RE: Waiting to buy and future patches

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 5:29:35 AM

Uxbridge

Posts: 1505
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From: Uppsala, Sweden
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A very nice list, Joe. I especially like rule change 4 and formula change 9.

Good luck with the blizzard issue.

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 5:43:23 AM

jomni

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Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
This is Matrix Games and 2by3 we are talking about. I don't think I have purchased a game from any other game companies since I joined.
Look at War in the Pacific, been out for years now and still has active support.

Eh? 2by3 stopped supporting WITP even without fixing some major bugs. WITP (in the form of AE) is now supported by Henderson Field. Anyway, bottom line is that you still get support for a very long time for these games from Matrix. But there is still the danger of any game stopping development before it's prime and no one can deny that. But people having faith in a game can guarantee its longevity by parting with their money for further development.

As for WITE, even without the patches, I already enjoyed version 1.00 from the get go. It's just those vocal historian/grognards who are complaining a lot. But things are still changing for the better.

< Message edited by jomni -- 3/11/2011 5:53:51 AM >

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 6:11:17 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
This is Matrix Games and 2by3 we are talking about. I don't think I have purchased a game from any other game companies since I joined.
Look at War in the Pacific, been out for years now and still has active support.

Eh? 2by3 stopped supporting WITP even without fixing some major bugs. WITP (in the form of AE) is now supported by Henderson Field. Anyway, bottom line is that you still get support for a very long time for these games from Matrix. But there is still the danger of any game stopping development before it's prime and no one can deny that. But people having faith in a game can guarantee its longevity by parting with their money for further development.

As for WITE, even without the patches, I already enjoyed version 1.00 from the get go. It's just those vocal historian/grognards who are complaining a lot. But things are still changing for the better.

iirc, Henderson Field Designs produced WITP-AE (with some assistance from Matrix & 2by3) and yes, they are the ones that support it. 2by3 supported WITP for a number of years. The original plan was to go back and retro-fit some of the AE features back into WITP. Sadly, a corporate choice was made to not complete these additions. Priorities change, that happens in all industries. All in all, I can't complain about the length of support for any of these products. Nothing lasts forever...

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 6:28:13 AM

berthier

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
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Well I've bought a lot of games from Matrix and many of them have been played to death for a week or two then never touched again. This is not one of them.

This is a very very good computer game. If you are waiting for the perfect game you would never buy anything, they don't exist. It's not unlike waiting for the perfect iphone, laptop or any other new device. There are ALWAYS going to be improvments, but that dosen't mean the original is any way inadequate. I've said this in another post that if you buy it and don't like it, you are going to get very good prices for it on ebay because people are going to climb over each other to get this at any discount.

The only issue with the game, and that one is still being debated hotly is the first winter effects. Nothing else in the game has been a major point of contention in terms of game play, apart from some historical debates about the stacking rules. The first winter is tough, big deal! The rest of the game is so good you could play it for years. I'm hundreds of hours in and I haven't even played 2/3 of the scenarios. I'm on my fourth campaign as the Axis trying to get a "perfect" first six months. You really would be hard pressed to get better entertainment value for $

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 3:10:15 PM

Reconvet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adnan Meshuggi

Because even another year of waiting is no real problem :)

I foresee you having a major problem if you really wait another year: After a few play turns you'll definitly be quite angry with yourself why the heck you waited so long...

It really is a peace of software which will absorb you to a degree that it will save you a lot of money you won't invest in other spare time activities. I see no parallel with the return on investment you get with this product. At least if you have a minimal interest in strategy games.

There are some issues which bother me too, but I'm having great fun with the game as it is now and I have no doubt that the responsible team will continue their well earned reputation of high quality product service. This pretty child is growing up to be a beauty that won't let you turn your head until it's unborn sibling sees the light of this world.

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 4:33:32 PM

Adnan Meshuggi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adnan Meshuggi

Because even another year of waiting is no real problem :)

I foresee you having a major problem if you really wait another year: After a few play turns you'll definitly be quite angry with yourself why the heck you waited so long...

It really is a peace of software which will absorb you to a degree that it will save you a lot of money you won't invest in other spare time activities. I see no parallel with the return on investment you get with this product. At least if you have a minimal interest in strategy games.

There are some issues which bother me too, but I'm having great fun with the game as it is now and I have no doubt that the responsible team will continue their well earned reputation of high quality product service. This pretty child is growing up to be a beauty that won't let you turn your head until it's unborn sibling sees the light of this world.

Hi, maybe.
But to be honest my time for playing such (good) games is rare... i played soley witp, then witp ae... in the moment i stopped cause a bug i would call "pilots replacement bug".... it is not the pilot bug with vanishing pilots, you just can�t fill your rows (even if your replacement pool is full).

