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Immobilized infantry - 9/12/2002 10:12:36 PM   
Bernie


Posts: 1779
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: Depot HQ - Virginia
Status: offline 		Recently I've been playing quite a few games using limited ammo. One thing I've noticed happening is that any unit, even infantry units, that runs out of ammo becomes immobilized. While I can understand a unit not wanting to advance with empty guns, they can't retreat to resupply either.

Can anyone else confirm this behavior for me?

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Post #: 1
- 9/12/2002 10:18:16 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Can't help you on this one. Mine either die or I win before they run out of ammo.:(

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Post #: 2
- 9/12/2002 10:41:14 PM   
OKW-73

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 9/1/2001
From: Cyberspace, Finland
Status: offline 		hmm..dont know about that, but at least snipers dont get immobilized after running out of ammo...

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Post #: 3
- 9/13/2002 12:02:37 AM   
Katana

 

Posts: 570
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Hasn't happened to me yet. Had a handgrenade malfunction once...
lost the rest of them too, like a gun with useless ammo.

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Post #: 4
- 9/13/2002 12:45:36 AM   
Jacc

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 4/30/2001
From: Viikki Imperium
Status: offline 		Haven't noticed. What version are you playing? Sturmtigers, for example, always run out of ammo, but that doesn't affect the mobility. Neither have my infantry ever got immobilized after they have depleted their ammo.

It's a mystery, I guess - or a conspiracy against you... :p

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Post #: 5
- 9/13/2002 12:47:51 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Bernie, are you playing with command and control turned on? That might be the cause. Just a guess though, cause I don't play with it enabled.

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Post #: 6
- 9/13/2002 1:19:25 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Are infantry units even able to run out of ammo? :eek:

I mean, I have never had a rifle squad run out - even when playing vs. Japanese :p

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Post #: 7
- 9/13/2002 1:24:01 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Haven't a clue, although I've seen some of mine run out of lower slot weapons ammo, satchel charges, etc., etc but never the primary one. Attack with a little more reckless abandon Bernie ,and you won't have to worry about it.

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Post #: 8
- 9/13/2002 1:41:13 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		Bernie,
Check the unit's status...is it retreating? On numerous occaisions I've had infantry units which successfully rallied to '1' but are still retreating (no shots/movement). It happens alot when they're in a burning hex, or when enemy units (especially armor) are in an adjacent hex and inflicted heavy suppression on the unit during the previous turn.

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Post #: 9
- 9/13/2002 9:12:35 AM   
Bernie


Posts: 1779
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: Depot HQ - Virginia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim1954
[B]Bernie, are you playing with command and control turned on? That might be the cause. Just a guess though, cause I don't play with it enabled. [/B][/QUOTE]

Nope, C&C is off, and to answer another question that was asked, they're not retreating.

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Post #: 10
- 9/13/2002 9:14:01 AM   
Bernie


Posts: 1779
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: Depot HQ - Virginia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim1954
[B]Haven't a clue, although I've seen some of mine run out of lower slot weapons ammo, satchel charges, etc., etc but never the primary one. Attack with a little more reckless abandon Bernie ,and you won't have to worry about it. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, they can run out of ammo, and how can I play the Japanese side without banzai charges? :)

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Post #: 11
- 9/13/2002 6:38:55 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I don't know of any oyher Nippo-tactics that work. At least they still have those swords, right? Maybe they are all taking a Budda break. I am at a total loss on this one.

(in reply to Bernie)
Post #: 12
- 9/13/2002 6:57:34 PM   
antarctic

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/24/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Is there an "immobilised" word in the bottom bar?

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Post #: 13
- 9/13/2002 10:28:08 PM   
Bernie


Posts: 1779
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: Depot HQ - Virginia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by antarctic
[B]Is there an "immobilised" word in the bottom bar? [/B][/QUOTE]

Nope, it says "ready" but moves is set to 0 and they have no ammo left.

