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RE: Civil War 150th - 6/25/2011 3:45:39 AM   
NefariousKoel


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The war kicked off in my home state quite early; sympathies were very split, and heated. There's a lot that happened before any big hostilities started and, of course, there was much "partisan" conflict during and after the war.

This is a very interesting read on the "Camp Jackson Affair" and the "St. Louis Massacre". General Lyon and the Union forces definitely meant business.

quote:

The Camp Jackson Affair was an incident of civil unrest in the American Civil War on May 10, 1861, when Union military forces clashed with civilians on the streets of St. Louis, Missouri, resulting in the deaths of at least 28 people and injuries to another 100. The highly publicized affair polarized the border state of Missouri, leading some citizens to advocate secession and others to support the Union, thus setting the stage for sustained violence between the opposing factions.


quote:

In March 1861 the Missouri Constitutional Convention of 1861 voted 98 to 1 to stay in the Union but not supply weapons or men to either side if war broke out. The security of a large munitions depot became an immediate flash point. On April 20, 1861, eight days after the start of the war at Fort Sumter, a pro-Confederate mob at Liberty, Missouri, seized the Liberty Arsenal and made off with about 1,000 rifles and muskets. This set the stage for fears that Confederates would also seize the much larger St. Louis Arsenal, which had nearly 40,000 rifles and muskets—the most of any slave state.

The January-April 1861 period was a period of furious military organization in Missouri. Pro-secessionists established Minutemen para-military groups, usually with the overt support of state authorities. In February 1861, the St. Louis area Minutemen were enrolled in the Missouri Volunteer Militia by Brigadier General Daniel Frost as companies in a new Second Regiment, MVM. Unionist activists were forced to organize in secret, as a February 1861 Missouri state law banned any militia activity outside the framework of the MVM.

On April 23, 1861, on orders of the War Department, Union Captain Nathaniel Lyon temporarily replaced Brigadier General William S. Harney as (acting) Commander of the U.S. Army's Western Department. Lyon also began enlisting and arming St. Louis Unionist volunteer, an action previously ordered by the Secretary of War, but not acted on by General Harney. The majority of Lyon's early recruit's were German immigrants and members of the Wide Awakes political organization. According to one estimate, 80% of the volunteers in the first Missouri Volunteer regiments were Germans.[1] The Germans in particular were unpopular with many native-born Missourians with Southern backgrounds, who deeply resented their anti-slavery views.

On the orders of the War Department, in the early morning hours of April 26, U.S. Regulars, Illinois state troops, and Missouri volunteers loaded 21,000 of the Arsenal's 39,000 weapons on the steamer City of Alton, which carried them across the river to Illinois.

Around May 1, Missouri Governor Claiborne Fox Jackson, who had been elected on the ticket of the (Unionist) Douglas faction of the Democratic party, but privately supported secession, called out the Missouri Volunteer Militia for "maneuvers" about 4.5 miles northwest of the arsenal at Lindell's Grove (the current campus of St. Louis University on Lindell Boulevard), then outside the city of St. Louis, at an encampment christened "Camp Jackson" by the militiamen

Previously in mid-April 1861, Governor Jackson had sent two pro-secessionist militia officers (Colton Green and Basil Wilson Duke) to Confederate President Jefferson Davis, with a letter asking for heavy artillery with which to attack the St. Louis Arsenal.[2] On May 9, the steamer 'J.C. Swon' delivered the Confederate aid: two 12 pound Howitzers; two 32 pound siege guns; five hundred muskets; and ammunition in crates marked as Tamoroa marble. The munitions had been captured by the Confederates when they seized the Federal arsenal at Baton Rouge. MVM officers met the shipment at the St. Louis riverfront, and transported it to Camp Jackson, six miles inland.[3]


quote:

The Conflict
Based on the presence of the "stolen" U.S. artillery, and strong evidence of state militia conspiracy against the U.S. government, on May 10, Lyon marched on Camp Jackson with approximately 6,000 Federally enrolled Missouri Volunteers and U.S. Regulars, and forced the surrender of 669 members of the Missouri Volunteer Militia under General Daniel M. Frost. The militiamen refused to take the oath of allegiance to the Federal government. As a result, Lyon decided to place them under arrest and march the militia to the arsenal through downtown St. Louis before providing them with a parole and ordering them to disperse. This lengthy march was widely viewed as a public humiliation for the state forces, and angered citizens who had gathered to watch the commotion.

