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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 12:56:20 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

What about a massive landing here?

Based upon the image you're showing, he's got a lot of ship movement between Fusan and Sagoshima / Hiroshima / S. N. Kyushu / Korea. My guess is that's how he's bringing in his oil, fuel and resources. Your Hokkaido operations have (obviously) interdicted resource and oil movement from N. Japan, so this is his remaining lifeline.

How heavily defended are Oki Shoto and / or Ulleungdo? Could these be inexpensively atttained and built up to challenge daily resource, oil and (possibly) LCUs movements across the Tsushima straits? I imagine some DBs and PTs based there would be a real pain in his neck. AND it would cut off the sea of Japan as a backwater for his navy.

Combined with a capture of Okinawa, Luzon or Formosa, this could another way of crimping import of his war material.

Chickenboy...yes, he's moving lots of stuff in the Tsushima strait but how am i supposed to invade anything outside my LBA umbrella without a decent CV force? His KB will eat alive anything that moves out of my LBA CAP and Okinawa, Luzon etc are simply too far away...
The Hokkaido adventure is clearly showing its weaknesses...the life-line of japan remains well open and, without my CVs, i'm forced to hit his defences frontally...

And am really scared about the KI-201 coming inline in 2 months...have you ever tested it? Is it that good?

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 6451

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:08:34 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
And am really scared about the KI-201 coming inline in 2 months...have you ever tested it? Is it that good?

Hi GreyJoy,

I've played around with it a bit in a furtive exploration of the "Downfall" scenario, but nothing significant. You'll be a real test subject for it for all of us JFBs.

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(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6452

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:12:18 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
how am i supposed to invade anything outside my LBA umbrella without a decent CV force? His KB will eat alive anything that moves out of my LBA CAP

How large a force would you need to capture either of these locations? If small to moderate sized, could you not LRCAP it from Sagoshima? Maybe a feinted invasion to CAP trap beforehand?

Taking one (or both) of these islands would have the benefit of obviating his ability to bring in additional land forces to the fight. He couldn't without fear of naval or air interdiction.

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Post #: 6453

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:14:00 PM

Canoerebel

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Take that 3,000 extra AV (not the stuff you have at Sadogashima) and sneak it across the map (be careful lest you bump into enemy subs that spoil the surprise). Use this force to waltz right into the DEI. If rader isn't paying attention, penetrate into his interior lines there and hit the Celebes or Ambon or the Borneo Coast. If he is paying attention, grab some really good (and proximate to each other) islands around Sumatra or Java. Don't use any carriers - or just a few CVE at most - and count on surprise. If it fails and you lose the force, big deal. If you succeed, suddenly you can hit his oil and fuel. Hopefully, you can stress him on that end of things. If so, he'll have to diver aircraft down that way, which will help you in Japan. If it doesn't hurt him, no harm done. You can just run amock down there, which will feel good.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 6454

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:14:13 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
And am really scared about the KI-201 coming inline in 2 months...have you ever tested it? Is it that good?

Hi GreyJoy,

I've played around with it a bit in a furtive exploration of the "Downfall" scenario, but nothing significant. You'll be a real test subject for it for all of us JFBs.

ahahahah

don't know if i like the idea of being a white mouse

Anyway, so far the 4th generation fighters of japanese industry are very good.
The best one is surely the KI-83, followed by the Frank-r and only third the Shidens. SAM is a very good fighter also and can easily tangle with the Spitfire Mk. VIII and with the corsairs being very very manouvrable.

The KI-83 and the Frank-R are clearly better because of their ability to fly easily at 38,000 feet and so covering the altitude where it used to dominate the P-47s

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 6455

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:28:30 PM

FatR

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As Chickenboy said, your third option is to try getting closer to Japan's lifeline, if it is possible. Also, concentration on bombing his aircraft factories. If you haven't upgraded to the latest beta yet, Allied night bombing should be practically unstoppable at this moment, if you did, well, once Sadogashima is impregnably fortified, over half of Japanese aircraft industry will be reachable by even most short-legged Allied fighters, so you still can do it with proper focus.

