Repsol and Bjmorgan, thank you. I have always had trouble comprehending supply in these games. I tried to reconcile the numbers and they just didn't add up. I could never tell if I had sufficient supply or if I was in serious trouble. I have WiTP and some of the competition's games and it seems like the labels they use change from form to form. So it is hard to relate what you are seeing to what they are trying to tell you.
At any rate, I would like to try this game and if what you say would work for me, as far as not delving too depely into supply, then I could concentrate on tactics. It would be very useful if they were consistent in labeling fields(or calculations) from one form to another.
Another thing that worries me is rail repair. That also sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
Thanks again.

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ORIGINAL: BASB

Another issue that's missing from the supply mechanics is prioritisation, there be a mechanism that allows the player to push supply towards HQ and combat units that have a greater need depending tasks. Hq units should assign low, medium or high priority designations to regulate the flow of supplies.

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ORIGINAL: MechFO

how much supply do units actually try to draw?


How do they try to build up depleted unit stocks. I have Pz/Mot units near Kiev with an off-rail MP of 25, stationary for 3 turns, ample HQ dumps (150+S, 100+F), but hardly recovering any of their supply stockpile. Current needs are JUST being met with sometimes a small surplus going to unit stocks. The HQ is depleting it's Supply Dumps, but very slowly (150->100 in 3 turn).

Another example has adjacent Inf Divs with the same HQ, 190 S dumps, getting supply deliveries as divergent as 30 and 50. (Off rail MP 30)

20.4.3.2. AXIS RAIL SUPPLY MODIFIER
There is a modifier that is applied to the delivery of supply to Axis HQ units and combat
units based on the date and the location of the unit that is tracing supply. The modifier, once
calculated, is multiplied times the supplies and fuel being delivered to the unit. The modifier is
equal to ((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0. The weather adjustment is equal to
1 in clear weather, 2 in mud or snow, and 3 in blizzard. So as an example, A unit in Smolensk
(X86, Y51)) in August 1941 in clear weather will have its fuel/supplies deliveries multiplied
by ((168+((0)/1)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or 73/100 or .73. So due to this rule, the delivery
of supplies and fuel to the unit in Smolensk would be reduced to only 73 percent of what
they otherwise would have been. In March 1942 in snow weather, the same unit would be
reduced by ((168+ (3x5)/2)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or .80. This modifier is in addition to other
reductions. This modifier never applies to any unit in a hex with a Y coordinate less than 12.

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T1: dumps are 100, total demand is 60, then it will draw 0 while it passes on the 60 from it's dumps?

T2: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while it passes on 40 to it's units?

T3: dumps are 20, demand is 60, draw will be 40 while 20 goes to units?

T3: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while 40 goes to units?

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

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ORIGINAL: BASB

Another issue that's missing from the supply mechanics is prioritisation, there be a mechanism that allows the player to push supply towards HQ and combat units that have a greater need depending tasks. Hq units should assign low, medium or high priority designations to regulate the flow of supplies.

That would certainly be handy. Unless refit already handles that for you. But i think that just priorities replacements not supply.

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ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

I stopped tring to figure out how Gary thinks, that guy is on an entire different plane of thinking...

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As i understand MechFOs example...One question comes to mind:
Does the HQs recieve their reguested supplies (phase 2 (rail)) before the combat units (phase 1) try to draw their needed supplies from the HQs dumps ?

If not...The result would be like in MechFOs example...Is this how it works ?

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ORIGINAL: el hefe

Let me put it to you this way. I love this game and I play it a lot. I am not a micromanager and I absolutely do not get wound up trying to figure out formulas. I don't even mess with them. I look at my units and they are short on supply. I don't spend hours figuring out how to maximize my supply situation. I take a quick look at the map and accept that my units are well ahead of the railhead and make adjustments.

Rail repair is as simple as having four main rail repair units. I manually move and repair with these four units on the main supply routes. I don't get wound up about all of the dozens of construction battalions that are run by the AI. Let them do their own thing. I concentrate on the operations without getting tied down to the minutae. I got better things to do than try to figure out how the AI calculates x tonnage of supply.

Trey