No-brainers?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

No-brainers?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> No-brainers?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 3:59:55 AM

unclean

Posts: 163
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline

I'm wondering what things people do that don't come down to play style or preferences, but are done every single game because it's stupid not to. No brainers!

Here's the things I do:

Always put Recreation Centers and Medical Facilities on Space Ports
These let you squeeze about %7 more taxes out of colonies for only a tiny maintenance cost. Right now the AI adds these to LSPs, but they should at least be added to MSPs since your homeworld starts with one.

Prioritize construction techs
These seem to get the most bang for your buck in battle, as you get more effective ships without the jump in maintenance costs that higher tech components require.

Solar Panels on fleets ships

Add enough reactors to power hyperdrives all the way
Little bit of maintenance for reactors for a whole lot of speed. The AI only seems to do this for freighters though, so maybe it's intentional?

Minimize armor on designs, shields are king
Armor block a little more damage, and even absorbs some, but they cost ten times as much as shields. I don't see a reason to use these except against space monsters, who are the only things in game that can ignore shields.

Build lots of Explorers if you're going for an economic start
The AI seems to build way too few in general, which makes them really easy to outboom.

Research stations on your homeworld
Gives you a healthy tech advantage early on without tying up your constructors.

I'm curious to see the things other people do, since I haven't been playing for all that long.

Hopefully this will give the devs feedback on ways to make the AI more competitive, or on game mechanics that could use a little tweaking.

< Message edited by unclean -- 1/21/2011 5:15:15 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Game no-brainers - 1/21/2011 4:03:25 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

Destroy all pirate bases as soon as practical

For two reasons:

1. No base means no fuel for their ships so they can't attack you
2. You will want the gain in reputation you get to help keep you from being at war with half the galaxy at the same time.

PS, you also get some nice goodies from some of the bases.

PS2, You might want to buy independent colony information from them before lowering the hammer on them.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to unclean)

Post #: 2

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 7:15:21 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

Always put Recreation Centers and Medical Facilities on Space Ports
These let you squeeze about %7 more taxes out of colonies for only a tiny maintenance cost. Right now the AI adds these to LSPs, but they should at least be added to MSPs since your homeworld starts with one.

Actually, it seems to depend on race. Securans, for example, don't include Rec and Med facilities in their default designs, whereas Humans do. Why? You'll have to ask Erik about that one.

(in reply to unclean)

Post #: 3

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 7:45:41 AM

Howard Mitchell

Posts: 449
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

Prioritize construction techs
These seem to get the most bang for your buck in battle, as you get more effective ships without the jump in maintenance costs that higher tech components require.

I agree but for this one. I invariably start games with low tech and a beginning empire so for me the colonisation techs are very important. I'm happy to trade less efficient ships for a larger economic base which will allow me to build more of them. As often with this game it comes down to which combination of options you prefer.

_____________________________

While the battles the British fight may differ in the widest possible ways, they invariably have two common characteristics � they are always fought uphill and always at the junction of two or more map sheets.

General Sir William Slim

(in reply to unclean)

Post #: 4

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 8:11:38 AM

J HG T

Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline

Put more fuel tanks on important (or all) designs.
Lack of fuel seems to be a huge grief for many players. Fix this by simply adding couple or more extra fuel tanks on the designs. They aren't that heavy and your ships can travel further, work and fight longer.

BTW. Armor tech gets more important if you spend some time researching the higher tier armors. This's still a personal preference, and I too go for shields most of the time. (40% ECM and high-shield combo can do miracles)

< Message edited by J HG T -- 1/21/2011 8:18:03 AM >

_____________________________

Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it!
"And they hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear."

(in reply to Howard Mitchell)

Post #: 5

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 8:15:25 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: J HG T

BTW. Armor tech gets more important if you spend some time researching the higher tier armors. This still personal preference, and I too go for shields most of the time. (40% ECM and high-shield combo can do miracles)

Are you sure about this? The best I can say is that armour "sucks less" as you research it. Compared to shields, armour offers very little bang-for-the-buck compared to shields. Or am I missing something?

(in reply to J HG T)

Post #: 6

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 8:21:21 AM

J HG T

Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline

I've heard from many players that lots of high tech armor combined with couple of repair-bots can be surprisingly effective, can't say for sure. As I said I'm shield heavy person too. I might test this out with the Ikkuro (unique repair-bots) on some of my next games.

_____________________________

Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it!
"And they hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear."