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(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6456

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:42:01 PM

GreyJoy

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We have stopped night bombing completely cause we are not happy with the results we're seeing (even with the latest beta nigth bombing is really overpowered).
Daylight bombing is an option...but i simply cannot efford to lose 200 planes each turn (2days-turn remember). His Franks, KI-83s, Shidens, Georges and SAMs are eating alive my escort and are running havoc among my B-29/B-24s.... a bombing campaign using 2E bombers is simply out of question cause they will get murdered in less than a week.
Rader has 2000 fighters around Tokyo, more 2000 around Kobe and more 1000 near Sasebo...i will do my best to shut down the KI.201 production but this will cost me lots of planes...probably too many...and he can easily repair those factories while i still produce ONLY 30 B-29s each month...
Just to be clear...as you remember i had completely destroyed the KI-83 production during the early summer offensive... ok now Rader is back producing more than 280 KI-83 each month and the numbers are still rising....

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 6457

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 1:46:29 PM

vettim89

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Considering this is scenario 2, you are unlikely to be able to cripple the Japanese economy at this point. Rader has most likely pooled enough HI for the duration. He likely has turned off all his Merchant Shipyards. He may have stopped most of his combat ship building. So, even if you were to completely shut off his oil/fuel pipeline, it would not stop him from building more aircraft which at this point in time is all he really needs. Ergo, I would continue the Strat Bombing of his aircraft factories.

I have heard the definition of insanity is repeating the same evolution over and over again expecting different results. I don't think a fourth invasion of Honshu is going to work any better than the first three. The only thing I can see working is to concentrate all you force on one of the already occupied bases. It is possible that you may be able to spook Rader if one of those bases looks like it is going to fall forcing him to abandon Ominato. Not likely, but it is your best bet in my mind.

Of the bases currently occupied, which one has the best AS ratio for you? Have you thought about carpet bombing one of them with a max effort? IF Rader complains, ask him if he has ever heard of the Falais Pocket

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6458

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 2:08:09 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Considering this is scenario 2, you are unlikely to be able to cripple the Japanese economy at this point. Rader has most likely pooled enough HI for the duration. He likely has turned off all his Merchant Shipyards. He may have stopped most of his combat ship building. So, even if you were to completely shut off his oil/fuel pipeline, it would not stop him from building more aircraft which at this point in time is all he really needs. Ergo, I would continue the Strat Bombing of his aircraft factories.

I have heard the definition of insanity is repeating the same evolution over and over again expecting different results. I don't think a fourth invasion of Honshu is going to work any better than the first three. The only thing I can see working is to concentrate all you force on one of the already occupied bases. It is possible that you may be able to spook Rader if one of those bases looks like it is going to fall forcing him to abandon Ominato. Not likely, but it is your best bet in my mind.

Of the bases currently occupied, which one has the best AS ratio for you? Have you thought about carpet bombing one of them with a max effort? IF Rader complains, ask him if he has ever heard of the Falais Pocket

With 7+ forts and 20/25 AA units in each base the carpet bombing simply doesn't work.
last time (2 weeks ago) i tried to ground bomb him at Hachinoe it ended up with 883 casualities for japan and 65 4Es destroyed by Flak in a single turn

Flak concentration is the best 4E killer of the game.

Hachinoe probably is the best AV i have...6300 AVs with a lot of tank units...

mmm...will do some tests...

(in reply to vettim89)

Post #: 6459

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 2:57:34 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Considering this is scenario 2, you are unlikely to be able to cripple the Japanese economy at this point. Rader has most likely pooled enough HI for the duration. He likely has turned off all his Merchant Shipyards. He may have stopped most of his combat ship building. So, even if you were to completely shut off his oil/fuel pipeline, it would not stop him from building more aircraft which at this point in time is all he really needs. Ergo, I would continue the Strat Bombing of his aircraft factories.

I have heard the definition of insanity is repeating the same evolution over and over again expecting different results. I don't think a fourth invasion of Honshu is going to work any better than the first three. The only thing I can see working is to concentrate all you force on one of the already occupied bases. It is possible that you may be able to spook Rader if one of those bases looks like it is going to fall forcing him to abandon Ominato. Not likely, but it is your best bet in my mind.

