RE: The door of India is open

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The door of India is open

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RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 3:43:01 PM

jeffk3510

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GreyJoy- I have been following your AAR, but not posting. I am happy to see you sticking it out and not being afraid to ask for help. Things will turn around for you. You seem to be catching a break here and there.

Continue to use CR and Mooses advice....I have been using it some for myself, and find that it is sound advice. Keep up the good work!

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Post #: 361

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 3:46:21 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

GreyJoy- I have been following your AAR, but not posting. I am happy to see you sticking it out and not being afraid to ask for help. Things will turn around for you. You seem to be catching a break here and there.

Continue to use CR and Mooses advice....I have been using it some for myself, and find that it is sound advice. Keep up the good work!

Thanks jeffk, actually i've been on the edge of "crying" many times during this game...and i'm pretty sure Rader still knows how to hurt me and get me scared...but the support of the folks here have been priceless, and not only for their usefull suggestions!

Thanks!

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Post #: 362

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 4:01:13 PM

jeffk3510

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Dont worry I lost my 2 Carriers Dec 9th this weekend....just started a new GC Game and they're toast...best part about it? Less TBD Devestators for me to work with.... That is how I look at things.

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Post #: 363

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 4:03:56 PM

Canoerebel

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GreyJoy, you do have a few combrades in arms that know exactly how you feel. A few of us have been where you've been, much to our chagrine. I think you're familiar with the pain I suffered in my game with Q-Ball. I also nearly lost all of Australia in a WitP game with John III (Forlorn Hopes if you want to read the AAR). Durng my despairing moments in that game, I took comfort in knowing that Raverdave had also nearly lost all of Australia in an earlier WitP game (now I can't recall whether he did lose it all, but I think he finally did get defeated).

There's a measure of comfort in knowing that the dark roads we travel have been traveled by others.

Here's hoping you'll experience one of the most satisfying experiences in gamedom: being pushed to the very edge of defeat, but then coming back to win.

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Post #: 364

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 4:08:40 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

However my concerns aren't for a landing at Bombay but for a nuke-bombing by his BBs...

In my games CD has been pretty much a non-factor in combating naval bombardments. They do well on landings, not so much on hit&runs.

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Post #: 365

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 4:14:29 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

He however really didn't need to land northwards of Bombay...he's already steamrolling me with his tanks that keep a pace of advance really crazy!

CR is right. A landing "up there" would make a lot of sense, and I'm sure your opponent is thinking of that option as part of his palette. So far he has shown he favors overwhelming, rapid application of force, not surgical anything, but landing north would:

1. Offer tactical air bases for a variety of purposes, not the least of which is recon of Bombay to raise d/l.
2. A supply dump for LCU use.
3. Interdicting the flow of fuel south from Karachi, if you get any in there now, resulting in far less organic supply generation at Bombay. Bombay has huge HI facilities which are useless without fuel.
4. Offer air bases for para drops to further isolate Bombay on the secondary routes.
5. Give a small port refuel/rearm option for light surface TFs guarding the Aden channel.

And, he gets all that without crossing the LOD.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 5/4/2011 4:17:24 PM >

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Post #: 366

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 5:23:15 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

He however really didn't need to land northwards of Bombay...he's already steamrolling me with his tanks that keep a pace of advance really crazy!

CR is right. A landing "up there" would make a lot of sense, and I'm sure your opponent is thinking of that option as part of his palette. So far he has shown he favors overwhelming, rapid application of force, not surgical anything, but landing north would:

1. Offer tactical air bases for a variety of purposes, not the least of which is recon of Bombay to raise d/l.
2. A supply dump for LCU use.
3. Interdicting the flow of fuel south from Karachi, if you get any in there now, resulting in far less organic supply generation at Bombay. Bombay has huge HI facilities which are useless without fuel.
4. Offer air bases for para drops to further isolate Bombay on the secondary routes.
5. Give a small port refuel/rearm option for light surface TFs guarding the Aden channel.

And, he gets all that without crossing the LOD.

