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How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 4:56:29 AM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		Having recently received the gift of "Storm Over the Pacific" I played it and realized it was ok, but seriously lacking in too many ways. The biggest way being one unit per hex... bleah. As a consequence I stumbled into this forum. I had NO idea they released an Admiral's Edition of WitP!!

I spent a lot of hours playing Uncommon Valor and a friend and I would hang out at his place taking turns with WitP. Both of these games were great fun and satisfied my hunger for a detailed war game. Being an old time board gamer these sorts of games really appeal to my nature... Advanced Squad Leader anyone? hehe

My friends are mostly married and busy with kids while I find myself with more free time than I would like. If I was to scrape together the cash for this, would I find enough gamers available for PBEM games? I am anxiously looking for a download copy at this time to get started and look forward to a proper purchase by next week.

P.S. I have spent the last few days lurking in the forums and decided the temptation was too much. Work has been terrible for a number of years, but I think the investment in a solid war game is well worth the hours/days/weeks of fun. I still have a copy of PTO I with a SuperNES emulator I play on occasion.

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 5:07:03 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Very active PBM community. Have a look at the AAR section and consider that the great majority do not write an AAR.

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Post #: 2
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 5:26:52 AM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		I have had quite a read these last few days with AARs, tip postings, gameplay suggestions etc. With my previous experience I was able to make sense of a lot of things without holding a copy. I just want to be sure that if I scrape together the cash for this purchase I will not find myself playing only against a limited AI. Any player of WitP knows the many flaws of the AI there and I imagine it could only be improved upon by so much with this expansion/re-work. I think I have found a copy to begin my *beta* testing with. I do hope its as much fun as its previous incarnation :)

Thanks for the speedy response.

P.S. I managed to locate my old copy of UV, but I was quickly reminded before installing of why I put it away. Fun, but lacked enough of a time line and total immersion.

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 6:24:45 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Welcome Cyrus!

Just do a quick check over in the opponents wanted section, and there you may only see the tip of
the iceberg. Havent really seen an unanswered opponents wanted thread lately.

The AI has some surprises, but it has to cheat to be a challenge.

And to echo witpqs, the PBEM community is huge.



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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 10:56:06 AM   
bhawes

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/19/2010
Status: offline 		I'd like to add it's not all experten veterans looking for fish either, my request for a first time learning PBEM player like myself was well received and I had half a dozen replies from those who also wanted to break into the best part of the game. I found a well suited player match in a day.

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Post #: 5
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 1:32:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Good to hear. I've had the game for a few months and am almost ready for a PBEM myself. It's a daunting task to learn, but worth the time.

There definitely seem to be a lot of players still arriving, even though other games are luring away some veterans.

I'd like to brush up on the darkside and play against the Allies first, but I want to get through half a year of a game against the AI to know that I won't run the economy into the ground and give my opponent a poor game.



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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 1:51:02 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CyrusSpitama

I have had quite a read these last few days with AARs, tip postings, gameplay suggestions etc. With my previous experience I was able to make sense of a lot of things without holding a copy. I just want to be sure that if I scrape together the cash for this purchase I will not find myself playing only against a limited AI. Any player of WitP knows the many flaws of the AI there and I imagine it could only be improved upon by so much with this expansion/re-work. I think I have found a copy to begin my *beta* testing with. I do hope its as much fun as its previous incarnation :)

Thanks for the speedy response.

P.S. I managed to locate my old copy of UV, but I was quickly reminded before installing of why I put it away. Fun, but lacked enough of a time line and total immersion.


CS, welcome. I hope you decide to purchase and enjoy the game as much as we all do.

Re the AI--I play the AI and it will give you a good game. It is far superior to the AI in WITP. There is a definite AI vs. PBEM split in the forum, and PBEM has many advantages, but playing the AI does as well. Primary among them is the ability to play many turns in a sitting when you have that time. Also, I would recco you play pretty deep into an AI campaign game before you try a PBEM campaign. AE is an order of magnitude more complex than WITP was, and it has several definite "phases" to the campaign, just as the real war did. I play the Allies, and 1944 is a different game than 1942 in terms of size and complexity of force management.

