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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/9/2011 6:53:16 PM

paullus99

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At this rate, Palembang might hit 5 or 6 for forts before you opponent comes calling - that's going to be bad, very bad. He may be fighting in the DEI through the Fall at this point (and with his luck, maybe even into the beginning of 1943).

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/9/2011 6:56:49 PM

Nemo121

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I'd put a bit more at Oosthaven at the expense of Palembang. The terrain in Palembang gives you a x3 bonus while the terrain at Oosthaven gives no bonus. So, effectively you could have 4200 AV ( adjusted) at Palembang but only 800 AV at Oosthaven. I tried to keep twice as much at Oosthaven ( or close to it ) as I did at Palembang once I felt comfortable I had enough to hold Palembang.

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Post #: 662

RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/9/2011 6:59:48 PM

Nemo121

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No, by September 1942 Canoerebel will be on the counter-offensive... Well, I think the game will end at that time or shortly after it.

It would be an interesting position for a new Japanese commander to take over actually, restarting a stalled offensive, a difficult task but not an impossible one.

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Post #: 663

RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/9/2011 7:16:54 PM

Canoerebel

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I'm still trying to configure my troop dispositions. I want Steve to try to land at Oosthaven, Benkolen, or Padang (so that I can take a shot at the invasion ships with my heavy combat ships and carriers). I think it is likely that he will choose one of them, so perhaps I should draw down Palembang's garrison as Nemo suggests. Padang would be optimal for the Allies, because it would be the most exposed and would require the invading IJ army to move overland with difficult supply-draw problems. So perhaps I should leave Padang relatively lightly guarded to draw Steve that way. I do have a CD unit at Padang and two at Oosthaven. (One is on the way to Benkolen, but won't reach the area for weeks).

I also want to be sure that I can pull troops inwards towards Palembang when the time comes to withdraw into the "inner sanctum."

I am nearly certain that Steve will attend to Singapore, southern Borneo, and Java before moving on to Sumatra. That means it may be six weeks or more before he's ready. At that point, a strong enemy cordon should exist around Sumatra, but the Allies may be able to effectively commit massed carriers and combat ships at the enemy.

The Allies would go on the offensive in two other theaters if political points were available. I have enough to go on the offensive in one place, but perhaps I'll accumulate enough to open another before all is said and done.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/9/2011 7:17:57 PM >

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Post #: 664

RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/9/2011 7:18:57 PM

Canoerebel

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Here's an overview as of 3/10/42

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 665

RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 2:08:48 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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I have some questions about about amphbious invasions against hard targets, gents.

In my first AE game against Miller, the Allied invasion of Paramushiro was successful though the CD guns ate up my transports. I don't think pre-invasion bombardments were effective and I don't think I had the right mix of combat ships in the transport TFs to soak up shore fire.

Question 1: Have any of the patches since the very early days radically altered CD effectiveness . I have a fuzzy memory that there were concerns that it was too easy for Japan to invade Pearl, so adjustments were made to strengthen CD gunfire. Is that the case?

Question 2: My invasion force is loaded on good transports (mainly AP and AK with a few xAP and xAK thrown in). What is the current thinking on embedding combat ships in a transport TF? Do you want CL? CA? BB? A combination?

Question 3: Is it worthwhile using a bombardment TF prior to the invasion to try to suppress shore guns, or are bombardment TFs pretty worthless? (I could recon with Kingfishers to get some detection, but obviously I don't want to give away too much surprise.)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

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Post #: 666

RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 2:17:34 PM

treespider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have some questions about about amphbious invasions against hard targets, gents.

In my first AE game against Miller, the Allied invasion of Paramushiro was successful though the CD guns ate up my transports. I don't think pre-invasion bombardments were effective and I don't think I had the right mix of combat ships in the transport TFs to soak up shore fire.

Question 1: Have any of the patches since the very early days radically altered CD effectiveness . I have a fuzzy memory that there were concerns that it was too easy for Japan to invade Pearl, so adjustments were made to strengthen CD gunfire. Is that the case?

Question 2: My invasion force is loaded on good transports (mainly AP and AK with a few xAP and xAK thrown in). What is the current thinking on embedding combat ships in a transport TF? Do you want CL? CA? BB? A combination?