Yup, after studying the map i agree. Surat, as i feared before, is a perfect place to land beyond Bombay and isolate it from any kind of help...at the same time it'd become a good place to threaten the whole Karachi area. However, considering how's Rader is moving, i think he won't spend fuel and time to organize an operation there. He now needs his ships to take Scoodra and he cannot be everywhere en masse. I think the task of cutting the Indian Sub-Continent in two will be devolved to the mighty jap tanks and paras

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Post #: 367

RE: The door of India is open - 5/4/2011 6:04:50 PM

GreyJoy

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Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 5/4/2011 6:38:38 PM >

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Post #: 368

Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/4/2011 6:39:01 PM

GreyJoy

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Breaking news...before going out for dinner...Calcutta Fell under the assault of 1350 Japanese AVs...

More news will follow

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Post #: 369

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/4/2011 7:15:36 PM

Canoerebel

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You'll need to keep track of the Japanese divisions known to be in India, both to measure the enemy's strength and how much more he can bring.

In my game with Q-Ball, I knew with certainty that he had 17 divisions in India (well, actually, that's my memory now; my memory is a bit fuzzy because that was six months ago). Therefore, I knew he didn't have much more that he could commit and I knew where his main threats were and when he no longer had available reserves to mount a seaborn invasion or a major attack at some other locale in India.

Make a list of each Japanese division (by number) in India: where they are. Then compare that to a list of Japanese divisions available in the game. You might have to start a new game in the Hot Seat and find this information in the list of units and reinforcements.

I think Japan starts with 10 unrestricted divisions (it might be 12) and then receives 4 more (it might be 2). So Japan should have 14 unrestricted divisions in Scenario Two. Then Japan can buy additional restricted divisions. There are also the bevy of brigades, regiments, etc. But deployment of his divisions will give you a good idea as to what's going on.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/4/2011 7:17:02 PM >

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Post #: 370

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/4/2011 7:23:02 PM

jeffk3510

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Have you thought about landing somewhere behind him and groud his advance to a hault?.....

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Post #: 371

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/4/2011 7:23:25 PM

jeffk3510

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Probably forget that...I see that you mentioned Calcutta just fell....

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Post #: 372

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/4/2011 11:25:15 PM

GreyJoy

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He has the complete controll of the indian seas...cannot think about a landing right now mate.
CR, yes, i'm trying to do so...as far as i can tell it seems that he's bringing really everything he has...for sure he's buyin many units from China and from Manchuria...i expect at least 15 divs in India plus indipendent regiments and bde for something like 10.000 AVs (also considering the amount of tanks he's bringing in...)

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Post #: 373

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/4/2011 11:37:17 PM

GreyJoy

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Apr 22, 23 42

So Calcutta fell. The small garrison left there (the static one) was pounded for 2 weeks in a row by his air hordes.
His pace is awesome....seems that nothing can slow him down! He has already 39 units in Benares (6 were present 2 days ago) and he has placed already planes there!...wow...he's for sure using the indian RR system to his advantage...

However things don't change much at this stage.

The KB is moving towards Scoodra. He has dispatched several single ship TFs composed of DDs around the arabian sea in order to stop every kind of naval movement on my side.

One of my Kingfishers at Scoodra managed to score a single bomb hit (250kg) on a DD parked north of Scoodra...nothing much, i know...

I'm organizing my indian air force. I still don't get it the thing about the AF limits.
Ok, i have 330 aviation support in Karachi which is level 7 AF...i tried to put there 16 groups for a total of 225 engines...it tells me that i can support only 11 groups ("16 of 11 groups supported" written in red!)...while, at Bombay, which has the same level 7 AF and with 350 Aviation support it tells me that i can support 16 groups...why?????

I'd really like to have some P38s...but they aren't yet in production so i'll have soon to send my 4Es alone...that sucks :-(
I'm planning to use the 4Es against the bases in the rear, while leaving to the escorted 2Es the task of interdicting his advance...hope it's going to work...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Calcutta (52,37)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 39212 troops, 417 guns, 64 vehicles, Assault Value = 1381

Defending force 3714 troops, 38 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 58

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1796

Allied adjusted defense: 17

Japanese assault odds: 105 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Calcutta !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
50 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
5086 casualties reported
Squads: 88 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 431 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 33 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 42 (42 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (5 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
33rd Division
56th Engineer Regiment
112th Infantry Regiment
2nd Raiding Regiment
Miura Det
21st Division
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
48th Engineer Regiment
I./124th Infantry Battalion
55th Engineer Regiment
Yokosuka 1st SNLF
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
48th Field Artillery Regiment
56th Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
Fort William
Eastern Command

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Post #: 374

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/5/2011 12:21:39 AM

Nemo121

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If I may, it seems that your problem is that you are inexperienced compared to your opponent and are trying to match his strategic nous rather than cutting your cloth to measure.