Finally, I don't want to read something into your comments you didn't intend to put there, but the forum is HIGHLY supportive of the developers, who were and continue to be a volunteer group. As such, there is a culture here of absolute opposition to any playing of the game without first purchasing it. I know, from being a PC gamer since the 1970s, that there is a lot of "sampling" of PC games pre-purchase, for different reasons, and I do believe that you are test-driving before a purchase due to your financial situation. But I would caution you against bringing this up here.

If you buy you will find one of the most welcoming and supportive forums on the Internet (and I've seen hundreds.) I too am economically challenged at present, but if you do buy you willl find your other entertainment-related expenses decline. This game can consume as many hours as you offer it for years to come. It really is that deep.

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 2:19:59 PM   
Capt Hornblower


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/29/2010
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		Cyrus..., a note of caution. This "game" is a black hole into which all your free time will be sucked. If you're into detail and micromanagement of nearly all aspects of the Pacific War, this is the game for you. And your knowledge of Uncommon Valor will give you a leg up on those who haven't played it or the original WITP.

Bullwinkle, a question. How exactly does one play multiple turns at a sitting, given the number of bases and units to be looked at each turn? (Maybe I'm "playing" the game wrong.)

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Post #: 8
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 2:41:58 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

Bullwinkle, a question. How exactly does one play multiple turns at a sitting, given the number of bases and units to be looked at each turn? (Maybe I'm "playing" the game wrong.)


Mostly play style I suppose.

In the early months the turns are much longer of course. Ditto the late war, just from volume of units. In the middle, where I am, I can do a turn in 10-15 minutes pretty much. I use auto-convoy. I've backed off on some pilot training now that the pools are fat. I have only two amphib ops going (pre-Kwaj. and post-Hollandia/pre-Pelileu), on opposite sides of the map. I give China minimal attention, although I'm close to opening up Rangoon and can consider a Chinese renewal soon.

I, like most players I think, have a set routine every turn. I "go around the horn" of the off-map bases, and dispose of tasks there. Then I look at repairs at the major bases I know have needs--the usual suspects plus whatever front-line base is my current "collector." (Right now that is Rabaul.) Then I go to the Ships tab, sort my subs, and see if anyone needs to be pulled off patrol and sent home, or needs to be sent out. I check the DL of subs in HI waters, and sometimes elsewhere if there's been recent action. Then I work north up the WC, moving new ships, LCUs, and planes to SF. I do 95% of my shipping in and out of SF. In a PBEM game that wouldn't work, but the AI doesn't remember. I do something similar on the EC of Oz, plus Perth. Finally, I check withdrawls, and get ships moving home if necessary.

That's the housekeeping phase. About every week I'll also look at garrisons, sort bases by supply outages (but auto-convoy helps a lot here.) About once a month I'll sweep pilots into the pools. But after housekeeping I devote time to ongoing ops (ordering attacks, rest, movement, prep), look at critical CAP units for repair and morale, adjust bombing as needed in active theaters, and plan/get loading the next op.

I do things like CO replacement only on major units. I don't hyper-manage TOE upgrades. I don't fiddle with having many small fuel dumps and things like that. I'm more of a "hammer" player than a "scalpel." If I ever do play a PBEM game my opponent won't need to worry about feints. I don't sweat losses too much; I go for the throat.

Yesterday I played 6-days of turns in 1-day chunks while watching Daytona with one eye. An average Sunday.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/21/2011 2:43:15 PM >

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 3:13:32 PM   
Capt Hornblower


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/29/2010
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Mostly play style I suppose.
.
.
.
Yesterday I played 6-days of turns in 1-day chunks while watching Daytona with one eye. An average Sunday.


Moose, that's impressive. I guess to really make progress, you have to have the gameplay down to a science.

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Post #: 10
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 3:18:13 PM   
sdhundt

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 9/6/2002
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Before you do take on any experienced Jap. opponent you MUST definitely read a few AAR's.  You can just jump in after playing the AI but a good Jap. player I'm sorry to say would most likely crush you.  Just some friendly advice  :-} 

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Post #: 11
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 3:59:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Mostly play style I suppose.
.
.
.
Yesterday I played 6-days of turns in 1-day chunks while watching Daytona with one eye. An average Sunday.


Moose, that's impressive. I guess to really make progress, you have to have the gameplay down to a science.


