2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to.

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2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 12:01:23 AM

lexo1014

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what HQ should i set the 2 AUS brigades in Singapore to be able to get them out?
Dont wanna pick the wrong HQ and burn my pp's.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 12:39:50 AM

topeverest

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If you decide to move them, I would do Pacific Fleet. You are making the Malaya thing much easyier for the enemy if you pull them out...you do realize this?

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 12:55:01 AM

Bradley7735

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They can recombine if you get them to the other units in Aus/PNG. Check the HQ of those units and change it to them so you can recombine (assuming that HQ is not restricted.)

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 1:38:07 AM

lexo1014

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looks like the I Australian corp as best as i can figure.
Seems thats the hq that any Aus forces are in that arent restricted at this time.
And yes i realize the Malaya thing but why waste such good troops for an extra couple of days there.

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Post #: 4

RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 2:19:59 AM

sdhundt

Posts: 300
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From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
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You must get them out if you can. Delaying the "Malaya thing" for a couple of days isn't worth it. Also DO NOT send the British to Singapore either.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 5:48:27 AM

erstad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

They can recombine if you get them to the other units in Aus/PNG. Check the HQ of those units and change it to them so you can recombine (assuming that HQ is not restricted.)

The HQ for the "bird" battalions is also restricted, so it doesn't matter much what you do. Although certainly one would want to change all (five????) of the division components to the same unrestricted command.

The division itself is unrestricted so theoretically maybe you could change the malaya guys to the same restricted command and then combine them to the unrestricted division, but unless I'm missing something there's no way to get them in the same hex.

< Message edited by erstad -- 3/17/2011 5:54:02 AM >

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 10:04:03 AM

Smeulders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

They can recombine if you get them to the other units in Aus/PNG. Check the HQ of those units and change it to them so you can recombine (assuming that HQ is not restricted.)

The HQ for the "bird" battalions is also restricted, so it doesn't matter much what you do. Although certainly one would want to change all (five????) of the division components to the same unrestricted command.

The division itself is unrestricted so theoretically maybe you could change the malaya guys to the same restricted command and then combine them to the unrestricted division, but unless I'm missing something there's no way to get them in the same hex.

It doesn't matter what the HQ of the parent division is, they can only recombine if they are all the same command and then the consolidated division will have the same HQ as it's components. Note that you do not have to pull out the 2 Singapore brigades to be able to rebuild the division. You can rebuild the division with only the bird battalions, much cheaper in terms of PP, but it it will be drain on your device pools to expand it again.

To rebuild a unit, you have to get every surviving part of it under the same HQ, in the same location and with devices upgraded to the same level. This means that even one bird battalion is enough to reform 6th Division. Also keep in mind that it works differently for the A/B/C splits, where you need every part of the unit to rebuild, if you lose a part, you're in trouble.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 6:25:20 PM

foliveti

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ABDA is an unrestricted HQ which Malaya command is belongs to I believe. I think if you switch them to ABDA it costs fewer PP to put the Australian brigades on a boat.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/17/2011 6:50:08 PM

Smeulders

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and the other parts of the division are already in ABDA, so you won't have to pay PP to change them as well when recombining.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 12:44:20 AM

Chris21wen

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The two Aus Bdes (22 & 27) are part of the 8th Aus Div as are the three Aus Bn (Sparrow, Gull and Lark), two of which are in Darwin. The 8th Aus Div isn't in play so you need to combine all of these units under the same command. The Bdes are attached to the Malaya Army which is restricted while the Bns are attched to Far East Cmd (ABDA) which isn't.

The chance of getting the Aus Bdes out of Malaya intact is remote but if you are going to do it then it must be done immediately but that cost pps which you do not have. Leave them, dig in in Singas and hope they can make the Japanese assult costly.

Once the two Bdes are destroyed I'd change the Bns left to an Aus Corp and recombine them into the 8th Aus Div. Put in a well stocked base (I used Perth) you will have a full Div by Mid late 1943 that will be well trained.