Right now the simplest of all possible strategies is to huddle up in one place and try to hold out with local supply production + stockpiles. Combine that with a need of your opponent to keep KB in place such that you can raid/ advance in other theatres and you've got the beginnings of a game plan.

It seems to me though that right now you are trying to engage in strategies beyond your current ability level and thus are always behind the curve.

Maybe the question you should ask yourself is, "What is the simplest strategy I can enact which will prove effective?" WHen you answer that then I would suggest that's what you should do.

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 375

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/5/2011 12:22:08 AM

GreyJoy

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April 24,25 1942

The KB is again moving toward Karachi. A single DD made a sortie trying to attack my ASW ships in front of Karachi. My torpedo swordfishs performed horribly...in 10 they managed to miss the target completely, even if they are all in their 60s for what concerns navalT skills...

The only real note is that the voyages of the Hibiki are temporary over...she ate a fish south of Scoodra from a US class-Gato sub (yes, you are not mistaken...an US sub actually get a hit!!)

Still waiting for the turn to come in order to understand better the overall situation

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Post #: 376

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/5/2011 1:02:59 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

If I may, it seems that your problem is that you are inexperienced compared to your opponent and are trying to match his strategic nous rather than cutting your cloth to measure.

Right now the simplest of all possible strategies is to huddle up in one place and try to hold out with local supply production + stockpiles. Combine that with a need of your opponent to keep KB in place such that you can raid/ advance in other theatres and you've got the beginnings of a game plan.

It seems to me though that right now you are trying to engage in strategies beyond your current ability level and thus are always behind the curve.

Maybe the question you should ask yourself is, "What is the simplest strategy I can enact which will prove effective?" WHen you answer that then I would suggest that's what you should do.

Hi nemo! You may, for sure!
And you're terribly right: i do feel and i do am really much more unexperienced than my opponent. Rader is the one who leads the game. I try to follow him, and to stop some of his blows but he's always few steps forward.
However since the beginning i've already learnt a lot. And every day i feel more confortable than the day before.
Think this rapresents quite well the situation the allies faced in RL...

The simple strategy is dig in in India as long as i can and make him bleed to keep the Aden and CT channells closed, thus forcing him to remain committed in India while i grow stronger in the pacific and then try to counterattack there using the same "tactic" he used against me: OVERKILL

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Post #: 377

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/5/2011 1:39:17 AM

Nemo121

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OK, so by simplifying things down to one simple decision you stick with no matter what you have the potential to remove his greatest advantage, the fact that he is more experienced and can progress through OODA cycles FAR more quickly than you can.

So, where in India? Remember, all decision-making is arrived at simply through a series of questions which, hopefully, get more detail without complicating things.

As I see it your decision boils down to Karachi or Bombay or both... That's a pretty simple, almost-binary situation. Pick one, or both and them commit to it and let him react to you.

Once you've picked we can move on to sorting out whether or not you need air cover. Obviously it would be possible to post a full defensive plan but, since it appears one of your goals in this game is to learn ( and kudos to you for that, it is the first step to improving, which we all have to do ) it would be more helpful to you in the long term to pose the questions and go with your answers so that you learn how to create plans in the future...

One key thing when in a situation like this ( being pushed back ) is to begin planning a defensive line in a position which won't immediately be under enemy pressure. People usually just try to defend too far forward and thus get pushed out of one defensive line after the other, each line being far too close to the front. Hence Bombay/Karachi, they are far enough back that you can rail into them and have enough time to establish a viable defence before he shows up.

One last thing: I would stop sending turns to your opponent over the next day or so until your defensive plan is firmed up. Otherwise you run the danger of making decisions now in-game which crucially impact on any planning.

P.s. It'd be helpful for you to post a picture of the Bombay/Karachi region so as to aid discussion of any defensive positioning there.

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 378

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/5/2011 5:22:28 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

...I'm organizing my indian air force. I still don't get it the thing about the AF limits.
Ok, i have 330 aviation support in Karachi which is level 7 AF...i tried to put there 16 groups for a total of 225 engines...it tells me that i can support only 11 groups ("16 of 11 groups supported" written in red!)...while, at Bombay, which has the same level 7 AF and with 350 Aviation support it tells me that i can support 16 groups...why?????...

That is because you have been given somewhat misleading information.