As I implied, my style is rare. Most AE players are "grinders" who sweat more details than I do. I prefer to look at omissions on my part as the friction of war, miscommunication, laziness on the part of draftees, bad weather, insect infestations, and dumb-ass political moves. The truth is, if you survive 1942 as the Allies, you're going to win the war.

I also vary my turn count depending on what's going on. In this game I've been in-and-out of 2-day turns at least five times. When I'm building a supply dump, moving lots of amphibs forward, doing a major, block upgrade, etc. I'll jump to 2-day turns for two or three weeks and get by that phase. You still need to do all of the steps I outlined before, but only half as many times. Your ships also seem to miraculously repair twice as fast.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/21/2011 4:00:06 PM >

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 4:08:12 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sdhundt

Before you do take on any experienced Jap. opponent you MUST definitely read a few AAR's.  You can just jump in after playing the AI but a good Jap. player I'm sorry to say would most likely crush you.  Just some friendly advice  :-} 


I doubt he should be playing experienced Japanese players in a first PBEM game. That said, I think few "experienced Japanese opponents" have ever gotten to late 1944 and 1945. They strut and preen over their 1942 steamrolling, but leave the game before getting their hind parts handed to them by the majestic revenge machine that is the late war Allied juggernaut.

So, in summary, PHHHHHTTHHBBBT!!!! (That's a Bronx Cheer, BTW. )



< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/21/2011 4:09:15 PM >

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 5:36:21 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		Bullwinkle58, you are correct in your assumption. I am simply test driving before purchase or I would not have the gonads to post it here. I shall let this point lie without much further to say other than this:

My financial situation is pretty bad and has been so for far too long now. I simply cannot afford to burn 80-90 bucks on a game that may sit idle in my closet. For anyone who disagrees with this test driving I pose a question. Would you dare purchase a car without test driving or home without viewing it in detail first? Those decisions require careful scrutiny and are not whimsical purchases. My financial situation is bad enough that I must justify any expenditure beyond basic necessities, hence my car/home analogy is clearly justified in my eyes.

I too fully believe in supporting developers and have every intention of doing so. It is sad to see how common it is for the average folk to give no support to good game developers when there are so few these days. How I miss the early days of Microprose...Or the many lost hours at Star Control... Too many games these days are full of eye candy and devoid of any real content.

My piece has been said and shall not be revisited. On to the next piece:

Thanks for the multiple responses and I look forward to matching up with some of you in the near future. I have already started my first few turns without doing too much just to see how basic things work. Boy do I have to absorb a lot of detail! At least I have my prior UV and WitP playtime to help make SOME sense of things:) Japan is my preferred choice for most games of this style, but I can see it may be easier on me to get the mechanics down by playing Allies for the first couple of rounds. I did dive right into the full campaign and have many, many questions waiting to be asked very soon. One question for now:

quote:

I doubt he should be playing experienced Japanese players in a first PBEM game. That said, I think few "experienced Japanese opponents" have ever gotten to late 1944 and 1945. They strut and preen over their 1942 steamrolling, but leave the game before getting their hind parts handed to them by the majestic revenge machine that is the late war Allied juggernaut.


Is there such a thing as Japanese victory if I cannot beat the Allies solidly by the end of '42? ( I am speaking of average players vs. average player or even Human Japan vs. Allied AI.)

< Message edited by CyrusSpitama -- 2/21/2011 5:37:07 PM >

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 5:52:25 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

As I implied, my style is rare. Most AE players are "grinders" who sweat more details than I do. I prefer to look at omissions on my part as the friction of war, miscommunication, laziness on the part of draftees, bad weather, insect infestations, and dumb-ass political moves. The truth is, if you survive 1942 as the Allies, you're going to win the war.


Moose say funny tink.

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Post #: 15
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 6:21:24 PM   
sdhundt

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 9/6/2002
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Well as the Japs. you can get an Auto victory. Personally I don't play the Auto victory just for the fact that I don't like a game ending because you hit some magical victory point thingy.

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Post #: 16
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 6:43:05 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		Ah, Microprose! I played/owned most of their games. A Golden Age we may never see the likes of again. I actually interviewed for a job in marketing there when I left Kraft. Sat in Wild Bill Stealy's office in my sincere grey suit and talked MBAish with him (he was an ex-McKinsey consultant as I recall. Also USAF academy grad.) Didn't get a job, but I did spot Sid Meier plodding across the lobby, wearing a yellow aloha shirt, barefoot, going for some go-juice. This was right before Civ1 hit the street, so I imagine he was putting in the hours.