This was against the AI but I don't see why it couldn't be used against a PBEM.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 12:59:59 AM

Misconduct

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From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

The two Aus Bdes (22 & 27) are part of the 8th Aus Div as are the three Aus Bn (Sparrow, Gull and Lark), two of which are in Darwin. The 8th Aus Div isn't in play so you need to combine all of these units under the same command. The Bdes are attached to the Malaya Army which is restricted while the Bns are attched to Far East Cmd (ABDA) which isn't.

The chance of getting the Aus Bdes out of Malaya intact is remote but if you are going to do it then it must be done immediately but that cost pps which you do not have. Leave them, dig in in Singas and hope they can make the Japanese assult costly.

Once the two Bdes are destroyed I'd change the Bns left to an Aus Corp and recombine them into the 8th Aus Div. Put in a well stocked base (I used Perth) you will have a full Div by Mid late 1943 that will be well trained.

This was against the AI but I don't see why it couldn't be used against a PBEM.

Agreed, in a PBEM you are hopeless to gather enough PP to get them out - against the AI its possible with enough damage done to the Japanese, one thing I made sure of in my current game - I loaded up any spare planes to naval attack around Singapore and did manage to nail a transport carrying extras out - however becareful of this - I was extending my range beyond fighter escort and did lose a few betties in the process.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 1:40:43 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

The two Aus Bdes (22 & 27) are part of the 8th Aus Div as are the three Aus Bn (Sparrow, Gull and Lark), two of which are in Darwin. The 8th Aus Div isn't in play so you need to combine all of these units under the same command. The Bdes are attached to the Malaya Army which is restricted while the Bns are attched to Far East Cmd (ABDA) which isn't.

The chance of getting the Aus Bdes out of Malaya intact is remote but if you are going to do it then it must be done immediately but that cost pps which you do not have. Leave them, dig in in Singas and hope they can make the Japanese assult costly.

Once the two Bdes are destroyed I'd change the Bns left to an Aus Corp and recombine them into the 8th Aus Div. Put in a well stocked base (I used Perth) you will have a full Div by Mid late 1943 that will be well trained.

This was against the AI but I don't see why it couldn't be used against a PBEM.

Agreed, in a PBEM you are hopeless to gather enough PP to get them out - against the AI its possible with enough damage done to the Japanese, one thing I made sure of in my current game - I loaded up any spare planes to naval attack around Singapore and did manage to nail a transport carrying extras out - however becareful of this - I was extending my range beyond fighter escort and did lose a few betties in the process.

It may be possible to save evacuation TF carrying those brigades by using waypoints and LRCAP if necessary even vs human player. Problem is, there no inherent AP capacity to load all of them into TF in Singapore. So, while gathering PP, Allied player needs also to gather xAPs for the task and send them to Singapore.

For IJ Player, landing them to Java or Palembang with 18th UK Div might cause more trouble than evacuating them to Australia.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 2:19:58 AM

Misconduct

Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

The two Aus Bdes (22 & 27) are part of the 8th Aus Div as are the three Aus Bn (Sparrow, Gull and Lark), two of which are in Darwin. The 8th Aus Div isn't in play so you need to combine all of these units under the same command. The Bdes are attached to the Malaya Army which is restricted while the Bns are attched to Far East Cmd (ABDA) which isn't.

The chance of getting the Aus Bdes out of Malaya intact is remote but if you are going to do it then it must be done immediately but that cost pps which you do not have. Leave them, dig in in Singas and hope they can make the Japanese assult costly.

Once the two Bdes are destroyed I'd change the Bns left to an Aus Corp and recombine them into the 8th Aus Div. Put in a well stocked base (I used Perth) you will have a full Div by Mid late 1943 that will be well trained.

This was against the AI but I don't see why it couldn't be used against a PBEM.

Agreed, in a PBEM you are hopeless to gather enough PP to get them out - against the AI its possible with enough damage done to the Japanese, one thing I made sure of in my current game - I loaded up any spare planes to naval attack around Singapore and did manage to nail a transport carrying extras out - however becareful of this - I was extending my range beyond fighter escort and did lose a few betties in the process.

It may be possible to save evacuation TF carrying those brigades by using waypoints and LRCAP if necessary even vs human player. Problem is, there no inherent AP capacity to load all of them into TF in Singapore. So, while gathering PP, Allied player needs also to gather xAPs for the task and send them to Singapore.