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Post #: 14
- 9/15/2002 3:32:16 PM   
Lars Remmen

 

Posts: 357
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: offline 		Is it perhaps a wheeled/tracked unit that has been changed to an infantry unit? I did that once with the same result. It only said 'immobilized' in the combat results not on the unit info screen IIRC.

Regards,

Lars

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Post #: 15
- 9/15/2002 3:55:14 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Perhaps it's time to delete that steel.prf file again?
I play normally with 'limited ammo on' setting and I've never experienced such behaviour. And yes, some units do run out of ammo :)

Voriax

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Post #: 16
- 9/16/2002 1:50:34 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie
[B]

Nope, it says "ready" but moves is set to 0 and they have no ammo left. [/B][/QUOTE]

my only guess is that you play a user made scenario and the unit in question was edited having a movement of Nil! What scenario do you play? If it´s NOT a user made scenario, please send me a save game if you still have one! :)

[email]harizan@web.de[/email]

_________
Harry

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Post #: 17
- 9/16/2002 2:06:53 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Harry may have hit on the problem. I sometimes design a scenario with stationary infantry units - but only for AI and I try to say in the text file that side 2 will not work for human play.

That could be it.

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Post #: 18
- 9/16/2002 2:25:42 AM   
Karnaaj

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Spokane WA USA
Status: offline 		Oh yeah, infantry can run out of ammo... I've a bad tendancy to extreme-range fire, and tend to 1) run out of MG/rifle-grenades/other support, 2) run out of rifle/SMG, and 3) die from assaults before running ot of grenades. My most reliable one for that was the first battle in Russian Steel - some of the Commies towards the south *always* ended up dug-in with grenades only... never did really get them into anything, even with multiple tries at the scenario. (And only *once* did I manage to kill a Panzer, 2 hex range, with *rifle* fire. That was too cool...)

I think the other scenario that I kept rnning out of (infantry) ammo on was Wild Bill's Iwo Jima; as I recall, by the time I got Marines to the top of the southern mountain (Suribachi?), they were down to beating the enemy to death with C-rations.

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Post #: 19
- 9/17/2002 12:11:02 AM   
Bernie


Posts: 1779
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: Depot HQ - Virginia
Status: offline 		Did a wipe of the steel.prf over the weekend and the units are on the move again. I'm not sure what in the .prf could have caused this glitch but it's gone now. Funny though, I could have sworn I wiped that .prf right after I noticed the problem, but I had a HD go south on me that week and may have restored the old .prf from backups by accident.

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Post #: 20
- 9/17/2002 7:57:08 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie
[B]Did a wipe of the steel.prf over the weekend and the units are on the move again. I'm not sure what in the .prf could have caused this glitch but it's gone now. Funny though, I could have sworn I wiped that .prf right after I noticed the problem, but I had a HD go south on me that week and may have restored the old .prf from backups by accident. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hm....I´m almost disappointed by this news! :eek: :D I hoped to find some new way for infantry to become immobed during a battle! Well..at last what counts is that you could run your game without glitches again! :)

_______
Harry

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Post #: 21
- 9/18/2002 10:22:16 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, infantry can run out of ammo. I'm positive GE Motorcycles can :D and I know US infantry units can run out of their primary weapon--I just played some of [B]Wild Bill[/B]'s "Flesh and Steel" campaign, and it's happened to me many, many times. (Good thing those rifle squads have Thompson's too!!)

I'm not sure if this came up (too lazy to look back), but if a vehicle's main weapon is damaged, then the crew will be unarmed. :rolleyes:

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Post #: 22
- 9/18/2002 11:37:33 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		Check the ammo load-outs during the purchase phase: alot of light infantry (esp. airborne) only have 1/2-2/3 of primary weapon rounds compared to standard line infantry. I noticed that when I use Fallschirm at least 1 squad will always run out. Tankodesantniki have an even lower percentage, though they usually don't last long enough to matter ;)

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Post #: 23
- 9/18/2002 6:41:11 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		This entire thread serves to reinforce my usual habit of increasing infantry ammo when designing. :) (Although deleting steel.prf is something I never thought of, when confronted with the problem myself.)