Tensions quickly mounted on the streets as civilians hurled rocks, paving stones, and insults at Lyon's troops. The heavily German Missouri Volunteer units were particularly targeted by the mob and shouts of "Damn the Dutch" were hurled at them from the crowd.[4] Exactly what provoked the shooting remains unclear, but the most common explanation is that a drunkard stumbled into the path of the marching soldiers, and fired a pistol into their ranks, fatally wounding Captain Constantin Blandowski of the Third Missouri Volunteers.[5] The volunteers, in reaction, fired over the heads of...and then into.... the crowd, killing some 28 people, some of whom were women and children, and wounding as many as 50 more.

The incident sparked several days of rioting and anti-German animosity in St. Louis. On May 11, another incident occurring at the intersection of 5th and Walnut streets saw German Volunteers fired at from windows and once again return fire into the mob. Col. Henry Boernstein, publisher of the Anzeiger des Westens a prominent German Language newspaper in St. Louis and commander of the 2nd Regiment of Missouri Volunteers, remarked in his memoirs that he gave several of his men leave to visit their families on the morning of May 11 and that, “Most of them did not return…until it grew dark, with clothing torn, faces beaten bloody, and all the signs of having suffered mistreatment…Two of them never returned and they were never heard of again.”[6]

Rumors spread throughout the city that the Germans were planning to murder the American population of the city which caused many of the wealthy citizens of St. Louis to flee to either Illinois or the Missouri Interior.

Eventually the installation of martial law and the arrival of Federal Regulars to relieve the German volunteers would bring the situation to a conclusion but the impact of the Camp Jackson Affair left its mark on St. Louis permanently.


Continued...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Massacre

The wiki is chock full of info on it. Good read.


< Message edited by NefariousKoel -- 6/25/2011 3:47:50 AM >


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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/2/2011 5:30:08 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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Early July, 1861 -- Nathaniel Lyon continued his pursuit of Governor Claiborne Jackson and the State Guard troops through Missouri. This may not have been wise, for Lyon had to march further and further away from his base at St. Louis. He continued to receive reinforcements, however, since he could now draw recruits from larger and larger areas of the state.

But not as fast as Jackson. Militia from Arkansas, and some regulars from the growing army of the Confederacy, came over the state line in south-west Missouri. The small Confederate army was transforming into a good-sized one, and one with trained officers and men.

The news of Benjamin Butler's "contraband" policy had spread from mouth to mouth among the slave community, and now slaves were escaping by ones and twos, and then by dozens, across Union lines. At first, most of them were not welcomed. In some cases the Union commanders returned them to their owners, in others they were kept in the camps as prisoners. But soon the Northern soldiers realized they now had a ready source of labor for what camp followers had been doing for centuries: cooking, washing and mending clothes, fetching water and firewood, etc. The runaways were willing to work for very little money--sometimes for rations and a tent above their heads. A decision was going to have to made as to what official Union policy would be.

Of course, the main event was northern Virginia. General Irvin McDowell now had an army approaching 35,000 men. This was larger than any single force the Confederates had at that time, but not larger than their forces in Virginia combined. Still, if McDowell could destroy the main blocking force under General P. G. T. Beauregard (the same from the reduction of Fort Sumter) camped at Manassas Junction, the way to Richmond would be open. McDowell was keenly aware that much of his force was not yet trained, and he wanted more time. But it was also true that the rebels were busy training as well, and at the end of July the enlistments of most of McDowell's 90-day soldiers would be up. Time did not seem to be on the side of the North -- if they did nothing, then the South would for practical purposes have its independence.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/2/2011 12:28:32 PM   
Yogi the Great