For IJ Player, landing them to Java or Palembang with 18th UK Div might cause more trouble than evacuating them to Australia.

This was my opponents idea, he got roughly 40% of the 27th out and landed with the 18th in Java, somehow that 40% got kicked out of surabaya, somehow a fraction of this unit ended up in an isolated hex for a while, untouched while I was building Java into a fortress in the mean time - fast forward till a week ago ingame (probably a year ago since this happen) my opponent sent me this information on how he got the unit out with subs to rebuild in Perth. I had no clue, I would suggest a Japanese player keep a SNLF on this hex where this unit was located, although it posed no real danger form its size, but I have never noticed it in a year.

Edit: if anyones interested I will show a picture of what i'm talking about

< Message edited by Misconduct -- 3/18/2011 2:22:31 AM >

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 10:58:39 AM

vinnie71

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I think that's when the big xAPs come into use. I normally evacuate Malaya by sending troops to Batavia. If the decision is to stay put in Java, that is where they remain. I also try not to commit more ships than those available in Singapore itself because they are too vulnerable to air attack as they make the crossing to Batavia. If not, I normally have the Queen Mary, its sister ship and Aquitania waiting in Soerbaja (sp?) to evauate them wherever they are needed (they can load entire brigades at one go). As long as the Japanese are still far away taking the Philippines and KB and Baby KB are otherwise occupied, Soerbaja is pretty safe and if you mass half your fighters there, you still have a decent air umbrella if the Japanese send unescorted bombers (which I doubt they will do at the early stage in the war).

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 6:32:18 PM

Dobey455

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The other point to consider is how having that extra division will affect replacements later in the war.
By 1945 Australian replacements drop to a trickle. It won't be enough to replace losses to the I corp (6th, 7th and 9th Divs)let alone to a forth division.

It might be better to let the 8th die fighting and have more replacements to keep the 3 more experienced divs in battle.

< Message edited by Dobey -- 3/18/2011 6:33:38 PM >

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 7:02:45 PM

Sardaukar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey

The other point to consider is how having that extra division will affect replacements later in the war.
By 1945 Australian replacements drop to a trickle. It won't be enough to replace losses to the I corp (6th, 7th and 9th Divs)let alone to a forth division.

It might be better to let the 8th die fighting and have more replacements to keep the 3 more experienced divs in battle.

If things come to that, you can always send 8th AUS Div to Sydney later and disband it, sending troops and equipment to pool.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 7:08:05 PM

Smeulders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey

The other point to consider is how having that extra division will affect replacements later in the war.
By 1945 Australian replacements drop to a trickle. It won't be enough to replace losses to the I corp (6th, 7th and 9th Divs)let alone to a forth division.

It might be better to let the 8th die fighting and have more replacements to keep the 3 more experienced divs in battle.

If things come to that, you can always send 8th AUS Div to Sydney later and disband it, sending troops and equipment to pool.

That is one option, but you shouldn't overestimate the shortage either. There are a lot of temporarily restricted units in Australia which can be used to fill up the pools.

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RE: 2 AUS brigades in Singapore, what HQ to change to. - 3/18/2011 10:04:39 PM

crsutton

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With some careful force managment you can rebuild the Australian units by mid 1944. But the replacment rate make it difficult and slow, and if you are using the excellent Australian units in combat will you have enough to replace combat losses as well? The question remains, with the Allied OOB do you really need to rebuild all these units. I look to have three or four full Australian divisions, all tank regiments that do not withdraw, the one tank brigade (awesome unit converted from cavalry) and the one motorized brigade in use for outside adventures. Basically, that is about as many units as you can hope to keep up to full strength with use in heavy combat after 1944. Everybody else is pretty much garrison units. You have to remember that squads aside these units use commonwealth devices and are competing with the massive Indian Army for scarce things such as vickers MMGs, six pounders and 25 pounders. I suspect that a heavy commitment of Australian units along with the Indian army will create some serious bottlenecks.

I rebuilt the three bird units but found that they were very usefull broken down as you sometimes run short of small infantry units to take and hold small bases. And these three units have a full load of devices and are much stronger than raiders or paras.

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