Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

I mean yeah I understand that troops in Aus marching on the trails on plain can have a speed of 10miles/day.

But the in the jungle of China and Burma? Come on!

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4.2.1.5 TRANSPORTATION LINKS
Transportation links are roads and railways that connect hexes and provide faster means of
movement between locations. The road network and railway network are separate networks,
so two hexes may be connected by a road, a railway, or both (or neither, of course). The types
of roads and railways are:

» Major Railway: Higher speed railways usually of standard or broad gauge.

» Minor Railway: Slower, narrow gauge railway lines.

» Transcontinental Railway: Special type of railway line ONLY used in the North
American “off map” areas (representing Eastern Canada and Eastern USA).
These railways provide free supply movement (that is, movement of supplies
will not incur any losses due to distance traveled) but are slower to move along
compared to Major railway lines, due to the distances in the North American
off-map areas being compressed to reduce the length of the land paths.

» Main Road: All weather - usually sealed - main roads.

» Secondary Road: Smaller or less well-built roads. Still
a faster way to move than cross country.

» Railway Trail: Railway lines that do not have co-located roads, are
able to be used by ground units by following the railway roadbeds. That
is, by walking or driving along the railway roadbeds, rather than using
actual trains. In game terms this ability is handled by the presence of
the “railway trail” road type along all railways that do not coexist with
main or secondary roads. No other trails exist on the map other than
along such railway lines. The existence of foot trails is assumed in all
hexes on the map that do not have roads defined, and this is accounted
for in the off-road movement rates. Therefore there are no actual “trails”
defined on the map except for along railway lines as described here.

The railway network can be viewed by pressing the ‘Y’ key, while the road network can be
viewed by pressing the ‘R’ key.

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Each receiving base that is in range of a base that has excess supplies and needs supplies will get them.

1st. every base that needs 1x requirement gets 1x. So this is one big loop through all bases so as to get maximum coverage and that every base gets at least 1x previously this was 3x only. Sending base will not send any supplies that would dip into its own 3x requirement and if add supply is being used then sending base guards up to 4x.

2nd every base that can get 3x or some portion there of will get it. So this is another big loop to see if we can get bases up to at least 3x requirement. Sending base will not send any supplies that would dip into its own 3x requirement.

3rd. every base that is eligible for excess normally this is big major bases or bases with the highest spoilage limit previously there was no check before sending supplies to small bases. Sending base will not send any supplies that would dip into its own 3x requirement.

4th. One final big loop through all bases to resupply LCUs and whatever base the LCU is at is the only base it can draw supplies from previously there was no restriction. If LCU is in non-base hex or enemy then no restriction. Sending base will guard up to 20 supply points meaning if a unit can be supplied and base has it then unit gets it, previously base had to have above 3x.

In each big loop except for the 4th the amount that can be sent is modified by Prim HQ of base (just like witp) and if present adds an extra 25k to requirement and we check for max draw and we check spoilage limit at base receiving base.

How far a base can receive supplies is determined by tracing a supply cost path starting value used is 100 just like witp. There are three different ranges used throughout each week 89 which is very short range and happens 4 times a week, 49 which is medium range and happens twice a week and 10 which is long range which happens once per week. These values are the minimum required trace value from sending base to receiving base and the trace value must be equal to or greater than this to receive supplies so you may notice that some bases only get supplies 3 times or in some cases once per week.

Using the add supply button means first the base will try and get 1x requirement then during the 3x loop it will try and get 3x whatever is in that field so a base has 1000 normal requirement and I press the add supply to 1000 making new requirement of 2000 thus 1x + 3x = 2000 + 6,000 = 8,000 that the base will try and get.


Short range is trace value of 89 - 100 and is used 4 times per week.
Medium range is trace value 49 - 100 and is used 2 times per week.
Long range is trace value 10 - 100 and is used 1 time per week.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Would you please tell me how fast should a Jap inf div go in this particular hex I highlighted in the pic?
And how do you do the math?

Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Would you please tell me how fast should a Jap inf div go in this particular hex I highlighted in the pic?
And how do you do the math?

Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

how about that two WR hex connected with secondary road.
According to your method it should be (4+4)/2=4miles/day, and in realistic it could less than 4miles/day, right?

That is my problem. It looks like that inf div is moving at 10miles/day between two WR hex connected with secondary rd at a speed of 10miles.

My problem is that the japs moving speed is much faster than I anticipated, I want to figure out it is because of new "move" order or some thing is wrong here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

As you can see in this picture, the Japs complete this march in about a month, with 5divs that are fully supplied.

My thought is that, according to the manual, inf unit moves at 10miles/day on trails, and in a hex with forest+rough, 4miles/day. My opponent said that his troops moves 10miles/day in the hex of jungle+rough with trails at a speed of 10miles day.

And when he get in, he had no problem of fully supplying these 5 Divs. Both the the march speed and supply level is unrealistic too me. It hard to image that Japs can do this in a WW2 scenario.