So i would buy the game (like UV, WITP, WITP AE) and play it. But it is to frustrating, if the most important campagin (for me) is in the moment not playable (i still have high hopes, even if the illsuited comments about new rules let me think that the game has also some problems with the developers) and even more, that the troubles are hardcoded.

I dislike the idea to make a fantasy-scenario to give the axis so much new toys (cause i am also interested in playing the russians, my time is to short to try-and-error and find out that the game i played is ruined by "10.000 Tiger-Bug".)
I am really old now (above 40) and with kids, hard work (even if i can write some posts, i am account manager for telecommunication and work around 60-65 hours the week) i have just some time. So i am interested that the game will be better and if i, no when i buy the game i can play at last the gc41-scenario

The costs are low, i think the game (solving its big problem) is worth even the double price (but don�t tell it the developers

), so many hours you play....

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Post #: 36

RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 4:54:07 PM

Hagleboz

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/27/2009
From: Murrieta, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

A very nice list, Joe. I especially like rule change 4 and formula change 9.

Good luck with the blizzard issue.

Those were the two that caught my attention as well.

The interdiction fix is exactly what I would have asked for and I think that the disruption to movement will add a lot to each turn's suspense. It will force players to incorporate a little flexibility into their planning as things might not go exactly as they expected. Players will also have to focus more on ensuring distribution of proper anti-air assets to their forces. No more disbanding of AAA battalions for one thing.

My one worry. The disruption to units should correlate to the size and power of the interdiction though. I have seen flights of 10-20 planes kill 1000+ soldiers. I hope that the same does not occur with disruption. I have noticed in my experience that mobile divisions seem to be the most vulnerable to interdictions and I don't want to see them routinely lose 1/3+ of their weekly movement to an attack of 20 planes or less (especially in 41). In some cases that might be worse than losing 1500 men!

Each new beta release is like a mini Christmas, I can't wait to see what it does to gameplay. Thanks for the continued support.

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Post #: 37

RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 7:39:25 PM

bednarre

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Joined: 2/23/2011
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How does one become an official playtester? Do you have to be an "expert" to join? What exactly do the playtesters do?

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/11/2011 9:53:41 PM

Ketza

Posts: 2227
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From: Columbia, Maryland
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I am certainly finding interdiction is playing a much greater role then before. Its actually thwarted several of my glorious moves...

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Post #: 39

RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/12/2011 3:58:57 AM

entwood

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Joined: 7/22/2010
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OK, As this is a thread I started for the "reluctant" purchaser, I am pleased to report that I have made my purchase.�

Big deal, one more person bought the game, but no doubt, some of the honest, plentiful, and generous replies in this thread, plus appreciating what I perceive and read from Joel and Pavel "diving into trenches with the customers" (instead of boiler-plate official statements)� aided in my decision; plus my own thinking, so now I am a proud owner. � I figure the time it takes to learn will put any serious play I do into the next 1 or maybe even 2 patches, which suits me just fine. The purchase and upgrade to 1.03 went smooth.

Thank you to all who provided information.�� I hope I will marvel at, enjoy, and be challenged by this game for some time to come and that development work continues to "clean any specs of dirt from a Mona Lisa".�� Buying this product took some careful consideration on my part, as well it should. It is a very expensive game, but I think the community has done a nice job of welcoming a "Doubting Thomas" with honesty. Thanks again, and I hope this thread can be used to continue any inquiries by other potential customers.�

< Message edited by entwood -- 3/12/2011 4:00:33 AM >

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/12/2011 4:21:42 AM

PeeDeeAitch

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I hope you are not married, in a serious relationship, or if you are that your significant other is patient and understanding about lost time with them. You will need such. Other than that, have fun with this game!

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/12/2011 10:33:25 AM

fsp

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Joined: 11/22/2010
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I am relatively new to this forum and I think my biggest contribution so far were two critical posts :-)

Yet I always feel the need to jump threads like this one and say
a) The game is very, very polished out of the box. Incredibly stable, I have not had a single CTD in >100 hours playing. I own multi-million dollar releases like GTA, COD etc. and they all have crashed on me. It has a slick UI (could be better in parts, but still a massive step forward for wargames) and allows you to just dive in and attack stuff.

b) The game is in no ways broken. It is very, very good right out of the box and while it has some issues, those are being adressed and worked on. I have yet to read that someone who actually bought the game went back and shelved it.

c) While I did not buy WITP (seems more like a chore than a game to me), I noticed for how long and how lovingly it was supported and this ensured me that WITE would get the same attention (provided of course that enough people bought it to justify the effort) and so I am happily enjoying being part of this very, very good game turning into a brilliant one.

d) The 1941 campaign is not broken. IMO it heavily favours the Soviets (let's please not discuss this in this thread) but nevertheles I was able to win decisively in 1943 in just my second German campaign on normal and had a blast. Head to head has me worried right now, and I am one of those too that believe that head to head is the real experience. But I have faith that this will be worked out as well.