Read pages 213-214 of the manual.

(A) Aviation Support

Aviation support has nothing to do with the type of overstacking at an AF which bemuses you. If you have less aviation support present than airframes, it impacts on the efficiency of air operations from that AF via:

(a) repair turnaround on damaged airframes
(b) reduces by 25% the number of level bomber aircraft which take off on an offensive mission

Once you have 250 aviation support at an AF, the above inefficiencies no longer apply.

(B) AF Overstacking

There are two kinds of overstacking limits at an AF:

(1) engine
(2) administrative

Overstacking limits are based on the size of the AF. Each AF level allows for:

(i) 50 engines
(ii) 1 air group

No overstacking limits apply to AFs sized 9+. Multiple groups on training count as 1 group only for administration stacking purposes. Air HQs within range also increase the administration limit.

Hence an AF sized 7 allows for active operations for 350 engines and 7 airgroups. This is modified by the presence of Air HQs.

Alfred

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Post #: 379

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/6/2011 10:50:17 AM

GreyJoy

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Thanks Nemo and thanks a lot Alfred (that info is very usefull and explains lot of things that were unclear. Seems also that the bonus given by the Air HQ is determined both by the hirarcic role of the HQ - if it's a range 5 or a range 1 HQ - and by the preparation - HQ full prepped for the base where it is gives more administration bonus than a non-prepped one).

However....i've come up with a plan! :-)

This weekend we're not going to send each other turns due to RL so i'll have plenty of time to elaborate and expose you my plan for the final defence of India.

stay connected :)

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Post #: 380

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/6/2011 1:05:12 PM

Nemo121

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I don't believe Air HQ Preparation makes any difference to administration bonuses.

As to your plan... Hmm, you haven't gone through the questions you need to go through to draw the parameters of a plan. I think you may be trying to run before you walk again but, let's see.

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 381

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/7/2011 6:19:22 PM

GreyJoy

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Here's the plan:

The goal:

The main goal is to keep India alive.
Secondary target is to keep India last as long as possible, thus forcing him to keep committing his main assets (naval, air and land) in this corner of the map as long as possible.

How to achieve:

I respect and admire CR and Bull's suggestions about the role of Bombay and Karachi, but i respectfully disagree. With Diego and Scoodra in Allies hands probably Bombay is more important than Karachi, but with Diego and Scoodra in japs' hands the only hope for India is to keep the Aden-Karachi communication line open. And to do so my opinion is that the gravity center of my defensive operations must be Karachi.
I also believe that Karachi is far more easy to defend than Bombay, even if the terrain bonus is weaker.
I think so because if you look at the map Karachi has only 2 bases close to it that can be used by the japs as operational bases for a siege (where to base his planes): Hydebaran (shynd) and Jodpur, while bombay has a lot of bases close to it.
To arrive at Jodpur and later at Hydebaran Japan will be forced to use only 2 approaching ways because th road system is very limited in that part of the map. If Japan will want to flank my positions (as Radar has always done) he will have to move in desert terrain without a single road and pretty far away from any close supporting base (that means also that his LRCAP will be less effective, while i could finally give him some havoc with my bombers).

Considering what i've experienced so far in China and in southern India, Japan bases its land supremacy on the control of the skies. His blitz-krieg operations have been so effective because he was able everywhere to gain easily the controll of the skies, bombing my units to oblivion and forbidding to my units any offensive or defensive movements (something like Normandy 44).
In India, so far, we have not tried to contest the skies because our defensive line was too exposed and his communication lines with his main bases were too short.
Now we want to make him fight on our very own terrain, where my CAP will be operating very close to our bases and our bombers will be able to interdict his flanking movements.

So the first defensive perimeter will be estabilish at Jodpur, while the second at Hydebaran (S.).

Also consider that to arrive close to Jodpur Rader will have to pass the line of Death and activate my reinforcements.

In this plan Bombay will be however reinforced. I'm planning to leave there 750 AVs behind 4 forts and with some air units. Bombay will eventually fall but he will have to committ a lot of forces to take the city and the time gained there will be used to fortify my northern positions.

Karachi,Hydebaran and Jpdpur will have more than 3000 AVs for their defence, but the real defensive power will be my air force. I'm committing everything i have there. 320 fighters (hurricanes, P40s and p39s) with 430 pilots (all of them above 60 a2a skill), 50 torpedo bombers, 20 dive bombers, 200 medium and heavy bombers, plus a bunch of aux planes (recon, patrol etc). To this guys i give the key of India.