Of the bases currently occupied, which one has the best AS ratio for you? Have you thought about carpet bombing one of them with a max effort? IF Rader complains, ask him if he has ever heard of the Falais Pocket

With 7+ forts and 20/25 AA units in each base the carpet bombing simply doesn't work.
last time (2 weeks ago) i tried to ground bomb him at Hachinoe it ended up with 883 casualities for japan and 65 4Es destroyed by Flak in a single turn
Flak concentration is the best 4E killer of the game.

Hachinoe probably is the best AV i have...6300 AVs with a lot of tank units...

mmm...will do some tests...

GreyJoy,

What Vettim and others are asking for isn't tactical bombing of his LCUs with your heavy bombers, but a long-term and concerted effort against his strategic production (aircraft, engines) sites. If he's got 75 AAA units on your three bridgeheads, that's good news for your strat. bombing campaign! He must be stripping these from somewhere-likely his more distant cities (S. Honshu, Kyushu). These cities and their industries should be flattened.

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Post #: 6460

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 4:21:52 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Considering this is scenario 2, you are unlikely to be able to cripple the Japanese economy at this point. Rader has most likely pooled enough HI for the duration. He likely has turned off all his Merchant Shipyards. He may have stopped most of his combat ship building. So, even if you were to completely shut off his oil/fuel pipeline, it would not stop him from building more aircraft which at this point in time is all he really needs. Ergo, I would continue the Strat Bombing of his aircraft factories.

I have heard the definition of insanity is repeating the same evolution over and over again expecting different results. I don't think a fourth invasion of Honshu is going to work any better than the first three. The only thing I can see working is to concentrate all you force on one of the already occupied bases. It is possible that you may be able to spook Rader if one of those bases looks like it is going to fall forcing him to abandon Ominato. Not likely, but it is your best bet in my mind.

Of the bases currently occupied, which one has the best AS ratio for you? Have you thought about carpet bombing one of them with a max effort? IF Rader complains, ask him if he has ever heard of the Falais Pocket

With 7+ forts and 20/25 AA units in each base the carpet bombing simply doesn't work.
last time (2 weeks ago) i tried to ground bomb him at Hachinoe it ended up with 883 casualities for japan and 65 4Es destroyed by Flak in a single turn
Flak concentration is the best 4E killer of the game.

Hachinoe probably is the best AV i have...6300 AVs with a lot of tank units...

mmm...will do some tests...

As painful and boring as it is, it seems the best option now is to find airframe factories with less fighter and flak and try to shut them down while you wait until your pools of planes get higher and your navy recovers. This is not the most fun or most glorious method of finishing off this war, but it seems if you further split and isolate your forces you may just give the initiative back to rader.

I think you of all people can fight a sneaky air campaign and keep him guessing, unable to protect all of his most vital industries simultaneously.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6461

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 4:35:04 PM

vettim89

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Actually I was suggesting tactical bombing but did not know the AAA situation. Ouch that is bad. What about using old BBs and CAs from long range?

In that case you need to sustain the campaign against the a/c factories. Keep in mind that every factory point he repairs costs him 1000 supply. That might not sound like a lot but if you can do even 200-300 damage a month, it will add up. Japan never has the oodles of supply we AFB are used to having. You put a 300k supply drain on him every month just to keep even in a/c production and it will eventually sap his supplies. You need to think long term. Yes, the Japanese are still strong but it cannot sustain this level of operations for a long time. If you could do even 200 points of damage a month over six months, your opponent will either have to expend over a million supply points or gradually lose his a/c replacements. I don't know how good Rader is at managing the economy, but he may very well only have two or three million supplies total in all of Japan. Have you tried any firebombing? I know that it doesn't give historical results in AE but I have seen fires burn for three or four days while playing Downfall.

_____________________________

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Post #: 6462

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 5:13:18 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Actually I was suggesting tactical bombing but did not know the AAA situation. Ouch that is bad. What about using old BBs and CAs from long range?

