RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis)

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 6:26:48 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Ok, there's going to be a massive infiltration. The point is these units are here to stop the Panzers from a) doing a right hook and b) advance towards Moscow.

Even if this operation does not work, that should make him lose minimum 2 turns which might be vital... he could resume operations let's say on turn 15 (and mud hits three turns later). I might lose 5 or 6 divisions but that might save Leningrad.

And of course I am supposed to have some fun too! In other words, I want to terrorise him! Let's see if that can be done!

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< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/26/2011 6:28:57 PM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 7:50:02 PM

mmarquo

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TD -

You have 3 more months before you can form cavalry corps - use the divisions with the high mps to help the infiltrations for now. I like your aggressive spirit - but you can't be attacking and causing Axis units to retreat so early because the game is broken.... so I've heard....

Marquo

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 7:56:02 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

but you can't be attacking and causing Axis units to retreat�so early because the game is broken.... so I've heard....�

Eh???!!!

Where have they said the Soviets can't attack? In fact I want to cut off + ISOLATE.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 7:56:57 PM

Pipewrench

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

TD -

but you can't be attacking and causing Axis units to retreat�so early because the game is broken.... so I've heard....�

Marquo

shhhhh!!

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Post #: 394

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 8:32:57 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In the Kalinin Front he keeps advancing at snail's pace. One successful counter-atack here.

Marquo, could you please say where they said that Soviets cannot attack and that the game is broken?

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 8:35:53 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In the Western Front more snail's pace thing

Vitebsk should fall pretty soon (perhaps maximum 2 turns). But Smolensk... I could hold the city until mud season. And then...

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 8:43:26 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In the northern part of the Southwest Front, the 4 Panzer Division wanted to get some... again

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< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/26/2011 8:44:25 PM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 8:50:06 PM

mmarquo

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"Marquo, could you please say where they said that Soviets cannot attack and that the game is broken?

"

TD -

This is the banter uttered by pundits who like to decry the game as broken everytime things do not go their way on the battlefield; sorry to have confused you - you are doing great!

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 8:59:16 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"Marquo, could you please say where they said that Soviets cannot attack and that the game is broken? "

TD -

This is the banter uttered� by pundits who like to decry the game as broken everytime things do not go their way on the battlefield; sorry to have confused you - you are doing great!

TD, don't you remember the "Utter Madness!!!"

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 9:11:41 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Aaaaah ok

That was a sarcastic comment, I see. Sorry, I didn't get it

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 9:30:01 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And the Southwest part II

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 9:31:40 PM

TulliusDetritus

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The fascist hordes are finally at the gates of Crimea.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 10:33:55 PM

Reconvet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

TD, my following comments are not meant to diminish your excellent performance. I'd be perfectly happy to get a sovjet player like you because a) you don't make major mistakes, b) you have an excellent eye to foresee and exploit your opponent's mistakes, so c) I'd get a really challenging and fun game out of it.

BUT: I really don't understand what your opponent is doing in AGN. How the hell can he drive his fuel and supply hungry mobile units into this supply vaccum there, faaaar faaaaaaaar away from his realhead and any rail lines, into terrain even more straining his supply situation for these units, straight into mountainous terrain (most hostile for panzers aside of swamps), without proper flank protection and just begging to get them cut off.

I can only see it as a kamikaze move, possibly to have an excuse to bug out of this game (in the line of "sorry pal, game-breaking mistake of mine, let's restart with patch 1.04..."). No way this AAR will see spring '42, as sorry as I'm to say that. My favorite AAR so far, it's devastating to see such poor axis performance. You deserve way better than that.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 10:52:52 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Well, don't forget he must move now

What might seem a mistake could be in fact 5 or 6 Soviet divisions in the bag.

I don't know what his plans are, but given that he hasn't moved these panzers a lot maybe he is simply trying to protect his right flank (maybe because he knows what happened on my other game, exactly at the same place, still that's the infantry's job). The funny thing is that those who should be protecting this right flank (if that's their mission) are now outflanked and isolated.

I insist, he must move. But yes, no matter what, he's lost like 2 turns here. And of course some AGN infantry should be helping these panzers. They will NOT be fighting near Leningrad to support the advance to capture the city (if he wants to capture it, that is, which I don't know). So overall I think this operation is not totally idiotic

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/26/2011 11:54:25 PM

Klydon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

TD, my following comments are not meant to diminish your excellent performance. I'd be perfectly happy to get a sovjet player like you because a) you don't make major mistakes, b) you have an excellent eye to foresee and exploit your opponent's mistakes, so c) I'd get a really challenging and fun game out of it.

BUT: I really don't understand what your opponent is doing in AGN. How the hell can he drive his fuel and supply hungry mobile units into this supply vaccum there, faaaar faaaaaaaar away from his realhead and any rail lines, into terrain even more straining his supply situation for these units, straight into mountainous terrain (most hostile for panzers aside of swamps), without proper flank protection and just begging to get them cut off.