So my thought is that when it comes to decide what speed the troops can move, if there is road/trail, then the troops will move at the speed as it given on the manual. It didn't take consideration of the effect of the tough terrains. And the same thing happens when it decide the supply route. Anyway, it's just my feeling, you can correct me.

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And when he get in, he had no problem of fully supplying these 5 Divs. Both the the march speed and supply level is unrealistic too me. It hard to image that Japs can do this in a WW2 scenario.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You are missing the fact that I provided him information about supply and, more importantly, there is nothing specific about "no problem" as it provides no information about how much supply got there over how much time. Also he continues to miss the significance of the road, which moves supplies much faster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You are missing the fact that I provided him information about supply and, more importantly, there is nothing specific about "no problem" as it provides no information about how much supply got there over how much time. Also he continues to miss the significance of the road, which moves supplies much faster.

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ORIGINAL: CV 2

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You are missing the fact that I provided him information about supply and, more importantly, there is nothing specific about "no problem" as it provides no information about how much supply got there over how much time. Also he continues to miss the significance of the road, which moves supplies much faster.

I missed nothing.

What you seem to miss is that supply goes to units out in the middle of nowhere before it goes to units in bases. This is ass-backwards from my point of view. The supplies SHOULD move like they did, and still do in the modern world of global logistics. Distribution center to distribution center. In other words, base to base. A unit in the jungle north of Mandalay should NOT be getting supplies from Rangoon before the base at Mandalay itself does. The unit in the jungle can sit there, at full or near full supply and units in Mandalay will die as they watch the supply moving out into the jungle. Which is EXACTLY what is happening right now.

IMHO, the way it SHOULD work is a unit not in a base draws supply from the closest base. PERIOD. (ed. Closest base being defined as in supply movement points not raw distance - wanted to clarify that). If there arent supplies at that base, then someone (the player) or someTHING (the program) had better move some there. The unit in the bush should die BEFORE the unit in the base does, and the closer a unit is to a given base, the more likely it should be to get supplies from that base vs a unit further away does. In other words supplies passing through 1 unit are likely to get commadeered or outright plundered by the unit it is passing through. If you are out of ammo and/or out of food and starving, you are not going to just sit there and watch ammo trucks or sacks of rice walk right by you.

Kinda like REMFs and GRUNTs back in my day. the REMFs had all the goodies, and we got whatever they'd send us. Worked the same in WWII, I promise you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You are missing the fact that I provided him information about supply and, more importantly, there is nothing specific about "no problem" as it provides no information about how much supply got there over how much time. Also he continues to miss the significance of the road, which moves supplies much faster.

I had problems with the moving speed of troops and supply levels, thank you for your explanations I understand that it is a game setting not a glitch.

Then I'll complain about the unrealistic of this setting.



Please take a look about this picture, this is the the secondary road near Kienko. And this is the ONLY road into Sichuan basin(include Keinko, Chungking, Chengdu and Neikiang) from north. If the Chinese army are still controlling the Keinko base and surround area. There is no way that Jap can send any supplies into the basin from either Si'an or Ankang. Not mention for 5 Divs. It should be literally impassable except through Keinko.

Just my 2 cents.

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Wonder what the tunnel might have been used for?

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

Nice pic, but that part of things I can not help with. Neither can Michael in this Patch Thread, because it's part of the map. You might try posting an appeal in the "Map, Base, Economic Issues" thread in the main AE forum where it will catch Andrew's attention and perhaps the attention of scenario modders too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You are missing the fact that I provided him information about supply and, more importantly, there is nothing specific about "no problem" as it provides no information about how much supply got there over how much time. Also he continues to miss the significance of the road, which moves supplies much faster.

I missed nothing.

What you seem to miss is that supply goes to units out in the middle of nowhere before it goes to units in bases. This is ass-backwards from my point of view. The supplies SHOULD move like they did, and still do in the modern world of global logistics. Distribution center to distribution center. In other words, base to base. A unit in the jungle north of Mandalay should NOT be getting supplies from Rangoon before the base at Mandalay itself does. The unit in the jungle can sit there, at full or near full supply and units in Mandalay will die as they watch the supply moving out into the jungle. Which is EXACTLY what is happening right now.

IMHO, the way it SHOULD work is a unit not in a base draws supply from the closest base. PERIOD. (ed. Closest base being defined as in supply movement points not raw distance - wanted to clarify that). If there arent supplies at that base, then someone (the player) or someTHING (the program) had better move some there. The unit in the bush should die BEFORE the unit in the base does, and the closer a unit is to a given base, the more likely it should be to get supplies from that base vs a unit further away does. In other words supplies passing through 1 unit are likely to get commadeered or outright plundered by the unit it is passing through. If you are out of ammo and/or out of food and starving, you are not going to just sit there and watch ammo trucks or sacks of rice walk right by you.

Kinda like REMFs and GRUNTs back in my day. the REMFs had all the goodies, and we got whatever they'd send us. Worked the same in WWII, I promise you.

I agree with you. The supply system is a little broke here. My troops sitting in the jungle in China and Burma are fully supplied while the closest base has no supplies at all.

Anyway, is this the problem of AE or the patch?