In that case you need to sustain the campaign against the a/c factories. Keep in mind that every factory point he repairs costs him 1000 supply. That might not sound like a lot but if you can do even 200-300 damage a month, it will add up. Japan never has the oodles of supply we AFB are used to having. You put a 300k supply drain on him every month just to keep even in a/c production and it will eventually sap his supplies. You need to think long term. Yes, the Japanese are still strong but it cannot sustain this level of operations for a long time. If you could do even 200 points of damage a month over six months, your opponent will either have to expend over a million supply points or gradually lose his a/c replacements. I don't know how good Rader is at managing the economy, but he may very well only have two or three million supplies total in all of Japan. Have you tried any firebombing? I know that it doesn't give historical results in AE but I have seen fires burn for three or four days while playing Downfall.

Great points Vettim. Also, with the troops he has there now, and the troops most likely coming back home, minus everything that was on Hokkaido, supply could be an issue very quickly.

One thing to think about as well, as he focuses on your position in Japan, is that he may be bringing back more than oil, fuel and resources form the rest of the empire. I would bet massive amounts of supply are coming back in big convoys with lots of base forces, arty, and AA from Burma, the DEI and Manchuria. If there is any way to get a good amount of subs south of Japan in the open water areas, you might pick off some things that will begin to really hurt him.

(in reply to vettim89)

Post #: 6463

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 5:14:50 PM

Captain Cruft

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Fire bombing can destroy industry. All other attacks can only damage.

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Post #: 6464

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 7:54:29 PM

cwDeici

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If Rader has held all of China for most of the game and India for a year in Sc2 he's probably got a lot of resources stockpiled in Japan... defeating him will have to be rendered against production, units or territory.

Can GJ use the navy to specifically create fires?

Wide-ranging efforts against airfields and AC factories sounds good, but I think firebombing might turn the tables even faster.

Immolate Japan

Of course, if it turns out is possibly to turn Japan into a burning inferno, even with your HRs, you may find yourself in a discussion about the entertainment value of doing so...

I don't see any other way of winning though. The allied navy will recover, but the war has to be won in the air or on land. With the allied airforce accelerating I think Rader will be able to keep ahead, if I'm correct then it has to be strategic bombing (of which Greyjoy says doesn't work against the AC factories) or a fight on land. Posters seem to disagree on whether Greyjoy will eventually break through, so I don't know, but I thought the invasion would fail and I get a bad feeling now (from what I can analyze of all the comments he'd be quite likely to win in the future if his troops were landing in 45 on a single beach, but now most posters aren't sure though a small majority seems to think the lines will break sometime as long as supply is kept up (I'm not sure how GJ would modernize the troops stuck on the beach to '45 though). Rader has tons of reinforcements coming in the next year and can still withdraw numerous divisions from his Empire.

So the only remaining option would be to find a loophole of realism (probably firebombing, preferably at night) that can take out Japan's industry in half a year max.

< Message edited by cwDeici -- 2/4/2012 8:18:11 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)

Post #: 6465

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 8:02:54 PM

Schlemiel

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I'm curious about whether a combined arms approach might not still succeed on one beachhead in Honshu (as in I genuinely have no idea). Even though it would be extremely rough on your LCUs, would a focused beachhead be able to lower forts enough over time (with naval bombings keeping the building suppressed) to make air more viable? I'm not very familiar with the mechanics of engineers and fort building and bombardment to know the answer here, since Rader would be able to stack engineers like crazy. But if it is theoretically possible to lower forts by sacrificing engineers while suppressing their building, it could get rather nasty for Rader I imagine.

The comments of those of you with much more wisdom would be appreciated. If nothing else, I remember the advice given to Grey about Karachi was that rebuilding level 7+ forts can consume a lot of supplies.

Would it be possible to have engineers lower forts pre-attack with just engineering units attacking? How often could that reasonably be done?