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Welcome Back! Nice to see the posts again.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/2/2011 11:00:54 PM   
ilovestrategy


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Capt. Harlock has returned! I live for these posts because they have so many small details I knew nothing about.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/2/2011 11:42:09 PM   
parusski


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I was suffering from withdrawal.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/2/2011 11:59:16 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

As part of the plan to march to Richmond, General Robert Patterson took his troops across the Potomac River to advance on the Confederates at Harpers Ferry. He ran into a smaller force at a place called Hoke's Run. But this brigade of rebels was commanded by Colonel Thomas Jackson, and they gave as good as they got before retiring. More, the southerners had cavalry commanded by one James Ewell Brown Stuart (AKA "Jeb"), who showed the dash that he would frequently display during the Civil War by sweeping his command around a flank and capturing a number of Union soldiers.

Final casualties were: Union 10 killed, 18 wounded and 50 captured, Conferates 11 wounded and around 10 captured.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/3/2011 12:04:33 AM >


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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/3/2011 8:00:01 AM   
ilovestrategy


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The amount of casualties in a short time never ceases to amaze me.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/3/2011 7:34:13 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

I was suffering from withdrawal.


Yes, sorry about that. Alas, there was very little in the way of combat between June 17 and July 2, 1861. Be it confessed that I missed the skirmish at Cole Camp, Missouri, on June 19, between smaller detachments of the Union and Confederate armies. I got complacent, as well -- you'll note I came in just under the wire for July 2 for the Battle of Hoke's Run. Happily, there was action in July 1861, including Bull Run or First Manassas. Posts will be more frequent.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/3/2011 9:56:31 PM >


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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/3/2011 11:32:09 PM   
ilovestrategy


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I like your sentence " Happily there was action in July 1961".

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/4/2011 12:48:07 AM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I like your sentence " Happily there was action in July 1961".


LOL, I had the same chuckle.

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"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

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Post #: 160
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/4/2011 5:21:41 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

The second part of Lincoln's proclamation after Fort Sumter now came into effect: a special session of Congress. To pay for the war, among other things, he knew that extraordinary measures would have to be passed, and so he had chosen an emotionally powerful date. He gave a speech to urge the emergency legislation, (though he left out the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus), for once referring to himself in the third person, and concluding:


This is essentially a People's contest. On the side of the Union, it is a struggle for maintaining in the world, that form, and substance of government, whose leading object is, to elevate the condition of men---to lift artificial weights from all shoulders---to clear the paths of laudable pursuit for all---to afford all, an unfettered start, and a fair chance, in the race of life. Yielding to partial, and temporary departures, from necessity, this is the leading object of the government for whose existence we contend.

[...]

He desires to preserve the government, that it may be administered for all, as it was administered by the men who made it. Loyal citizens everywhere, have the right to claim this of their government; and the government has no right to withhold, or neglect it. It is not perceived that, in giving it, there is any coercion, any conquest, or any subjugation, in any just sense of those terms.

It was with the deepest regret that the Executive found the duty of employing the war-power, in defence of the government, forced upon him. He could but perform this duty, or surrender the existence of the government. No compromise, by public servants, could, in this case, be a cure; not that compromises are not often proper, but that no popular government can long survive a marked precedent, that those who carry an election, can only save the government from immediate destruction, by giving up the main point, upon which the people gave the election. The people themselves, and not their servants, can safely reverse their own deliberate decisions. As a private citizen, the Executive could not have consented that these institutions shall perish; much less could he, in betrayal of so vast, and so sacred a trust, as these free people had confided to him. He felt that he had no moral right to shrink; nor even to count the chances of his own life, in what might follow. In full view of his great responsibility, he has, so far, done what he has deemed his duty. You will now, according to your own judgment, perform yours. He sincerely hopes that your views, and your action, may so accord with his, as to assure all faithful citizens, who have been disturbed in their rights, of a certain, and speedy restoration to them, under the Constitution, and the laws.