The RN and the India air Army will have the task of keep The Adenn Channell open, while 25 subs (mainly dutch subs plus some us S-class units) will try to make life hard for the Combined fleet sieging Karachi.

More details, screenshots and analysis will follow....

(in reply to Nemo121)

Post #: 382

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/7/2011 7:10:55 PM

Alfred

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A couple of observations about post #382 before additional details/screenshots sre provided.

1. On this AAR, it has often been posted favourably that garrisoning both Karachi and Bombay is a good move. Specifically the contention is put forward that if Karachi (or vice versa) is the main defence bastion, the other will buy significant time because it will occupy considerable enemy forces. This contention is based on a false assumption.

As proposed, there is absolutely no reason why Japan has to invest Bombay with anything more than a division if Rader has determined to drive on Karachi. A Japanese division will constitute about 50% of the Allied Bombay garrison and it will not be ejected by a mere 750 Allied AV. Such a disposition of Allied forces will neither weaken nor slow down the enemy drive on Karachi, rather it will aid the enemy drive on Karachi.

Alternatively, the enemy can concentrate on Bombay and both the quantity and quality of the Bombay garrison, which will be largely without any Allied air support (it being stationed around Karachi), will not hold the city for long. The very little time gained for improving the Karachi defences will be of no benefit. A Karachi under land, sea and air blockade, separated from its interior supply sources/raw materials, will starve and that will reduce a garrison of unadjusted 3000 AV down towards 1000 AV and ground the airforce.

2. Too much reliance is being placed on the efficacy of the airforce. First supply consumption, both for operaations and airframe relacements, will make that airforce impotent. Secondly there is no point in having more aircraft present than the facilities can service. Thirdly a large slab of the British airforce is lost in mid 1942. Fourthly pilots with air skill in the 60s still do not have good combat survival odds.

Alfred

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 383

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/7/2011 9:29:54 PM

Nemo121

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GreyJoy,

Your plan sets up precisely the sorts of situations you should avoid in terms of splitting of force and allowing the enemy to use their mobility and OODA advantages against you. In addition your faith in your airforce is misplaced.

What you will find if you try this plan is that:
a) your opponent will invest Bombay with 1 division as Alfred says and it won't slow him at all.
b) trying to base bombers at Karachi will waste huge amounts of supply and hasten Karachi's fall. In addition your ability to stop IJA manoeuvre with bomber strikes won't live up to your expectations.
c) the enemy tank regiments will easily use those desert hexes you seem to think of as a barrier to outflank you and continue the defeat in detail you invited by moving troops into Karachi.

Your plan is too complex and makes anumber of basic errors in terms of splitting forces and gifting the enemy opportunities to use manoeuvre. I also don't think you've properly considered the logistics portion properly. If you enact that plan your opponent actually may be the first player to take India in total.

There was a reason I suggested you work through the planning process question by question as that's the only way whe you are starting out to properly plan and prioritise things whilst ensuring you don't forget anything.

Sorry to rain on the parade but this plan weakens the British position and is based an assumptions regarding opponent actions which require him to make sub-optimal decisions ( this is probably tied into your inexperience with the game and thus not realising that investing Bombay is a superior strategy. Stopping to take Bombay before Karachi in this situation is a sign of poor play in your opponent. Given his overmatching you I don't think you can assume that at this stage. ), lack of awareness that the desert wouldn't form a barrier and your excessive faith in the performance of your air force. I think you may need to use the air force but if used at all I'd simply keep almost nothing but fighters in Karachi, place them on CAP and hope that they use less supplies than they save from destruction via IJAAF and IJNAF bombing raids.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/7/2011 9:31:56 PM >

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 384

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/8/2011 12:03:51 PM

GreyJoy

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Thanks Alfred and Thanks Nemo.
As always what you say makes a lot of sense and opens up my eyes to problems and situations i have not considered.
If even the above-described allied air power isn't sufficient to estabilish a decent defence, well, then i think i'm doomed anyway. if he manages to get to Hydebaran(S.) and create an airbase there, every effort to reinforce Bombay or Karachi will be doomed anyway.

if i understand correctly what you are suggesting, you are basically sayin i should move everything to Bombay, leave a small garrison to Karachi, enclose myself there as a turtle and hope to last as long as i can... But i don't see how will i be able to turn the tables in this situation. If Karachi and/or Bombay is completely sorrounded and sieged, nothing could relief those strongholds. He will base 100 zeros and 100 betties on naval attack at Poona and Hydebaran, put in the contested hex some 1500 AVs and then bomb with the IJAAF the place back to stoneage...he could even move back his KB to the pacific at that point...for sure i won't be able to counterinvade (with Diego and Scoodra in his hands) till 1944... strategically speaking that would be the same as if i'd lost India once for all.