If you love serious strategy games, buy it. You cannot go wrong.

< Message edited by fsp -- 3/12/2011 10:35:40 AM >

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/12/2011 11:32:40 AM

Apollo11

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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: entwood

I am sure there are others like myself

There are 2 reasons to not buy a desired game when first released;
A) Wait for patches which are almost always going to happen (at least a few times depending on game and company)
B) Price comes down (not expecting here)
In both cases, the customer benefits except for having to wait.

I almost clicked buy a few times in the last few days but I see a lot of 'stuff'; Winter '41 and other that is making me still hesitate. Is there any news about content and estimate of when a new patch will happen? If the next patch is big stuff and soon I would wait. If it will be 6 months wait then maybe buy now and just live with issues and have a bit of fun.

The WitE is continuously evolving and improving... this is non-stop process... you don't have to be afraid that patches / enhancements / improvements will suddenly stop... just check other 2By3 Matrix releases...

Thus, IMHO, you can safely get WitE right now and enjoy the game!

BTW, the 1st winter will be tested and improved in reasonably short time (but not 6 months - it will happen much much sooner - just check Joel's posted other thread about our first v1.04 testing).

In the meantime, if someone feels that 1st winter is not OK for 1941 campaign, there are plenty of smaller scenarios and other campaigns (1942-1945 for example) to play and get accustomed to the WitE!

Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/12/2011 2:32:02 PM

Zemke

Posts: 642
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The betas have slowed because we want to make a change for first winter before we release the next beta, and we needed to fix a few bugs before we could get there. Then we have to allow at least a little testing before release. We think we've got the bugs fixed that we needed, so we are now discussing what winter changes to make this weekend.

I think the key is to tweak the combat model so the blizzard is not the primary game balancing method. If the German infantry strength is close to historical levels at certain time frames AND rates of advance match historical, then I would say you are very close. Good Luck getting there.

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/12/2011 8:23:42 PM

marty_01

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Thanks for the update on V1.04 Joel.

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RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/14/2011 3:29:48 PM

holley

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/29/2004
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Just wanted to say thanks to you all that took the time to respond to the OP. Bought the game Saturday because of all your inputs. Had been on the fence for a couple weeks.
Thanks again.

M.

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Post #: 46

RE: Waiting to buy and future patches - 3/14/2011 4:22:05 PM

entwood

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Joined: 7/22/2010
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I spent the bulk of this past weekend playing vs. the AI.� I played the tutorial briefly but found it not very interesting so I dived into a Grand Campaign soon after.� If you devote a hard but fun weekend to it, I think most customers will have a decent understanding of the game.� It would probably take another 2 or 3 days, switching sides, to understand the differences in the Axis and Soviet sides.� I guess that adds up to a week's time of "training".�

Some humble suggestions from my experience:

1. Play the AI on the challenging level or above in preparation for playing real opponents or just for more challenge vs. AI.

2. Have the manual open to refer to.� At the same time, make a little word or notepad doc to take and save your own notes unless you have a great memory, especially for some of the "hot-keys" and writing down how important concepts and functions work "in your own words".

3. The game does convey and is a professional product.� The production values are excellent and solid.� This is all very impressive.� This will make a customer feel better after paying more than any other game out there.

4. The game can have a bit too much of a quartermaster's feel to it at times, but some players surely like that. I like to fight and not check every gas can.

5. I'm still having some trouble and delays trying to find Headquarters for units at times.� I wish the highlighting of HQ and peer counters would be a little easier to determine, especially on a crowded map.� It would also be nice to select and have highlighting categories of units such as armor, motorized, infantry, rail-repair, because it is fairly easy to miss units.

6. Also a nuisance is the need to De-select units while moving; move 1 unit, it goes through a hex with another unit, and if not very careful, when 1st unit continues it's move the other in the hex goes along also, even when you don't want that to happen.� There is an Undo button just in case, because it will happen.

7. I would set the preferences 'message level' at 1 otherwise there is way to much combat messaging for a big scenario.

8. There are some interesting mods available.� Right now, I found and use alternate unit counters, different fonts, some flags, and I'm trying out some other ones also, but just graphics changes. This need to be done manually because the mods are not at the point of having installers/uninstallers with backup original files.

Once the next beta is out, I hope to play PBEM games with some fellow players.

< Message edited by entwood -- 3/14/2011 4:35:04 PM >

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