And having thus chosen our course, without guile, and with pure purpose, let us renew our trust in God, and go forward without fear, and with manly hearts.


The full text of the speech can be found at:
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=1063

An interesting note for Independence Day: a number of people in the South referred to the struggle as "The Second American Revolution". Thus, the Confederates did not generally object to the term "rebels", considering it as honorable as when it had been applied to the men of the "first" revolution. In May, a New Orleans poet had written:

Yes, call them rebels! 'tis the name
Their patriot fathers bore,
And by such deeds they'll hallow it,
As they have done before.


< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/4/2011 5:34:51 PM >

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/4/2011 5:27:32 PM   
parusski


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When I read the speeches/declarations during the war I am humbled by the beautiful use of the English language. Would that politicians employ such words today.

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"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/5/2011 5:13:58 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

In Missouri, Nathaniel Lyon was having problems supplying his army, so an advance force of about 1,100 men was sent forward under Colonel Franz Sigel to continue the pursuit of Governor Claiborne Fox Jackson and his State Guard. Unfortunately, Sterling Price had recovered from his illness and joined up with Governor Jackson, bringing their combined troops to about 6,000 men. (But 2,000 of them had no weapons.) The Union and Confederate forces clashed at a point ten miles north of Carthage, Missouri, in what is called either the Battle of Carthage or Dry Fork.

Sigel opened with his artillery, but though the rebels were not as well equipped, Jackson replied with a few cannons of his own. Skirmishing broke out as the Union infantry moved forward. But then Sigel spotted a good-sized enemy force (the unarmed recruits) on his left flank, and ordered a retreat. The Confederates pursued, but Sigel managed a successful rearguard action and reached the town of Carthage with his troops in good order. Casualties were fairly light: 13 Union men killed and 31 wounded against 12 Conederate killed, 64 wounded, 1 missing. The battle marks the only time a sitting U.S. State Governor has led troops in the field.


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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/5/2011 1:53:33 PM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

When I read the speeches/declarations during the war I am humbled by the beautiful use of the English language. Would that politicians employ such words today.


You know, I was thinking the same thing while reading that.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/8/2011 8:24:11 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

With the clock ticking towards the expiration of enlistments, General McDowell was still reluctant to move. Of his 35,000 men, only 5,000 had what he considered adequate training. But Lincoln now sent McDowell a letter in which the President said, "You are green, it is true; but they are green also; you are all green alike." McDowell now had little choice but to move forward.

In the Shenandoah Valley, General Joseph Johnston decided to pull back his force a little further from General Patterson's larger Union force. Colonel Thomas Jackson was unhappy; after Hoke's Run he felt that his men could beat the Yankees even against odds. But when the Confederates reached the town of Winchester, Jackson received the welcome news of his promotion to brigadier general. They were also now in a better position to take advantage of the railroads in the area, and Patterson no longer had a clear idea of their position.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 165
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/8/2011 11:26:55 PM   
parusski


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I never ceased to be amazed at how "green" American Civil War soldiers were. Yet the men on both sides were still capable of standing in those tightly packed formations and braving the hell of modern weapons. I wonder if that kind of fighting could be done today.

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"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/8/2011 11:54:12 PM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

I never ceased to be amazed at how "green" American Civil War soldiers were. Yet the men on both sides were still capable of standing in those tightly packed formations and braving the hell of modern weapons. I wonder if that kind of fighting could be done today.


And on top of that it was literally relative against relative.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/9/2011 2:51:28 AM   
parusski


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How could I forget that. And there was so little retribution after the war(comparatively speaking). If Lincoln had lived I have no doubt his "let them up easy" attitude toward the south would have been more adhered to.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

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RE: Civil War 150th - 7/11/2011 5:22:49 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

After the rout at Philippi, the Confederates reconstructed their army in western Virginia at a place called Beverly. The Union built up its forces much faster, however, and soon General McClellan had over 12,000 men against General Robert S. Garnett's 4,500. More, Garnett was forced to split off some of his forces to guard the various approaches to Beverly. William S. Rosecrans, McClellan's subordinate, learned of a force of about 1,300 men led by Colonel John Pegram encamped at Rich Mountain, southwest of Beverly, and received McClellan's approval to attack.

