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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> why?

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why? - 9/18/2002 12:48:19 PM

motaman

Posts: 31
Joined: 7/17/2002
Status: offline

anyone have a good reason why PBY search planes do not shadow enemy TF's? and where's the good reason for why TF's are not able to follow (shadow) enemy TF's?

Post #: 1

- 9/18/2002 7:07:30 PM

Drongo

Posts: 2205
Joined: 7/12/2002
From: Melb. Oztralia
Status: offline

Re PBY's :
It might be to do with the game mechanics than anything else. IIRC, Ships only move twice (night and day). Once they complete their 2 moves, they effectively sit in the one hex for both the (morn/aft) day air phases. If they're spotted during the night move (by ships/coastwatchers/etc), they're more likely to be spotted again in the morning search phase. If they're spotted in the morning, they're more likely to be spotted again in the afternoon search phase.

In a way, the increased chance of being re-spotted might be partially from taking into account a limited form of "shadowing".

Re ships shadowing : I think it was discussed in an old thread. It may have been really based on the fact that surface combat was only really intended to be centered around attacking and defending bases (no need to shadow as the enemy is coming to you).

I don't recall reading about many historical occurances in the Pacific during this period of ships being able to shadow another (maintain contact) for the length of a turn (24 hours). I think there is a good arguement for subs to be able to do it though.

On the other hand, I've seen mention of surface TF mid-ocean intercepts being possibly included in the game later (UV and/or WitP). This may lead to other things being included (like shadowing?).

I'm just telling you all this in the hope of putting a positive spin on things for you. :D

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drink more beer.

(in reply to motaman)

Post #: 2

Response... - 9/19/2002 8:43:31 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Although you don't receive a more detailed report, a PBY or any other search plane can achieve varying levels of success in spotting an enemy task force. Some spotting reports will be very minimal, others detailed down to the ship name. As the theater commander, the execution happens after you give out your orders and the details are not your direct concern. Instead, your subordinates with react to enemy orders and naval attack squadrons will take note of the spotting reports and the quality of each. Those reports will form the basis for their planned movements and strikes for that phase or turn.

In some cases, you may see a closer TF avoid a strike while a TF farther away is hit. Alternately, you may see several strikes fly out and return without being able to find their targets. All of these are a combination of leader ratings, orders, planning and the quality of the spotting report. Just because we don't show a little PBY shadowing the enemy TF doesn't mean the effects of a really good spotting report aren't modeled. :)

Regarding surface TFs, we've discussed shadowing/following but at present it's not something we plan to implement. The reasons are varied, but note that any such model would have to account for the multitude of factors in this time period and in this region that can cause a shadowing TF to completely lose its "target". In other words, it's not a minor undertaking to add this in and have it work realistically.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to motaman)

Post #: 3

One more thing... - 9/19/2002 9:37:39 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]Although you don't receive a more detailed report, a PBY or any other search plane can achieve varying levels of success in spotting an enemy task force. Some spotting reports will be very minimal, others detailed down to the ship name. As the theater commander, the execution happens after you give out your orders and the details are not your direct concern. Instead, your subordinates with react to enemy orders and naval attack squadrons will take note of the spotting reports and the quality of each. Those reports will form the basis for their planned movements and strikes for that phase or turn.

In some cases, you may see a closer TF avoid a strike while a TF farther away is hit. Alternately, you may see several strikes fly out and return without being able to find their targets. All of these are a combination of leader ratings, orders, planning and the quality of the spotting report. Just because we don't show a little PBY shadowing the enemy TF doesn't mean the effects of a really good spotting report aren't modeled. :)

Regarding surface TFs, we've discussed shadowing/following but at present it's not something we plan to implement. The reasons are varied, but note that any such model would have to account for the multitude of factors in this time period and in this region that can cause a shadowing TF to completely lose its "target". In other words, it's not a minor undertaking to add this in and have it work realistically.

Regards,

- Erik [/B][/QUOTE]

In thread:

"Positioning of "Naval Search" and "Naval Attack" aircraft... "

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25987

Joel Billings said that he thinks that all units in theater receive
info about sightings at same time. Can you please confirm this
Erik?

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to motaman)

Post #: 4