I can only see it as a kamikaze move, possibly to have an excuse to bug out of this game (in the line of "sorry pal, game-breaking mistake of mine, let's restart with patch 1.04..."). No way this AAR will see spring '42, as sorry as I'm to say that. My favorite AAR so far, it's devastating to see such poor axis performance. You deserve way better than that.

I think this is a bit unfair to 2ndACR, but then I also understand there is little middle ground. In most people's opinion, a player either sucks or is quite the operator. Having watched several of 2ndACR's AAR's, my opinion is he is a middle of the pack player. I can't go into too much detail here since I have read his AAR on this game, although he has not posted on it recently (probably trying to get caught up on his games after computer issues), but reading over that, it is sort of clear what is going on from the German side and it is likely to be fatal unless he can pull something out. Fair to say, this is not one of his better games and my guess is he is not happy with his performance.

Also in fairness to TD, he plays a lot different than most Russians do. He has a sound basic plan and he sticks to it.

Very entertaining AAR and I continue to learn a lot from this AAR as far as both Axis and Russian play go.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 12:54:10 AM

Q-Ball

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I agree with Klydon, hate to pile on 2ndACR because he is a great sport and contributes alot around here.

He has some good overall ideas, I played him briefly as the Soviets, and found that his flank security was poor, and he was too aggressive with his Panzers. If you can get a swarm of units around, that's a real problem for the Germans.

The other thing is that I think Tullius here plays a very good Soviet defense that would probably frustrate anyone, including me. He doesn't stack his guys, digs everywhere, uses ZOC to his advantage, and build carpets of units.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 1:11:25 AM

Mynok

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TD is a formidable Soviet. My assessment as an Axis player is that careful hiding of one's main intentions is critical against him.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 1:39:04 AM

TulliusDetritus

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Thank you very much for the compliments

I'm not sure I truly deserve them though (I'm more an AI guy)

Mynok, if we talk about this KO Tournament aka the first 17 Turns of the GC, that's hard, really hard (I mean, hiding your intentions as the Gemans).

The Germans have 17 turns to achieve their objectives. They cannot speculate. They must focus on their objectives and of course get them if they can.

I don't know what 2ndACR objectives are. BUT I do know where he is concentrating his most dangerous units (4 Panzer Armies): his objectives must not be very far from the Panzers destination... He can't hide them. Wherever they will go, I will always try to concentrate hordes in their path. On my case, Leningrad is prioritary... the south will have to wait though.

On the 1942 campaign I guess [German] surprises are possible. But on the first 17 turns...

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/27/2011 1:41:21 AM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 8:38:59 AM

Encircled

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Another cracking move Tullus

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 11:53:26 AM

Reconvet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I think this is a bit unfair to 2ndACR, but then I also understand there is little middle ground. In most people's opinion, a player either sucks or is quite the operator. Having watched several of 2ndACR's AAR's, my opinion is he is a middle of the pack player. I can't go into too much detail here since I have read his AAR on this game, although he has not posted on it recently (probably trying to get caught up on his games after computer issues), but reading over that, it is sort of clear what is going on from the German side and it is likely to be fatal unless he can pull something out. Fair to say, this is not one of his better games and my guess is he is not happy with his performance.

Also in fairness to TD, he plays a lot different than most Russians do. He has a sound basic plan and he sticks to it.

Very entertaining AAR and I continue to learn a lot from this AAR as far as both Axis and Russian play go.

Sure it is a harsh assessment from my side. Of course ACR is a helpful contributor to this forum, sure he had mainboard problems and may have been in a hurry to get his new turn out, but sending these mobile units into mountains without minimal left flank support, without owning any rail line nearby (supply!!) was a very poor move. No way you can sugarcoat this.

Of course TD playes different. But for both players the big fun lies in adapting to your opponent, trying to develop counter tactics to overcome what is thrown in your direction. I'm really disappointed to see ACR (combat vet as far as I know) operate without survival instincts.

I'm not confident that this excellent AAR for sovjet tactics students will stay alive on an acceptable axis quality level much longer. I feel sorry for TD, he deserves more than a half-hearted opponent.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 2:45:14 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Reconvert, I think you are being too harsh with 2ndACR. We all make mistakes

I am having a lot of fun with the game so fair play. As Q-Ball said when I started cutting some of his units off, he ALWAYS manages to save them, "get them back in supply" as he said on the email. It's true that every time I cut some units off he candidly says (on the emails) "no problem, back in supply". But I think he's wrong, yes, there is a small problem in my opinion. With these maneuvers he is losing turns here and there, and that's exactly what I am looking for: mud is just around the corner

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 3:01:51 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I think this is a bit unfair to 2ndACR, but then I also understand there is little middle ground. In most people's opinion, a player either sucks or is quite the operator. Having watched several of 2ndACR's AAR's, my opinion is he is a middle of the pack player. I can't go into too much detail here since I have read his AAR on this game, although he has not posted on it recently (probably trying to get caught up on his games after computer issues), but reading over that, it is sort of clear what is going on from the German side and it is likely to be fatal unless he can pull something out. Fair to say, this is not one of his better games and my guess is he is not happy with his performance.