Although a Union sympathizer showed Rosecrans a trail to flank Colonel Pegram's position, the Northerners did not march quietly enough and failed to achieve surprise. Hard fighting ensued. The sound of the guns reached McClellan at the head of the main body of Union troops. He now had the opportunity to attack the divided Confederate forces, and relieve the pressure on Rosecrans' men, but he over-estimated the size of the Confederate army and wavered, a pattern he would demonstrate on several occasions. After two hours, Rosecrans' superiority in numbers prevailed, and Pegram's force was split in two. Half escaped to Beverly, but Pegram and the remainder were trapped.

General Garnett now had to evacuate the main body of Confederates from Beverly, since he risked being surrounded. Although Rosecrans had done the planning and the fighting, McClellan received most of the credit for this success, which gave the Union control of most of what today is West Virginia. The plan for creating the new state could go forward.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/11/2011 5:23:31 AM >


_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 169
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/11/2011 7:15:08 AM   
ilovestrategy


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Ahhhh, McClellan and his lost chances. 

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Post #: 170
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/12/2011 8:16:26 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

The Choctaw and Chickasaw nations signed a treaty of alliance with the Confederacy. The Southerners had appointed a remarkable individual by the name of Albert Pike, a former newspaper publisher, lawyer, and poet, to act as their agent in the Indian Territories. Pike negotiated a generous treaty which, among other things, gave the Choctaw and Chickasaw a Representative in the Confederate Congress.
(further details of the treaty can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_with_Choctaws_and_Chickasaws )

Other nations would also ally with the Confederacy, but they were often deeply divided. Men from the Creek nation, especially, could be found on both sides of the fighting in the West.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 171
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/12/2011 11:43:36 PM   
ilovestrategy


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Dang, I never knew that.

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Post #: 172
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/13/2011 8:23:57 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

The two Senators from the "Restored government of Virginia" were accepted, and took their seats in the U.S. Senate.

The effects of the battle of Rich Mountain continued. After holding out for two days, Colonel John Pegram and over 600 men surrendered to General Rosecrans.

Meanwhile, General Robert Garnett continued the retreat with the main body of Confederates, who were even more badly outnumbered now. George McClellan sent some of his men, again under a subordinate (Brig. Gen. Thomas A. Morris), in pursuit.

After morning heavy rain had cleared up, the Union troops overtook Garnett's rear guard at Corrick's Ford on the Cheat River, and attacked. Garnett personally directed the rear guard of the Confederates in the running skirmish, but eventually, a Union bullet felled him. The Confederates fled, abandoning their dead commander, one cannon, and nearly 40 wagons. McClellan decided to halt the pursuit, and the remaining Southerners reached safety at Monterey, Virginia, two days later. Still, McClellan's popularity rose yet higher.

A friend in the Union Army recovered Garnett's body after the battle. He was the first general to be killed in the Civil War, but it was just the beginning of a long list: at least 124 general officers are known to have died in the conflict.


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Post #: 173
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/13/2011 9:22:08 PM   
andym


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As a Brit i find the paralells between the US Civil War and the English Civil War quite close.Family members on each side,great loss of life.One thing i find fascinating with the American Civil War are the photographs.Even thought the first Photo journalism happened in the Crimean War,the ACW photos bring the brutality and futility of the conflict home massively.I would love to see some photos accompanying these great Posts.The ACW is a fascinating part of history and so well documented as well,its just a shame we dont learn from previous wars.

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Post #: 174
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/14/2011 5:54:27 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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150 Years Ago Today:

Nearly a month after the Confederates pulled out of Harpers Ferry, Union troops under General Robert Patterson occupied it. This marked the second of eight times the town would change hands. It might have been better if the Northerners had stayed out, however, for from this point Patterson seems to have lost sight of his primary objective: to pin down Joseph Johnston's army. Harpers Ferry was virtually surrounded by higher ground, making it very hard to defend and equally hard to see distant enemy forces.