As for your last question, there are lots of threads about the difference between the Japanese player winning the war, and winning the game. Also lots of debate over auto-victory conditions and existence as a game mechanism. Do some poking around. I believe there were quite a few posts in the past two months in Canoerebel's AAR, as well as the main forum.

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 6:44:07 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

As I implied, my style is rare. Most AE players are "grinders" who sweat more details than I do. I prefer to look at omissions on my part as the friction of war, miscommunication, laziness on the part of draftees, bad weather, insect infestations, and dumb-ass political moves. The truth is, if you survive 1942 as the Allies, you're going to win the war.


Moose say funny tink.



Rare and valuable praise coming from you, sir. I read your AAR whenever I need a belly laugh.

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Post #: 18
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/21/2011 11:53:25 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"Is there such a thing as Japanese victory if I cannot beat the Allies solidly by the end of '42? ( I am speaking of average players vs. average player or even Human Japan vs. Allied AI.) "

I haven't checked the manual to see if the victory conditions have changed, but in WITP if the game goes into 1946 the best the allied player can get is a draw.

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Post #: 19
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/22/2011 3:26:42 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"Is there such a thing as Japanese victory if I cannot beat the Allies solidly by the end of '42? ( I am speaking of average players vs. average player or even Human Japan vs. Allied AI.) "

I haven't checked the manual to see if the victory conditions have changed, but in WITP if the game goes into 1946 the best the allied player can get is a draw.


There are still penalties for excessive A-bomb use too (3 or more loses one level for the Allies.) This is in addition to the 1946 rule. So if you hang on and get melted, you too can win a marginal victor, or even a decisive if the VP spread was just right.

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/22/2011 6:27:05 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		The AAR forum usually turns itself over in 24 hours and 36 hours on the weekend. I think that says it all right there.

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Post #: 21
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/22/2011 11:30:38 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
That said, I think few "experienced Japanese opponents" have ever gotten to late 1944 and 1945. They strut and preen over their 1942 steamrolling, but leave the game before getting their hind parts handed to them by the majestic revenge machine that is the late war Allied juggernaut.

Ah, so.

Another common outcome for an early war PBEM Japanese steamrolling is that the Allied player develops mysterious and intractable internet / technology / computer problems and / or spontaneous real-life problems and begs off on the game altogether. I would say that I've personally seen this approach and certainly heard of other Japanese players in a similar predicament. Some Allied players will deny the Japanese player any opportunity at winning by dropping the game.

My advice to the OP: choose your PBEM partners most carefully. They should be experienced PBEM partners and you should be very selective in engaging in this long-term relationship. You've got something to offer and you need not feel compelled to take the first offer extended to you.

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RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/22/2011 1:20:16 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Another common outcome for an early war PBEM Japanese steamrolling is that the Allied player develops mysterious and intractable internet / technology / computer problems and / or spontaneous real-life problems and begs off on the game altogether. I would say that I've personally seen this approach and certainly heard of other Japanese players in a similar predicament. Some Allied players will deny the Japanese player any opportunity at winning by dropping the game.


Which is one reason I advocate no one starting an Allied PBEM campaign until they've played as Allies through to 1945-46. The second half of the Allied game is really a different game. Harder than 1942 in many ways due to sheer volume of units, but also satisfying. If you don't have that patience at least play a Downfall versus the AI. If all I knew was 1942 over and over and over I'd get discouraged too.


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Post #: 23
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/22/2011 3:25:23 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		This thread is getting a lot of hits because readers mistake it for a wife swapping club.

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Post #: 24
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/22/2011 3:53:30 PM   
sdhundt

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 9/6/2002
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Funniest thing I have read today, "wife swapping club"  LOL

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Post #: 25
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/25/2011 5:30:22 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		Thanks again for all the responses. It is encouraging to see the forums active enough for a nub's topic to see such activity. As for the wife swapping, I did not contribute a wife but, I will contribute beer if there is pics involved :P

(Yes, I did go there because well.. this IS the intarwebs)

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Post #: 26
RE: How active is the PBEM community here? - 2/25/2011 11:54:16 PM   
Patbgaming

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		You guys are just probably trying to swap wives as your gives you " The Look " when you boot up your PC.


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