Question 3: Is it worthwhile using a bombardment TF prior to the invasion to try to suppress shore guns, or are bombardment TFs pretty worthless? (I could recon with Kingfishers to get some detection, but obviously I don't want to give away too much surprise.)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

In my game with witpqs I experienced some CD gun nastiness at Port Moresby...lost a few xAK's. IIRC I think I had a CL and some DD's with the TF...don't think I had a CA...and IIRC I think I bombarded with BB's as well. Sorry I couldn't be more specific but I'm at the office and don't have the combat replay in front of me..

Oh and we're using my mod of DBB's...so for CD guns and ships it is DBB....plus were using the Beta patches.

< Message edited by treespider -- 5/10/2011 2:18:31 PM >

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 3:10:13 PM

kfsgo

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If you want a DL kick you can always send a submarine - seems fairly random as to what you get out of it but they can get a lot of info on occasion. Whether you'd want to depends on how many subs have been loitering around the Kuriles up to now, I guess...

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Post #: 668

RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 3:41:07 PM

Canoerebel

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[Readers: please see my questions several boxes up and answer if you can]

This is the Allied grand strategic plan for the coming weeks and months:

1. Cribtop HQ believes....wiat, no, I mean Canoerbel HQ believes that the enemy will focus on the DEI.

2. The Allies will "fight to the death" for Sumatra. The plan is to commit heavy combat ships and carriers to try to seriously attrit enemy naval forces and the invasion transports. We believe it is likely the enemy will land at Oosthaven. The second most likely target is Benkolen. The Allies will try to boost the CD presence at both bases (Oost currently has two CD units; Benkolen none). I have about 3,500 AV in Sumatra. I'd love another 1,000 or so, but I'm fresh out of politcal points. The invasion is likely to occur after the enemy deals with Singapore, Borneo and Java. This will afford Chez good LBA coverage. I believe he's apprehensive going against Sumatra after the losses he's taken in the DEI.

3. The Allies will invade Paramushiro Jima and Onnekotan Jima, Kuriles, as soon as I know where the KB is (that should be soon). This is intended to open a second front. I suspect Chez won't take the bait - IE, he'll commit to the DEI and postpone dealing with the Kuriles until later. The Allies will reinforce and build both bases with the expectation that I can hold them until winter sets in. Sumatra will be important to delay the enemy as long as possible. This invasion will probably remove any vestige of a threat to India, allowing the Allies to make use of the American troops enroute there (see below).

4. By the time Chez is ready to move on the Kuriles, the Allies will move on the Gilberts (Tarawa, Nauru and Ocean). Troops are prepping on the West Coast.

5. The India garrison, which will include alot of American troops by summer, may be used in a campaign in Burma or Malaya.

Sumatra is the key to this defense. The Allies need to attrit Japanese naval power and tie up the Japanese army as long as possible. My current projection is that Palembang should be able to hold well into the summer. We may reach the point where it is possible that the Allies can successfully defend Sumata. If that point is reached, I'll reconfigure my plans to build on that.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 4:44:41 PM

pws1225

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have some questions about about amphbious invasions against hard targets, gents.

In my first AE game against Miller, the Allied invasion of Paramushiro was successful though the CD guns ate up my transports. I don't think pre-invasion bombardments were effective and I don't think I had the right mix of combat ships in the transport TFs to soak up shore fire.

Question 1: Have any of the patches since the very early days radically altered CD effectiveness . I have a fuzzy memory that there were concerns that it was too easy for Japan to invade Pearl, so adjustments were made to strengthen CD gunfire. Is that the case?

Question 2: My invasion force is loaded on good transports (mainly AP and AK with a few xAP and xAK thrown in). What is the current thinking on embedding combat ships in a transport TF? Do you want CL? CA? BB? A combination?

Question 3: Is it worthwhile using a bombardment TF prior to the invasion to try to suppress shore guns, or are bombardment TFs pretty worthless? (I could recon with Kingfishers to get some detection, but obviously I don't want to give away too much surprise.)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Question 2: It's been my experience that if you have a BB or CA in the amphibious TF, they will draw the fire of CD units, aircraft, etc. sparing your transports and the troops loaded aboard. Also, if you have the ships, a separate SCTF set to follow the amphibious TF will hopefully interdict an enemy SCTF that comes prowling about.

Of course, since I just got my own amphibious TF shot to hell by PT boats at Davao, you may want to seek guidance else where.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 4:45:49 PM

Cribtop

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The irony is that long ago I lifted Cribtop HQ from my current opponent Cuttlefish (he referred to Cuttlefish HQ in his game with Q Ball and others). Cribtop Intel is my own creation and has been duly trademarked by our agent M&M Enterprises.