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< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/14/2011 5:55:45 AM >


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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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Post #: 175
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/14/2011 5:42:09 PM   
andym


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It looks so idyllic and peacefull in the photo.Looks a highly strategic position to be holed up in.

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(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 176
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/14/2011 6:11:41 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

It looks so idyllic and peacefull in the photo.Looks a highly strategic position to be holed up in.

No, the heights around it preclude it from being able to defend itself from attack, which was why Federal garrisons were crushed in several instances.

Photos are easy enough to find on the net.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwphtml/cwphome.html

< Message edited by Hanny -- 7/14/2011 6:13:49 PM >

(in reply to andym)
Post #: 177
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/14/2011 6:37:54 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

150 Years Ago Today:

The second part of Lincoln's proclamation after Fort Sumter now came into effect: a special session of Congress. To pay for the war, among other things, he knew that extraordinary measures would have to be passed, and so he had chosen an emotionally powerful date. He gave a speech to urge the emergency legislation, (though he left out the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus), for once referring to himself in the third person, and concluding:


Not so, all done without Congress in session.

Lincoln on those measures.
"These measures, whether strictly legal or not, were ventured upon under what appeared to be a popular demand and public necessity, trusting then as now that Congress would readily ratify them."

In his 8 April 1864 letter to Albert G. Hodges, an attorney from Frankfurt, Kentucky, he expressed the same sentiment: "I felt that measures, otherwise unconstitutional, might become lawful by becoming indispensable to the preservation of the Constitution through the preservation of the Union."

quote:


This is essentially a People's contest. On the side of the Union, it is a struggle for maintaining in the world, that form, and substance of government, whose leading object is, to elevate the condition of men---to lift artificial weights from all shoulders---to clear the paths of laudable pursuit for all---to afford all, an unfettered start, and a fair chance, in the race of life. Yielding to partial, and temporary departures, from necessity, this is the leading object of the government for whose existence we contend.


Constitution authorises no such thing for POTUS to perform.
Lincoln
"Every man thinks he has a right to live and every government thinks it has a right to live. Every man when driven to the wall by a murderous assailant will override all laws to protect himself, and this is called the great right of self-defense. So every government, when driven to the wall by a rebellion, will trample down a constitution before it will allow itself to be destroyed. This may not be constitutional law, but it is fact."

Lincoln

Let every American, every lover of liberty, every well-wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution never to violate in the least particular the laws of the country, and never to tolerate their violation by others. As the patriots of '76 did to the support of the Declaration of Independence, and so to the support of the Constitution and laws, let every American pledge his life, his property, and his sacred honor — let every man remember that to violate the law is to trample on the blood of his fathers, and to tear the charter of his own and children's liberty. Let reverence for the laws be breathed by every American mother to the lisping babe that prattles on her lap; let it be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges; let it be written in primers, in spelling books, and in almanacs; let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. And, in short, let it become the political religion of the nation.

quote:


[...]

He desires to preserve the government, that it may be administered for all, as it was administered by the men who made it. Loyal citizens everywhere, have the right to claim this of their government; and the government has no right to withhold, or neglect it. It is not perceived that, in giving it, there is any coercion, any conquest, or any subjugation, in any just sense of those terms.


Government was not being threatened, membership of the Union was the issue, and the men who made it had just secccded from the Articles of Confederation and before that secedded from the UK Crown. Loyal citizens of what?, each state had citizens who as citizens of that state pwed that state fealty and obiediance in law, no US Citizen existed without first beinga citizen of a state. New loyalty oaths were brought in in late 61, and only 90k of the states citizens who fought would post war agree to take them.