His tanks will move easily on the desert? yes, maybe, but without a decent road system i hope that his supply lines will have some problems...and also i'm planning to use my tanks too for the first time. I have some decent armoured units and the 2pounders AT guns should do their jobs against the light jap tanks...

I also don't understand why my bombers should not be able to do what his bombers have done to my units so far till now...i mean, without an air cover (and if he wants to move northwards than Dehly he won't be able to operate his units under a decent LRCAP umbrella) his tanks will be exposed...

...well, maybe i'm just building up my hopes on false assumptions...maybe i just wanna hope i have some chances...maybe it's like that...but i don't wanna retreat again...i wanna try something this time.
And if this strategic plan will lead my armies to the final distruction...so will be. Will mean that Rader has defenetly outclassed me and he'd have deserved a full victory.

i'm sorry guys, but this time i'll try to follow my instinct. I'd just like to underline that i keep your suggestion under the best consideration and i know you're 99% right while i'm wrong...but i feel this time i have to learn it in the hard way...bumping my head against a stone wall.

And thanks again for everything. And i really mean that

(in reply to Nemo121)

Post #: 385

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/8/2011 12:38:20 PM

Nemo121

Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline

NO, neither Alfred nor I said that you should move to Bombay and concentrate everything there.

Again, you are jumping to conclusions without going through the process of planning. As such you are stating that we are promulgating a plan which we aren't and then deciding that's a bad plan ( a plan we never suggested).

As to the desert interdicting supplies. I suggest you read the portion of the manual relating to % supply loss from through supply through a desert hex. I don't think it will have the effect you hope for.

As to hoping you have some chance.... Oh I do believe you have a chance. In fact I think you should expect to be able to hold out in India and counter-attack sooner rather than later to relieve the garrison you have holding out IF you follow an appropriate plan. I also believe that if you undertake the plan you've outline you will throw away that chance.... Of course I respect your decision to decide to do it your way, I just don't believe that has a chance of success unless your opponent hugely messes up.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 386

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/8/2011 1:27:45 PM

ADB123

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

I also don't understand why my bombers should not be able to do what his bombers have done to my units so far till now...i mean, without an air cover (and if he wants to move northwards than Dehly he won't be able to operate his units under a decent LRCAP umbrella) his tanks will be exposed...

Are you playing with Advanced Weather "on" or "off"?

Either way:

- Don't base your plans on the assumption that you can do daily bombing raids
- Don't assume that your opponent can't LR CAP his advancing units
- Don't assume that 2E attacks will deter armoured advances

- Assume that your opponent can advance on multiple axes
- Remember that your opponent can do long range sweeps over any location that isn't under his control
- Remember that your opponent can attack your airbases too

Air Power is "nice" but in continental battles it isn't as important as in island invasions. In the end the things that matter in this situation are:

- How good are your ground troops
- How good are your opponent's ground troops

If you try to defend with troops that are inherently weak, or have been previously defeated, you will have great difficulties.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 387

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/8/2011 2:39:43 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

Are you playing with Advanced Weather "on" or "off"?

Either way:

- Don't base your plans on the assumption that you can do daily bombing raids
- Don't assume that your opponent can't LR CAP his advancing units
- Don't assume that 2E attacks will deter armoured advances

- Assume that your opponent can advance on multiple axes
- Remember that your opponent can do long range sweeps over any location that isn't under his control
- Remember that your opponent can attack your airbases too

Air Power is "nice" but in continental battles it isn't as important as in island invasions. In the end the things that matter in this situation are:

- How good are your ground troops
- How good are your opponent's ground troops

If you try to defend with troops that are inherently weak, or have been previously defeated, you will have great difficulties.

Think we're playin with adv weather on...but gotta check!