As to CD guns, I've had good luck with port attacks pre-invasion (probably not an option as you won't have CVs). Then include CA or BB in the invasion TF itself. They engage the guns pretty effectively and also soak up fire. The choice between CA or BB or a combination depends on size of the CD guns and the need to have a separate SCTF to protect against surface threats. Bombardment wouldn't hurt if you have the extra ships, but from what I've seen it's less effective than ships in the invasion TF.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 4:57:22 PM

Canoerebel

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I'm facing a Gordian knot of an issue - one that is quite complicated - that is making my head spin. I don't offer this for input, because I think I can come to a reasonable conclusion that I can live with.

The issue is this: Do I buy the restricted heavy AA units at Singapore an move them to Palembang? Singapore is a key buffer protecting Palembang, but it's days are numbered. It should fall to an overwhelming onslaught in a month or six weeks. Until then, the AA units are effective in countering enemy air attacks. This also helps Palembang because it bleeds enemy air power.

On the other hand, Palembang could certainly put heavy AA units to good use in the seige that should begin sometime this spring. The AA units would probably remain in play for much, much longer there.

So, do I choose in favor of keeping the critical buffer strong as long as possible, or do I weaken the critical buffer in order to strengthen the utlimate scene of battle?

Hmmmmm.....

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 5:11:16 PM

anarchyintheuk

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Any reason to expect Singers getting to 5 in fortifications? If not, then I'd pull the aa out provided it's not going to end up at the bottom of the ocean.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 5:14:45 PM

Canoerebel

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There's no guarantee that the transports will make it from Singers to Palembang, but I think the odds are decent. There's no way Singers gets to level five forts unless Steve just gives up.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 5:26:49 PM

Smeulders

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From your posts I see that you're already low on PP. If you're not sure where the AA will do the most good (and take into account the chance you'll lose it in transit), I'd suggest saving the PP.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 5:54:58 PM

Canoerebel

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One more point to make before I close out this turn and send it to Steve.

The Japanese invasion bonus expires in 20 days. I think the bonus is a critical advantage. Post-bonus invasions should incur much higher disruption levels. So an invasion against a well-fortified hex with CD guns and a stout, well-prepped garrison could be tough on Japan.

I don't think Steve will invade Sumatra before the bonus expires.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 7:40:40 PM

Canoerebel

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Yes, Smeulders, I'm very low on political points (after recently buying 41st Division at Seattle). What I spent today might give you an idea as to my priorities.

I began the turn with 171 political points. I spent most of this as follows:

108 pp for an Aussie CD force at Perth (this goes to Oosthavent)
18 pp to buy two Chinese infantry unit commanders (to replace two low quality commanders at the key hex of Changsha)
23 pp to buy one heavy AA unit at Singapore (which will go to Palembang)

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 9:45:06 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Japanese invasion bonus expires in 20 days.

I know that the manual says "4 months", but I have never heard a clarification. Does that mean 04/06/1942 is the last day of the bonus, or is it 03/31/1942?

BTW, as to your queries, I have noticed that warships in an invasion TF tend to use up all of their ammo in one day of invasion support fire. It might help to have a TF with "spares" that can be rotated into the invasion TFs for gunfire support on subsequent days. Please note that my observation is pre-Beta release, and I do not know if that has been tweaked.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 10:52:05 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have some questions about about amphbious invasions against hard targets, gents.

In my first AE game against Miller, the Allied invasion of Paramushiro was successful though the CD guns ate up my transports. I don't think pre-invasion bombardments were effective and I don't think I had the right mix of combat ships in the transport TFs to soak up shore fire.

Question 1: Have any of the patches since the very early days radically altered CD effectiveness . I have a fuzzy memory that there were concerns that it was too easy for Japan to invade Pearl, so adjustments were made to strengthen CD gunfire. Is that the case?

Question 2: My invasion force is loaded on good transports (mainly AP and AK with a few xAP and xAK thrown in). What is the current thinking on embedding combat ships in a transport TF? Do you want CL? CA? BB? A combination?

Question 3: Is it worthwhile using a bombardment TF prior to the invasion to try to suppress shore guns, or are bombardment TFs pretty worthless? (I could recon with Kingfishers to get some detection, but obviously I don't want to give away too much surprise.)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Couple of old BBs directly in your amphibious TF is all you need. CAs if the BBs are not available. The BBs soak up the hits (usually shrugging them off) and suppress the enemy shore guns. I have had no trouble when I do this and don't think I have lost a ship to shore fire when using BBs. I think this is much more useful than putting them in a bombardment force.

