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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 5:55:46 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		No need for a corridor...Moscow will hold out.






-edit - note I intentionally left out defensive strengths and forts here, no need to broadcast just how weak I am...

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< Message edited by PeeDeeAitch -- 4/2/2011 6:01:49 PM >

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 6:23:04 PM   
karonagames


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Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		@PDH. Could you give an idea of the number of attacks the Sovs were making each turn during the blizzard - I don't get the impression that it was the 80+ we saw in previous AARs.



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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 6:48:46 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		No, it wasn't nearly that amount.  We are using your proposed house rule, and the state of unreadiness plus my pull back meant that there were very few attacks in December (11 Dec saw a total of 8 attacks, for instance) - I had routed 50-70 units in the snow and those effects were felt.

More recently, with fewer fronts attacking but more readiness, I have seen more attacks. 1/1/42 Saw 25 deliberate attacks with 8 holds.  Feb 19 saw 21 attacks, 6 holds.

All in all, my winter has been light.  Cpt Flam has said he has 1.2 million men in the manpower pool. I know that I captured all of Stalino's armaments before they were evacuated (no blame to him, I made a 200-mile penetration), so I think that he has suffered from armaments bottlenecks since then.  This, combined with the fact that I focused on making a large portion of his army unready/routed right before blizzard helped me to no end.

Combine all those with my willingness to retreat 6-8 hexes in many places the first month and a half of blizzard, and I limited the damage to myself.

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 6:52:31 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Here is a truncated look at the squads for turn 36 - one more blizzard turn.




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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 6:58:43 PM   
karonagames


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Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Do you think the house rules were over-generous to you?

I based them on my test game with Speedy, in which the soviets had not got beaten up to the same degree as in your game, and I could make 80+ attacks easily, so I pro-rated the front numbers to that baseline.

I think your AAR shows the template for future games, and clearly shows that the the better you do before the blizzard, the better you will do during the blizzard. There are a lot of similarities to my game with Trey except you got all of Moscow, and I only got 1 hex.

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Post #: 335
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 8:10:53 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Yes, I think that the house rule made it far easier on me.  I focused not only on destroying units, but in the snow turns actively harming/routing units. Had there not been the house rules, according to Cpt Flam, December would still have been very mild - he was just too unready in too many places, units still routed, and I had room to retreat from obvious ready and menacing stacks.

Part of the problem so far with winters has been both the newness of the game (this was only my 3rd PBEM winter, maybe my 8th overall including AI), and the problems that show up time and again with running the Germans well in 1941.  When December comes for many, the Soviets are either far too unhurt or conversely the Axis does not have fall back room.

I am of the mindset (as I have said here before) that I am going to lose ground anyway in the blizzard.  If the Soviets can, in part, stymie the Germans by well executed fall-backs, the the Germans should do that as well.  Still, if the German player finds Blizzard upon them and they are in stuck somewhere slightly east of Smolensk and not to the Donets cities...well, the point is moot.

The thing that strikes me again and again is that I did not run a perfect campaign here, far from it.  However, I wanted to hold the initiative and strike where I could over and over - this allowed me to reach the lines that I did.  I am sure my tactics would horrify many.  Often I broke through multiple lines with corps-sized stacks of tanks/motorized, and my attrition in the Panzer Corps was very high.  Still, it is my play style and it worked here.

"...the better you do before the blizzard, the better you will do during the blizzard" should be the mantra of all Axis players. 

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Post #: 336
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/2/2011 10:07:20 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		And for those who are interested. Note the 402 Bicycle Recon Bn is still a powerhouse.  Thank god for my mountain-biking scouts.

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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 337
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 12:40:35 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Ok, the worst feeling in the world is jonesing for a turn - especially when you know it is too late where your opponent is to get one sent to you! I want winter over, and it still has time.

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Post #: 338
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:40:27 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Last turn of blizzard sent. Now, if Cpt Flam decides to do nothing, I am in the clear!

Moscow will hold - well, barring the worst set of die rolls in history. This comes from the man that attacked the Dutch in Third Reich at 2-1 odds, rolled a "5" for counter attack 1-1, the Dutch rolled a "6" to elimintate all the attackers...

The 3rd and 4th Panzers have spent much of the winter in Moscow and surrounding cities, shortly they will have to venture out into the warm March snow to try and help out. We are playing with Bob's house rules, so I only get one army group to attack with next turn. Both panzer groups are in the Center...so that might be decided...





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Post #: 339
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:44:34 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		In the far south, I am proud of my boys. They have done so well I plan to let them storm a well defended major city sometime in 1942.

The best place to defend, given how I ended up, and the losses here were the smallest. In front of Rostov, only 20 miles were lost. Voroshilovgrad saw losees of perhaps 70 miles. The problem child is north of the Donets, where there has been a lot of ground lost. Here, had my weakness been known earlier, I would have had to lose all my snow-attack ability because it was that dire. As it is, once I am free to do so, the 1st Panzer is ready to spring out.