For extremely gamey thought process purposes, do AA guns even try to fire (and therefore consume supplies) at aircraft above their effective AA ceiling? I would presume not, but if so, you could probably send a few fighters at stratospheric altitudes (or maybe even just small groups of old fighters with bad pilots at extreme AA gun ceiling) to "bomb" but really force him to waste lots of supplies from an AA concentration like that. Is flak effectiveness at all related to aircraft speed? If he turned them off to prevent such a waste, you could hit the base heavy with medium and tactical bombers. Like I said, extremely gamey, but an interesting thought experiment.

I'd also be curious what would happen if you took that reserve AV (plus whatever was in India that you have been moving) and attempted a version of your fake out Java/environs invasion while much of his airforce and likely the KB is distracted up by the Home Islands. That particular location you'd identified would be an interesting place to own, as he would suddenly need to spread out a lot of his fighter cover if he wishes to preserve his oil. Vettim may very well be right at this point that Rader doesn't need it, but he might react violently anyway. I'm certainly not advocating such an attack, as I have no idea what the situation on the ground looks like there, but something to consider (might have been even a stronger consideration before the carrier fleet bought it). Mostly I'd just be curious what a JFB's reaction would be at this stage with Hokkaido in Allied hands to an invasion of Java. Would the "must preserve oil" reflex kick in or not.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)

Post #: 6466

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 8:11:59 PM

cwDeici

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Fire bombing can destroy industry. All other attacks can only damage.

Well then, it is the surest way to victory unless it does much less overall destruction, and going by Rader's reaction in the tech support thread it does a lot of it.

Rader made a mistake rescinding the rule banning nightbombing. It's back up to 20k, but it might still work (and if it does, make sure the rule is kept). And use your ships. Japan must burn! (Disclaimer: I love modern-day Japan.)

Oh and I totally hope you go for the idea of 'gaming' the Soviets into Japan, the US might not have been willing to split the zone of influene IRL, but they didn't have a clock on them announcing defeat at a set point in time and if things were progressing the way they are they would've sent more resources to the PTO. Given a US that cares less I think they'd be willing to split their zone of influence.

< Message edited by cwDeici -- 2/4/2012 10:09:56 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)

Post #: 6467

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 8:26:34 PM

Captain Cruft

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In my experience Manpower (fire) bombing is only really effective below 10,000ft.

I really don't understand why there are any HRs about this. How were Japan's cities destroyed in reality? By B-29s coming in at night at around 7,000ft, IIRC.

(in reply to cwDeici)

Post #: 6468

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/4/2012 10:11:53 PM

cwDeici

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

In my experience Manpower (fire) bombing is only really effective below 10,000ft.

I really don't understand why there are any HRs about this. How were Japan's cities destroyed in reality? By B-29s coming in at night at around 7,000ft, IIRC.

At the end of the day - because it works very well for them. They are both enjoying and building a friendship out of the game which rests on the rules they agreed on and they're good at working with each other, also part of that enjoyment is because Rader gets to see how far he can push Japan and GJ gets to be extra creative due to the necessity.

However, we should probably avoid this topic as talking about how unfair the HRs are (or the 8 day bombing of PH for the matter) almost inevitably leads to numerous assertions regarding game ethics, which GJ wants us to avoid. Not that I don't agree with you completely. :)

---
It still seemed to be effective at 15,000 feet though, going by the earlier result. Was that just a massively lucky blow, and if not is there any way to tweak it up another five thousand?

< Message edited by cwDeici -- 2/4/2012 10:24:39 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)

Post #: 6469

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/5/2012 11:46:22 AM

GreyJoy

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Sorry for the delay guys...been a slow week end with my GF being parked by my house...

Anyway, here are my thoughts:

A DEI-SRA diversion won't be of any use imho. As some of you pointed out Rader by now should have a HUGE stockpile of everything and i don't think he will be reacting violently...he doesn't need the KB at home now and the KB alone would be enough to change this diversion in another utter defeat.