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 7

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 9:10:19 AM

Data

Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

I do all of them except the last one

quote:

Research stations on your homeworld

I'm in no hurry to build the actual research...I wait until I find a black hole for example

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to unclean)

Post #: 8

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 11:09:02 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

I'm in no hurry to build the actual research...I wait until I find a black hole for example

Why wait till a black hole is convenient? Any particular reason?

(in reply to Data)

Post #: 9

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 11:35:32 AM

Data

Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

Just the way I like to play and take advantage of the research bonus a black hole offers

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 10

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 11:56:36 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

Just the way I like to play and take advantage of the research bonus a black hole offers

You're playing 1.06? There's no research bonus for the location in 1.5+ - any bonus is empire-wide and applied to one specific branch of technology. I'm not certain I understand this "bonus" you refer to.

(in reply to Data)

Post #: 11

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 12:14:07 PM

Data

Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

from the pedia

"Specialized research stations should be built near galactic anomalies that provide research bonuses. These special bonus locations include:
� parked in orbit around Neutron stars
� inside the pulsing radiation zones of Supernovae
� on the edge of deadly Black Holes"

I'm on the latest ROTS version but afaik this was in every DW version since the very begining
when you click on one of the objects above you can see a scenic and a research bonus, black holes have the bigest research one....+500% I think

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 12

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 12:31:49 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

Data -

I believe the research bonus from anomalies was changed with RotS - I played around with it, and didn't find research stations built at anomalies to give any more points than those built anywhere else, with RotS. If there's a bonus gained from a location, then it applies to the total empire-wide research for the affected technology tree, but the points generated by any research taking place at the site is unchanged otherwise.

Or did I miss something?

(in reply to Data)

Post #: 13

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 1:54:59 PM

Data

Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

No, you got it right

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 14

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 3:48:26 PM

gmot

Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

Maybe I'm dense this morning, but can someone clarify this?

So I should build a research station at a black hole (or other research bonus location) so that my empire-wide research gets the bonus.

But the research station itself at the black hole will produce the same amount as any other station (all else being equal).

Is that correct?

(in reply to Data)

Post #: 15

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 4:20:21 PM

Spacecadet

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmot

Maybe I'm dense this morning, but can someone clarify this?

So I should build a research station at a black hole (or other research bonus location) so that my empire-wide research gets the bonus.

But the research station itself at the black hole will produce the same amount as any other station (all else being equal).

Is that correct?

First, I don't think I've seen any Bonuses >100% for quite some time - probably 1.0.6 or earlier.

Not all anomalies give a bonus.
Check your Galaxy planner and select "Research Locations", you can click on the highlighted items and it will tell you how much and what type of bonus the location give.

You can also click on the item and it will display the bonus info in the info box.

You can go to your Research Stations screen and see a listing of bonuses from Research locations.
I don't think the Station itself does more research, but it gives an Empire wide bonus - you could look at the Station in the list on this screen to see if it does.

< Message edited by Spacecadet -- 1/21/2011 4:25:30 PM >

(in reply to gmot)

Post #: 16

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 4:55:50 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmot

Maybe I'm dense this morning, but can someone clarify this?

So I should build a research station at a black hole (or other research bonus location) so that my empire-wide research gets the bonus.

But the research station itself at the black hole will produce the same amount as any other station (all else being equal).

Is that correct?

If you are playing ROTS, then click the little lightbulb on the left hand UI menu, that will show you all you research bonus locations. Then queue up a ship to build it there. Only that research station receives the bonus, but it adds up.

Example: Black Hole Insatiable has a +37% high tech research bonus. When you build a high tech research station near the black hole (let the AI handle it by using the queue or leave on automatic building), that research station receives a 37% bonus to the number of high tech research points it produces.

So taking the base high tech research station which is 80,000 high tech research (80k), you get 80,000 + (80,000 * .37) = 109600 High Tech Research Points (a bonus of 29600 RP in High Tech)...which is added to your empire total for High Tech Research.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to gmot)

Post #: 17

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 5:26:59 PM

Data

Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

Yes, Shark has the most clear explanation of this....what a surprise

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 18

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 5:34:28 PM

gmot

Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

Thanks - yes, I know how to find the research bonus locations and build bases there.

My confusion is whether the bonus only applies to the research station at the bonus location, or as a bonus factor to all research stations across my empire. I thought that what Kayoz was saying is that it applies to empire-wide research. Maybe I read it wrong.

So using Shark7's example, if I have 2 high-tech research stations in my empire, one at a black hole with 37% bonus and one somewhere "normal", then I would get -

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37)) + 80,000 = 189600 High Tech Research Points for my empire. Correct?

(in reply to Data)

Post #: 19

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 5:35:38 PM

Data

Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

Correct

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to gmot)

Post #: 20

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 5:41:48 PM

gmot

Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

Okay good - thanks for clarifying.