Also in fairness to TD, he plays a lot different than most Russians do. He has a sound basic plan and he sticks to it.

Very entertaining AAR and I continue to learn a lot from this AAR as far as both Axis and Russian play go.

Sure it is a harsh assessment from my side. Of course ACR is a helpful contributor to this forum, sure he had mainboard problems and may have been in a hurry to get his new turn out, but sending these mobile units into mountains without minimal left flank support, without owning any rail line nearby (supply!!) was a very poor move. No way you can sugarcoat this.

Of course TD playes different. But for both players the big fun lies in adapting to your opponent, trying to develop counter tactics to overcome what is thrown in your direction. I'm really disappointed to see ACR (combat vet as far as I know) operate without survival instincts.

I'm not confident that this excellent AAR for sovjet tactics students will stay alive on an acceptable axis quality level much longer. I feel sorry for TD, he deserves more than a half-hearted opponent.

And of course you will step up now and show you can do better?

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 3:13:29 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Turn 13

11 september 1941

Well, I guess this is the last phase of the Blitzkrieg. The whole picture has somewhat changed. First of all, apparently my maneuver south of Lake Ilmen has possibly 100% saved Leningrad. The AGN Panzers that were �charging like a bull� in Leningrad area have been diverted to south of Lake Ilmen, hmm, to help the AGC Panzers I had isolated in the Valdai Hills? Or is that part of his plan? I don�t think so. That would be an erratic behaviour.

In the Center, the Panzers are more or less back. They managed to break my Bryansk Front and are near Bryansk now. And in the South he has concentrated his panzers between Kursk and Kharkov.

Oh, and I got my First Guards Rifle Division (former 64 Rifle Division)!

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 3:22:25 PM

TulliusDetritus

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A screenshot with the new enemy dispositions and possible targets

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 5:00:19 PM

pompack

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I feel a lot of sympathy for ACR since I found myself in a similar position in WitP: I started a game with AmiralLaurent at the very beginning and the AAR ran for four years. And very popular it was too. I was a typical beginner; Laurent was arguably the best WitP Japanese player with an AAR. So for four years I was trounced in everything that I did and set new records for mistakes made, discussed and disected. I trained a whole generation of players in how NOT to play WitP as Allies. I was also allowed (by the terms of our AAR agreement) to read any AAR item more than three months old. So I got to read the extensive discussions analyzing my mistakes. Since the mistakes were real, the discussions made me a better player. Comments like "doesn't know how to use a/c" were certainly true and accepted. However I did find the cheap shots from the gallery somewhat wounding.

In closing I consider that when ACR reads the discussions about his mistakes and possible blunders it will be a good learning experience for him. However I know from experience that some of the comments bandyed about here will not only hurt, they are undeserved.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 5:29:27 PM

alfonso

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When reading any AAR, I like to remember an old Spanish expression...

"ver los toros desde la barrera"

"to watch the bullfight from the barrera", to keep me apart of any undue criticism.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 5:31:25 PM

TulliusDetritus

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I remember AmiralLaurent: the Pearl Harbor grabber

The point is we all make mistakes, methinks. And we are not supposed to be Manstein or Zhukov either

And above all this game is only a few months old: we (noobs) all are learning how it works. And -I know I repeat that a lot- playing as the Germans is MUCH more complicated, in my opinion. 17 turns... if you don't use them wisely you are doomed. The Soviets on the other hand can afford quite many catastrophes, mistakes.

Sooooo fair play

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 6:05:27 PM

Reconvet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

And of course you will step up now and show you can do better?

I'm visiting this forum while waiting for 1.04. This patch will turn this game upside down in prepping and surviving first blizzard season for axis.

After I've played AI again to get to grips with the changes you'll get the opportunity to comment my mistakes as axis. But you won't see me sending tanks and mot divs to fight in swamps and mountains.

We'll see how long this game lasts.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 7:03:44 PM

Pipewrench

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Tullius,

be very very careful in looking at a move a player makes as a mistake. or a weakness. It might just be a probe to gauge your reaction and at the same time show reckless unpredictability to stroke your ego and make you just a little paranoid.

me thinks there is an ulterior motive at play. of course pigs fly and ex-wife's are best friends in my rational world.

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Post #: 419

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/27/2011 7:30:57 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Could be

But I think he is running out of time. He's got four more turns. Panzers will then be stuck = encirclements are over. And as for normal attacks: divided by 8... And after that I guess he should start thinking about blizzard (I will be using Big Anorak's rule).

Whatever he might be planning, he should be doing it. Now

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