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AI forming empty shell units too close to the front

 
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AI forming empty shell units too close to the front - 3/22/2011 4:21:31 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		Edited subject for clarity



< Message edited by carnifex -- 3/23/2011 9:44:12 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/22/2011 6:53:38 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I must be thick as a brick but I don't see the problem in the image above.  A single-hex-wide linear defense?  Breaking down tank units?  Or.... ???

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 3/22/2011 6:54:14 PM >

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 2
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/22/2011 7:44:04 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I'm suspecting these are empty units that the AI just forms all over the place, regardless of having the men or material to actually fill them?

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 3
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/22/2011 8:00:40 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		What's going on there? Are these shell units on the front line. What version, what scenario? Do you have a save? Does it happen repeatedly? Info would help Gary get to the bottom of it if there's a problem.

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(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 4
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/22/2011 9:32:51 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		It's the latest patch 1941 GC vs Soviet AI. The AI keeps sending zero-strength units straight to the front lines. The issue has been happening for several turns. In the screenshot above I was able to make that entire line disappear with one understrength corps full of drunken Romanians.

Attaching save. Beginning of German turn 13 - I reconned some locations so you can see the issue. Start at Orel and look south along the Soviet line.

Edit: Save file too big. Placed in Google Docs with .txt extension with public sharing option enabled:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Byfkj3CeFG_2MDY1YzE4N2QtZTE5My00MzNiLWEyMGItNTRmNDVkNzY4N2Y3&hl=en

< Message edited by carnifex -- 3/22/2011 9:42:49 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 5
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/22/2011 10:03:55 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

It's the latest patch 1941 GC vs Soviet AI. The AI keeps sending zero-strength units straight to the front lines. The issue has been happening for several turns. In the screenshot above I was able to make that entire line disappear with one understrength corps full of drunken Romanians.

Attaching save. Beginning of German turn 13 - I reconned some locations so you can see the issue. Start at Orel and look south along the Soviet line.

Edit: Save file too big. Placed in Google Docs with .txt extension with public sharing option enabled:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Byfkj3CeFG_2MDY1YzE4N2QtZTE5My00MzNiLWEyMGItNTRmNDVkNzY4N2Y3&hl=en


Please post this in "Tech" subforum (it also allows greater size attachments)!


Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 6
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 3:29:19 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		They are probably not truly 'empty' units but amount of men/equipment and experience make them show as CV 0.  They could have just 100 men or perhaps a few thousand.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 7
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 3:31:29 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		The AI does make many units, but still plays with the manpower/armaments constrictions of a human, if I remember.  So that means it has made units, it just can't fill them up but somehow sees fit to place them in the front lines anyway.  I bet those 100-man brigades feel awfully lonely...

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(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 8
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 6:46:42 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Ah, I was thinking of rifle divisions; didn't notice those seem to be tank brigades.

Some of the tank brigades arrive at about 60% strength, others are close to those 100 man shells.

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 9
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 10:09:50 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		I read here that the AI has unlimited AP and that's a possible underlying reason for the huge number of empty units you see. This has been discussed in another thread, but I can't recall which one.

Limiting the AI to a 'realistic' AP level (even if a multiple of the human player limit) might help to ensure that new units get their OOB filled more effectively?

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(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 10
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 8:32:00 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		What version are you using?

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 3/23/2011 8:48:09 PM >

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 11
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 8:50:44 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I see the situation at the start of your move. Do you have a save at the end of your previous turn, or the autosave from the Soviet turn? I'd like to be able to load a save, and run the AI and see it position these CV 0 units. That way Gary can confirm any fix he puts in actually works. Clearly the AI should not be putting these units in the front line, but it sees the south as low priority and is grabbing whatever it can get it's hands on (it shouldn't grab CV 0 units).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 12
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/23/2011 9:37:48 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		Using version 1.03. Autosave of Soviet turn attached.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by carnifex -- 3/23/2011 9:43:07 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 13
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/25/2011 9:51:35 PM   
bevans

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline 		I see the AI put lots of shell units in the rearward rows of the very deep carpet defenses it forms - but that strikes me as intelligent behaviour (they dig in and build up simultaneously as I grind towards them), if deeply frustrating to me. Have never seen these shell units wandering around the front lines by themselves. The AI does seem to have unlimited APs to spend on unit formation but at least on higher difficulties, it also seems to have the capability to fill and use them effectively. That said, it does ruin the feel of the '41 campaign (at least in the GC) for the Axis player.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 14
RE: Please have the AI stop doing this: - 3/25/2011 11:16:53 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Thanks, send the saves to Gary and he'll take a look when he can. Hopefully he can get a fix in by the time we're ready with a 1.04.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to bevans)
Post #: 15
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