A bombardment force will however cause disruption, so they have their place as well. I have not invaded a heavily defended atoll but think you would want a bombardment force as well.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 5/10/2011 10:55:00 PM >

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 10:56:33 PM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have some questions about about amphbious invasions against hard targets, gents.

In my first AE game against Miller, the Allied invasion of Paramushiro was successful though the CD guns ate up my transports. I don't think pre-invasion bombardments were effective and I don't think I had the right mix of combat ships in the transport TFs to soak up shore fire.

Question 1: Have any of the patches since the very early days radically altered CD effectiveness . I have a fuzzy memory that there were concerns that it was too easy for Japan to invade Pearl, so adjustments were made to strengthen CD gunfire. Is that the case?

Question 2: My invasion force is loaded on good transports (mainly AP and AK with a few xAP and xAK thrown in). What is the current thinking on embedding combat ships in a transport TF? Do you want CL? CA? BB? A combination?

Question 3: Is it worthwhile using a bombardment TF prior to the invasion to try to suppress shore guns, or are bombardment TFs pretty worthless? (I could recon with Kingfishers to get some detection, but obviously I don't want to give away too much surprise.)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Couple of old BBs directly in your amphibious TF is all you need. CAs if the BBs are not available. The BBs soak up the hits (usually shrugging them off) and suppress the enemy shore guns. I have had no trouble when I do this and don't think I have lost a ship to shore fire when using BBs. I think this is much more useful than putting them in a bombardment force.

A bombardment force will however cause disruption, so they have their place as well. I have not invaded a heavily defended atoll but think you would want a bombardment force as well.

It will be intersting to see how well the close support landing craft work in supressing gunfire and the amtracks units which are big and powerful. I just have not gotten to that point in my games.

Now how the hell did I just do that?

< Message edited by crsutton -- 5/10/2011 10:58:27 PM >

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/10/2011 11:24:45 PM

Cribtop

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Accidentally hit quote instead of reply? It's a handy feature.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 3:55:55 AM

jeffk3510

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I think (sorry if it has been addressed) moving the AA units to Palembang is a good idea. It sounds like it is becoming a huge fortress and the invasion bonus is almost up, so you could really put a thorn in his side for a while with it if you ask me. Sounds like he is going to pay dearly to take it. Especially if he lands there.

Any idea where the KB is at?

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 10:34:16 AM

paullus99

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I believe our combined assumption has been that the KB is moving back towards the DEI after its participation in the Fiji Operation. Given that he's been backed into a corner with the loss of the mini-KB, he is in the position of having to use his main carrier force for air cover in subsequent operations - this will both help and hurt him, because once the KB is located & tied down (and the DEI can be a dangerous place for carriers - as he already has seen), Canoerebel can proceed with his other operations outside of the DEI.

The sinking of those light carriers could be the war-winner, in my opinion.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 11:05:14 AM

Fishbed

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Problem is that the Kuriles ops better be quickly led and done. Those US carriers will be a looooong way from home (is Dutch harbor the closest hub of the kind?). I fear that he may not even need carriers for taking the place back. A single division may take the place, but hardly keep it long so close from Japan.

Kuriles can be tricky, and retaken without carrier force I think. An aggressive air campaign from Hokkaido and other Kurile islands can bomb the place into submission, and don't even mention some regular battlewagon runs with the old BBs. That will be a distraction, but I fear the place will last as long as it takes for a prudent Japanese player to prepare his troops. Ressuply seems next to impossible on the long run for me, especially if you give up on providing fleet CV cover against a come back from the KB. Still, it may make a dent on his deployment and his forces more than it does to yours.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 12:45:30 PM

ny59giants

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The results of a bombardment TF is mixed. They can focus on the troops or the AF/Port. It seems to be very random.

I have seen the use of an old BB or two in your transports do well against CD guns as they will focus on them and they can use their thick skin to absorb the hits. Don't forget to add in some of those DMS to both the BB TF and Amphib TF to clear any mines you may find up there. My Japanese opponent in one game (Seille) posted in Tech Support about the effectiveness of BB TF and MichaelM responded that there were no changes.

Have you two decided to use any of the Beta Patches for your game?? I'm using them in all my games and find they are very stable at this point I got John 3rd to do so for his games. You have the added feature of being able to use PP to buy back destroyed LCUs and it may make losing some units at Singapore more favorable for you.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 12:51:44 PM

Canoerebel

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Chez can take control of the Kuriles area if he commits his carriers or combat ships. Either move will seriously help the Allies in Sumatra, so that would be welcome.