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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 340
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:47:06 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		The front as a whole. I was forced to abandon my Oder River retreat plan, It would have been super, but when I learned that the Soviets would just advance all blizard and I couldn't come back to the winter start line, I had to give that up. Instead, by craftily falling back and allowing my divisions to be totally decimated by winter, I have managed to claw my way into a somewhat ok position.

Now, I just have to spring back into full 1941 effectiveness and march to the Pacific.






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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 341
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:48:09 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Losses comparing turns 24 with turn 37 (my part).





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_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

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Post #: 342
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:48:50 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		OOB in turn 37






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_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

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Post #: 343
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:49:29 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Finally, squads through 37





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_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 344
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 3:54:01 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Now for the fun part. What to do. Snow will see the "setting things to right" phase of winter. I do not expect huge things here. Even though I have not been to badly hurt, I have been hurt. Units will not just snap back, and whole portions of the line have been filled up with crybabies who demand I give up.

Some of the problems of deciding where to strike in 1942 have been decided. Some armies are so weak they make the romanians look like elite stormtroopers. I have managed to horde some troops, and I expect the refitting during the mud will help morale a bit.

Mostly, think a good plan for 1942 is to take all my strong forces, and strike toward Stalingrad. To the south I will have wide open spaces undermanned by a few regiments, while the Romanians, Hungarians, and Italians guard my flanks along the Don. I see nothing that can go wrong with this.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

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Post #: 345
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:26:51 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		God I love the snow. Pics coming up.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

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Post #: 346
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:33:20 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
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Status: offline 		try to listen to your inner Manstein when planning

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:34:05 PM   
Ketza


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From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Actually the Stalingrad idea has merit as long as you come close enough to force the factories to leave and then well... leave yourself.

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Post #: 348
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:53:56 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Well, the snow saw the Panzer Armies come out nicely, as it should since they were roasting marshmallows in the cities when the foot-sloggers were freezing. Well, it was time for them to do their duty. Playing with BigA's house rules, I could attack with one armygroup - I chose South. Here I had the combination of two Panzer Armies and a host of crappy infantry. My initial plans had been to cut off the bulge east of Kharkov, but Cpt Flam sensed this and started a pull back. Still, I had the tanks and a plan...wait, a plan?





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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 349
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:55:27 PM   
karonagames


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Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		To get the Decisive, you need every city between Moscow and the Volga.

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:57:22 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		The attack kicked off with the 1st Panzer striking north. The infantry of IV corps and the Mountain boys did what they could, it was up to the pampered tankers with their suntans from the UV lamps I gave them in December.

Note, I am still using the "panzer bludgeon" offensive tactics. I don't have infantry, and really those panzer IIIg models are pretty invulnerable, aren't they?





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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 351
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 8:59:07 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Eventually, the 1st and 2nd Panzer met. Ersatz cheese and tinned mutton was enjoyed by all!





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Post #: 352
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:00:56 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Recovery. I said the winter was harsh, it was not nearly as bad as it has been. The damage I caused in 1941 meant that my troops died in droves going to the latrine, but not so much from enemy fire. Here is the Moscow region, showing some of the recovery. Army Group Center is next in line to try and attack, though here the fortifications are much higher.





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Post #: 353
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:02:33 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Finally, the boring stuff that BigA wanted. Sheesh, I could have just made up the numbers, but he wanted "data" that "meant something" and was "useful." (imagine the finger motions for each set of quotations)





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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 354
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:03:17 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Losses, turn 24-38. As I said earlier, I got out lucky from this.






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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 355
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:07:43 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Now I don't know how things will feel after the nearly 247 turns of mud, followed by the annoying mud-clear-mud turns, but right now things look Good. Competitions such as "Race to Kubyshev" are being planned for the nice months. In a fit of generosity I have turned over my "escape stock portfolio" to the local orphanage. No need for that, nothing can go wrong!

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

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Post #: 356
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:07:44 PM   
karonagames


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Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
quote:

Finally, the boring stuff that BigA wanted. Sheesh, I could have just made up the numbers, but he wanted "data" that "meant something" and was "useful." (imagine the finger motions for each set of quotations)


I can imagine the little waggly finger movements, but I think you need to hide this so-called "data" from all the whiney "The Blizzard is broken" gang, because they won't like what they are seeing!

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Post #: 357
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:09:31 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
I can imagine the little waggly finger movements, but I think you need to hide this so-called "data" from all the whiney "The Blizzard is broken" gang, because they won't like what they are seeing!


Pfft, they will say it is an aberration, that I got lucky...facts won't deter a good idea.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

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Post #: 358
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:11:37 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Oh, and Color? I wasn't totally faithful to your Rubberband notion. But note this, for what it is worth. The 2nd Army and the 6th Army in the Big Empty Middle followed this the most, and they had a far larger "bounce back" of CV than did the 16th and 9th Armies in the north that held the line.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

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Post #: 359
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/3/2011 9:12:51 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I think you should go back to T25 and play without the house rules - go for the iron man game!

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Post #: 360
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