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Post #: 24
- 9/19/2002 8:31:55 PM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tracer
[B]Check the ammo load-outs during the purchase phase: alot of light infantry (esp. airborne) only have 1/2-2/3 of primary weapon rounds compared to standard line infantry. I noticed that when I use Fallschirm at least 1 squad will always run out. Tankodesantniki have an even lower percentage, though they usually don't last long enough to matter ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

I thought it was odd, so I asked around... and that's Bravo Sangria. Airborne/Para units have [I]heavier[/I] ammo loadouts, at least when dropped, because you can't be sure when they'll be able to be resupplied. :mad:

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Post #: 25
- 9/23/2002 4:04:33 PM   
Nicodemus

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/21/2002
Status: offline 		Cant say thay I've had it happen to me, does this happen on one particular scenario or on all you play?

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Post #: 26
- 9/24/2002 3:17:15 AM   
Karnaaj

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Spokane WA USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]Airborne/Para units have [I]heavier[/I] ammo loadouts, at least when dropped, because you can't be sure when they'll be able to be resupplied. :mad: [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmm. From reading Donald Burgett (CURRAHEE!/AS EAGLES SCREAMED, THE ROAD TO ARNHEM), they did load up heavy on ammo... bu they still had the drop containers of even more stuff. Maybe low ammo is when they lose the cans? Or perhaps a hasty mission, where it's grab'n'go, to try and plug a break in the lines? I know that SEVEN ROADS TO HELL (Bastogne) shows Burgett & Co. are *abysmally*armed - I mean, one guy with a *stick*?

I suspect, as a general rule, line infantry (including airborne) will load up on ammo more than food; you can always scavenge a meal, and hunger can be ignored better if you're shooting at someone...

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Post #: 27
- 9/24/2002 5:22:19 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]

I thought it was odd, so I asked around... and that's Bravo Sangria. Airborne/Para units have [I]heavier[/I] ammo loadouts, at least when dropped, because you can't be sure when they'll be able to be resupplied. :mad: [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sure what you're saying is correct, but in SPWAW elite and specialized infantry almost always have lower loadouts. Perhaps it was done intentionally to balance out their higher fire control and killing power.

I generated some battles in 6/44 and got the following (v7.1):

GE: Grenadiers/rifle-90, Fallschirm-40, Spec Ops-50, Engineer-30.

US: Mech/rifle-70, Airborne-60, Ranger-50, Engineer-40.

SO: Rifle-80 or 90, Guards-60, SMG-40, Paras-60, Marines-30, Engineer-30.

For what its worth, US units have more than others.

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Post #: 28
- 9/24/2002 5:51:59 AM   
Bing

 

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline 		That's the answer! They had their wheels shot off and can't move.

How's the Rally, Experience and Morale of those sit-down troopers? If Ralliy goes south - and stays that way for any time - you will not get them to move no matter what. They can't Rally, they can't even go to the bathroom.

I have had troopers flat out quit on me - nobody shot at them, they are not out of ammo, their morale and expr are fine. Game just does that sometimes. I've had AFV's in perfect supply and running condition do the same - just sit there.

This is an advanced feature of v7.1, perhaps it was also in previous versions but I don't remember it being there. You don't know it, Bernie, but you are experiencing battlefield realism.

I cure everything with a dash of rally and a spritz of experience and morale. I figure that if God did not want us to Edit, He would not have given us the "D" button. There is a way around everything - almost everything - if we look hard enough and long enough.

Now if Diana Rigg would return my phone calls ....

Bing

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Post #: 29
- 9/24/2002 6:29:52 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tracer
[B]
I'm sure what you're saying is correct, but in SPWAW elite and specialized infantry almost always have lower loadouts. Perhaps it was done intentionally to balance out their higher fire control and killing power.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Game balance. I love it in my RPG's, but in my [I]historical simulations[/I] I don't.

[I]De gustibus non disputandum est.[/I]
In taste, no dispute exists. ("To each their own.")

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Post #: 30
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