If he doesn't commit his ships until after he attends to the DEI (or until he gets his army landed on Sumatra), the Allies will have months to prepare the Kuriles:

1. Japan doesn't have any airbases above level one closer than Hokkaido (about 15 hexes from Onnekton). Toyohara, Shikuka, and Paramushiro are level one airfields.

2. The Allies will begin with three BBs, which should outgun anything Japan could commit for quite some time.

3. The Allies will begin the campaign with only a few units for each target, but will bring in lots of engineers and CD units over the following weeks.

4. Allied engineers should be able to build the airfields rapidly, thus allowing the storage of alot of supplies.

5. By the time Chez is ready to attend to the Kuriles, the Allies should be ready to proceed with other amphibious operations elsewhere.

6 If Chez waits long enough, winter conditions will set in buying the Allies four months of absolute security on the islands. By spring 1943, the Allies could either fight for the Kuriles or use them as a good diversion.

7. Japanese invasions are tricky after the expiration of the invasion bonus, so a counterinavasion should exact a decent toll.

The Allies don't have to hold the Kuriles for the move to be effective. This is mainly about creating a second crisis for Japan. If things go well - if I don't lose too many merchants - it will be followed by a third crisis long before Japan could retake the Kuriles. Creating multiple hotspots should wrest the initiative from Japan and will protect most of the vulnerable areas from Japanese invasion (if Chez is focused on the Kuriles, he doesn't go after a lightly defended New Zealand, etc.).

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 5:32:05 PM

Canoerebel

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3/11/42 and 3/12/42

Eastern DEI: Quiet - no sign of the KB here or anywhere else. This is the area in which I expect the next big IJ thrust forward.

Western DEI: Lots of Allied shipping moving in and out, shuttling supplies, fuel, and troops between various bases. Singapore's AV is back up to 800 (from a low of 674 after the IJ shock attack on the 6th.

India: The American carriers arrive at Colombo and fill out aircraft squadrons. Lexington, Saratoga, and a variety of combat ships are set to upgrade. CV Formidable just arrive at Capetown and will proceed to Colombo.

China: Allied bombardment at Changsha shows 1400 AV (13th and 116th Divisions and three brigades). I also got SigInt that 39th Division is prepping for this base. This suggest Steve might move his big stack to Changsha from the hex to the south, trying to gain better than 3x advantage so that Chinese reinforcements have to shock attack. I'm moving 200 AV from Siangtan to Changsha to raise my AV to about 2,600. The Allies are pretty much ready now if Japan attacks.

Luzon: The enemy still hasn't arrived at Bataan. I'm glad this base is still holding out, but I'd like to see if Steve brings his five divisions or if he's already moved some of them out.

NoPac: The Paramushiro ships are loaded and at sea. Empty transports are bound for Dutch Island and Kodiak to load the Onnekotan-bound troops. I have additional troops at Pearl (mainly engineers and CDs) that will begin loading in a day or two, though they aren't absolutely necessary to participate in D-Day. The Allies will be in a position to invade in about two weeks, assuming confirmation is received that the KB is far away.

CenPac: The Japanese take vacant Baker Island on the 11th.

Hail Mary Plans: I am pretty confident that Steve's next move will be to attend to the DEI in a methodical manner. If, however, he tries a big leap somewhere vital (India, Hawaii, Oz), I think the Allies are ready and have good plans in place. The plans for each wouldn't be to counter such a move directly, but to ramp up operations in the DEI and/or NoPac in visible and aggressive ways.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 5:36:13 PM

Fishbed

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You're gonna have the Lex and the Sara upgrade right in the middle of the Paramushiro operation... They're supposed to be a backup force?

Isn't this upgrade the 8' turret to 5' turrent upgrade? Could take some time to get done...

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 5:54:20 PM

Canoerebel

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They're at Colombo, half a world away from the Kuriles. The Allied carriers won't be needed because the KB will be far away and there aren't any airfields bigger than level one within a range of 15 hexes.

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RE: Das darf nicht var sein! - 5/11/2011 5:59:04 PM

Fishbed

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From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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How will you bring airgroups to the place actually? Seems pretty remote to me for most 42' planes. Are there transports dedicated to transporting air groups in your first or second wave already?

Seabees will build the thing up in no time, like a new level every 3 or 4 turns, so these places could get serviceable pretty early I guess.

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