However i'm not contemplating he's not going to fight back with his mighty air armies. I'm just saying that i think i finally have a chance to fight at similar terms in the air. He can sweep and bomb me, but if i stay on the defensive he should be having some hard times cause range will be on my side. I have some 4Es that can keep him at bay on his own bases and some decent fighter units that can fight back defending their AFs.
My opponent's ground troops are for sure better than mines, at least in terms of exp, but i have some decent units (brit and aus above all) that hopefully can have a chance if defending fortified hexes and with the aid of the air bombers.
The weaker troops will remain in Karachi while the best ones will be moved to our forward perimeter bases (J. and H.)

(in reply to ADB123)

Post #: 388

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/8/2011 4:04:52 PM

modrow

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline

GreyJoy,

let me be quite direct: I think you throw away a great opportunity.

This is, of course, your game, so you can decide how to play it. I respect an approach which states "I'll do it my way and learn from my mistakes" which I believe you are about to take.

However, you are given the chance to be walked through a strategy bootcamp by seasoned strategy drill sergeants like Nemo "Chuck Norris" 121 and Alfred and seem to intend to dismiss it.

The difference is the result: In your approach you will perhaps learn how not to do it. Perhaps, because even if you are successful there is still the possibility that you blundered, but your opponent outblundered you.

The question-answer-approach suggested by Nemo, will make you learn how to do it. Yes, you will have used some help. Yes, you will not have done it all by yourself. But that's a cheap price for having learned something.

Just my 2cts.

Hartwig

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 389

RE: Breaking news: Calcutta falls - 5/8/2011 5:00:59 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

GreyJoy,

let me be quite direct: I think you throw away a great opportunity.

This is, of course, your game, so you can decide how to play it. I respect an approach which states "I'll do it my way and learn from my mistakes" which I believe you are about to take.

However, you are given the chance to be walked through a strategy bootcamp by seasoned strategy drill sergeants like Nemo "Chuck Norris" 121 and Alfred and seem to intend to dismiss it.

The difference is the result: In your approach you will perhaps learn how not to do it. Perhaps, because even if you are successful there is still the possibility that you blundered, but your opponent outblundered you.

The question-answer-approach suggested by Nemo, will make you learn how to do it. Yes, you will have used some help. Yes, you will not have done it all by yourself. But that's a cheap price for having learned something.

Just my 2cts.

Hartwig

Thx Hartwig,

but do you really all feel that i'm not approaching the strategic problem with a "question-answer" approach? because i do feel i'm trying to do exactly that...

Ok, let's try to express my thoughts in a clearer way.

Question nr. 1: Bombay, Karachi or both.

I chose the Karachi option, keeping at Bombay enough forces just not to give it away to Japan as an easy gift. the troops devoted to Bombay defence will mostly be low-experienced-armoured troops (mainly what was left after the Burma retreat). This choice is made by the assumption that those burmese units won't be able to oppose anything good in front of the japs in clear terrain, so in order to boost their capabilities i'll use them in the best fortified hex i have: Calcutta (forts level 5).
I chose Karachi as a main defensive position because i think that my hopes rely on my capabilities to keep the Aden Channell open. And that is possible, with the KB around, only if i'm able to keep karachi well alive and fed with troops, supplies and planes.
If i'd chose to defend Bombay i will probably be able to hold the hex for a long time...but Karachi won't be able to be held and with Karachi in japs' hands i think i'll be doomed anyway. what takes to have bombay if bombay is permanently isolated from the rest of the world??
Another thing i'm considering is that taking Karachi will take longer than isolate Bombay...so considering that my secondary goal is to keep him busy in India as long as possible i think Karachi is the best option.

Question nr. 2: How to defend Karachi.
I really think abbandon everything and dig in Karachi is the worst possible option. I need to fight and i need to slow him down as much as i can. probably the desert won't stop him but for sure the desert and the absence of a decent road system will slow him down much more than the developed road system that can be found near Bombay.
My Air forces may not win an attrition campaign but i hope that they can, if used correctly, give an hand in the slowing down process of the advancing jap armies.
I gotta say that i really don't have a clue about how my Aus and Brit troops will perform facing the mighty japanese divisions...but for sure they'll do better than the burmese battallions used in Burma or than the chinese corps i've experimented so far...For sure the AVs will be in my s-favour, and that's why i consider my bombers so much...without them i KNOW i won't be holding the line...but i have seen what the japs bombers can do to our troops in terms of destruction and fatigue so i want to believe that mines will have a similar impact.

....to be continued

(in reply to modrow)

Post #: 390