(in reply to Data)

Post #: 21

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 8:31:43 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmot

So using Shark7's example, if I have 2 high-tech research stations in my empire, one at a black hole with 37% bonus and one somewhere "normal", then I would get -

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37)) + 80,000 = 189600 High Tech Research Points for my empire. Correct?

Incorrect. Bonus is applied empire-wide.

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37))* 2 = 219,200 - the bonus from your largest bonus site you have a station at is applied to the SUM TOTAL of your empire research generation for that branch.

Test it yourself. Unless I missed something, that's how it works in RotS.

Note, that DW 1.06 works with points generated on a per-base basis, as Shark described.

(in reply to gmot)

Post #: 22

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 9:20:13 PM

gmot

Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

Hmm - I will test that as I'm on the latest beta of ROTS. If it behaves like that, that seems rather buggy.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 23

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 9:23:07 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmot

So using Shark7's example, if I have 2 high-tech research stations in my empire, one at a black hole with 37% bonus and one somewhere "normal", then I would get -

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37)) + 80,000 = 189600 High Tech Research Points for my empire. Correct?

Incorrect. Bonus is applied empire-wide.

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37))* 2 = 219,200 - the bonus from your largest bonus site you have a station at is applied to the SUM TOTAL of your empire research generation for that branch.

Test it yourself. Unless I missed something, that's how it works in RotS.

Note, that DW 1.06 works with points generated on a per-base basis, as Shark described.

Incorrect still - but close - you get EMPIRE WIDE all of the bonuses. I am not sure if it can go over 100% though.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 24

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 9:48:33 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

Incorrect still - but close - you get EMPIRE WIDE all of the bonuses. I am not sure if it can go over 100% though.

What's incorrect?

80k research from each high-tech station
2 high-tech stations
37% high-tech bonus from black hole

How does your calculation differ from mine?

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 25

RE: No-brainers? - 1/21/2011 11:33:09 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

OK I just did a quick test. The planet/star bonus is a global effect, so what I said earlier is not right. I also found no clear explanation of this in the galactopedia, so unless I just totally missed it, Elliot might want to edit in how the research bonuses work for future reference.

Definitively, if you build at a Black Hole with a 37% energy bonus, and you have 200k of energy research empire wide, then you end up with 268k of empire energy research. In the case of my current game you can combine this with a 25% Republic bonus and a 15% Human bonus so you get a total of a 77% energy bonus.

In that case my 200k turns into (200,000 * 1.77) = 354,000 or 354k energy research.

Also if it is true that this bonus does max out at 100%, there comes a point that building additional research stations in special locations is a moot point. You might even be better off building them all in one area to make them easier to defend (if the AI actually attacked them, which it does not seem to do atm).

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 1/21/2011 11:34:19 PM >

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 26

RE: No-brainers? - 1/22/2011 3:16:35 AM

gmot

Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for testing that - you beat me to it.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 27

RE: No-brainers? - 1/22/2011 4:59:10 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Also if it is true that this bonus does max out at 100%...

I'm pretty sure this one is false - the special ruins give +100% research bonus to a particular tree. Also, you get bonuses for repairing derelicts. Not to mention government type WotA which gives, what... +50%? I can't see how the cap is +100% - it's way too easy to hit. I'm pretty sure I've seen bonuses tripling my research at times.

What's the source of this claim?

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 28

RE: No-brainers? - 1/22/2011 5:03:00 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

Quoting from Gargoil: Incorrect still - but close - you get EMPIRE WIDE all of the bonuses. I am not sure if it can go over 100% though.

I don't think its listed anywhere exactly what the cap is though (if there even is one), just like I have yet to find an explanation in the Galactopedia on exactly how the bonuses are applied.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 29

RE: No-brainers? - 1/22/2011 5:36:29 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

I still have no idea what Gargoil was ranting about.

What's wrong with my calculation? What he said is no different from what I wrote.

Hrmm - I may have to get my crow cook-book out. I loaded up a game and tested it again - now I'm confused. Numbers don't rack up either way. Government and racial bonuses aren't reflected.

Example:
Kuan Research Station has 80 base, so 35% bonus you get 28 bonus points.
360 capacity, 386 actual - so I seem to have lost 2 points somewhere - if the bonus is only applied to the station and not ALL research in that branch.
In that case, where's my racial and government bonus?

Seems to me that something has changed - I'm SURE that I had different results with 1.50. Only way to test, is to roll back - and I'm not too keen on that. Erik wants to check it out, he can do a code review - quicker that way. (current 1.502)