Lincoln
Indiana State legislature on 12 February 1861: "What is 'invasion'? Would the marching of an army into South Carolina, without the consent of her people, and with hostile intent toward them be 'invasion'? I certainly think it would, and it would be 'coercion' also if South Carolinians were forced to submit.

quote:


It was with the deepest regret that the Executive found the duty of employing the war-power, in defence of the government, forced upon him. He could but perform this duty, or surrender the existence of the government. No compromise, by public servants, could, in this case, be a cure; not that compromises are not often proper, but that no popular government can long survive a marked precedent, that those who carry an election, can only save the government from immediate destruction, by giving up the main point, upon which the people gave the election. The people themselves, and not their servants, can safely reverse their own deliberate decisions. As a private citizen, the Executive could not have consented that these institutions shall perish; much less could he, in betrayal of so vast, and so sacred a trust, as these free people had confided to him. He felt that he had no moral right to shrink; nor even to count the chances of his own life, in what might follow. In full view of his great responsibility, he has, so far, done what he has deemed his duty. You will now, according to your own judgment, perform yours. He sincerely hopes that your views, and your action, may so accord with his, as to assure all faithful citizens, who have been disturbed in their rights, of a certain, and speedy restoration to them, under the Constitution, and the laws.


War powers no one else had ever found or used, and the US AG Black advised the outgowing POTUS he could not use as they did not exist to be used for coercion.

Post war they were all denied to POTUS and a a real War Powers act intead introduced.
"These rebels are violating the Constitution to destroy the Union; I will violate the Constitution if necessary, to save the Union; and I suspect, Chase, that our Constitution is going to have a rough time of it before we get done with this row."

quote:


And having thus chosen our course, without guile, and with pure purpose, let us renew our trust in God, and go forward without fear, and with manly hearts.


Lincoln was of course forgetting he had directed Scott to prepare to hold and retake all federal property lost, as soon as he took office.

Lincoln 12 December 1860
"Please present my respects to the general, and tell him, confidentially, I shall be obliged to him to be as well prepared as he can to either hold or retake the forts, as the case may require, at and after the inauguration."


< Message edited by Hanny -- 7/14/2011 6:39:08 PM >

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 178
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/16/2011 5:19:44 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
150 Years Ago Today:

After a delay caused by the need to gather enough wagons to haul supplies, Irvin McDowell finally started his march from Washington towards Manassas Junction. There was no hope of keeping the movement secret: Washington still had a number of Southern sympathizers, in particular Rose O’Neal Greenhow, who provided information to the Confederacy.

Still, the Union advance was a striking example of slowness and lack of discipline. Men fell out of ranks to pick blackberries along the way, and the troops took two full days to cover a distance of only twenty-five miles. (Forty kilometers for the international readers.)

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/16/2011 5:23:27 PM >


_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 179
RE: Civil War 150th - 7/17/2011 5:17:46 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
150 Years Ago Today:


One response from the special session of Congress was the Act of July 17, 1861 which allowed for $250,000,000 to be borrowed on the credit of the United States. Of this sum, up to $50,000,000 was authorized as non-interest bearing Treasury Notes, payable upon demand. These were called "Demand Notes" to distinguish them from the interest-bearing Treasury Notes then in use. The green ink used on the backs of the Demand Notes would lead to them being called "greenbacks".

In West Virginia, Union forces under General Jacob Cox had begun a push up the Kanawha Valley from Ohio. Opposing them were a few thousand men commanded by General Henry A. Wise. Battle occurred when several Union regiments came into contact with a Confederate outpost. Captain George S. Patton (grandfather of the famous George S. Patton) commanded a line behind Scary Creek, several miles from the main Confederate camp. A heated firefight took place in which Captain Patton was wounded. But after several Union attempts to charge across the bridge over the creek failed, the Union troops pulled back.

For a time, the Confederates thought that Union reinforcements were arriving, and also retreated. The Southerners realized their mistake, however, and returned to claim the battlefield. The battle of Scary Creek had been fought fiercely, but casualties were light. The Union lost 14 killed, approximately 30 wounded, and several missing. The Confederates lost no more than five killed, and six wounded.

As happened on several occasions in the Civil War, the greatest importance was the decisions taken after the battle. General Wise decided to withdraw back up the Kanawha Valley toward his supply bases. This resulted in most of the Kanawha Valley going under Union control.


_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
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