A strat bombing daylight campaign is surely possible but we're facing the old same problem: he has so many fighters (and good ones too) that my losses during a prolonged daylight bombing campaign will simply be unsustainable. 2 turns ago i tried using 320 heaviest (B-24s and B-29s), escorted by 200 wildcats against 3 KI-201 factories. We managed to destroy them but the price paid was high...nearly 80 heaviest lost....in a single 2 days-turn... having only 30 B-29s each month coming as replacements the math is simple: i will be out of bombers within a month.
The only way i see is to concentrate on a single a/c type and try to "laser bomb" the factories producing it...hoping that with 10 missions in two months i will be able to destroy most of its production...
But the fact is that this won't change the course of the war clearly.

So, if a strat bombing campaign isn't possible (at least not in the terms we're used to think compared to RL), if a war against his economy is out of question, the only way left to me is the attempt to conquer a base in Honshu.
i still think it can be done...i remember you that at Hachinoe we were close...we gained a 1-2 with forts down...and we obtained that result with the bug that prevented my bombers to bomb his ground troops...i'm pretty sure with a massive air bombing on that turn we would have been able to get a 1-1 or even a 2-1.
Now Rader has most of his forces (artillery above all) stuck in the north...
I think a combined operation in which we reinforce one of the beacheads and we land at the same time at Nigigata with 4/5000 AVs can obtain something...
The presence of Sadogashima Airfiled may give us the opportunity to land under a huge CAP umbrella... and the fact that most of his AA is stuck up in the north may give our bombers the change of destroying his ground troops at Nigigata before he can rail in his reserves....

Still planning...but i do see a light...

(in reply to cwDeici)

Post #: 6470

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/5/2012 2:11:08 PM

princep01

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Sorry for the delay guys...been a slow week end with my GF being parked by my house...

Ser Greyjoy, As one gentleman to another, I ask that you allow your GF in the house. It just isn't right to leave her "parked" outside by your house. It gets cold overnight in a car this time of year. Yes, I realize that the gentler sex can be most annoying at times, and the tempation is there to allow them to vent their vitrol overnight while parked outside your house, but ser...enough is enough...the whole weekend???

Of course, I am assumning she is not stalking you. There are reports elsewhere in this Forum of a "Stalker Girl" haranging a certain captain. But. given your great accomplishments and stature in the community, I am sure many women swoon at your approach and howl like shopping mobs at Macy's to accompany you to the theater and whatnot. However, it is time to let her in. Be a gent, go out, sweep her bodily from the car and invite her into the warmth of hearth and bed.

I realize the wench cost you 30 CVEs, but surely the bill is now paid in full. Go forth and silence her with a ballad most sweet. From long personal experience, I can attest that there are times when a man can find a wench more than a bit comforting.

Feel free to place her back in the car overnight should she insist upon incessantly nagging about how you love you WitPAE game more than her....they do that with some regularity as well.

Smooth sailing, Admiral.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6471

another disaster - 2/5/2012 5:05:52 PM

GreyJoy

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Status: offline

Ok...we're done... there's no way i can hope to do anything if 2500 fighters on 50%CAP, with 7 Air HQs, plenty of radars and the best pilots ever cannot defend not even a base...

lost 1000 planes today...nearly 750 bombers...something like 6 months of production...

What would have happened if those Helens were Betties with torpedoes? What would be left of my BB and surface fleet?

Is there any way to defend against these strikes?

I mean...not a single Helen...NOT A SINGLE HELEN in 2 DAYS have been shot down by my fighters.... and guys...my fighters are the best of the best...

If tomorrow Rader sends 500 betties the war is over...

I think the only solution is to withdraw...i hate to say it but there's no way to defend my fleet...

This is the third time we suffer it... with the CVEs at Uruppu...with the CVs at Sagoshima...and now at Hakodate...and this time we were lucky that he aimed at the airfield and not at the fleet...

however our 4E fleet is no more...

Oh...and his E class TFs are killing every single sub they spot....

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 03, 44
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ASW attack near Ominato at 122,61

Japanese Ships
E Hoko

Allied Ships
SS Tang

SS Tang is located by E Hoko
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

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ASW attack near Ominato at 123,61

Japanese Ships
E Yashiro
E Hoko

Allied Ships
SS Puffer, hits 1

SS Puffer is located by E Yashiro
Puffer diving deep ....
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko attacking submerged sub ....
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hoko fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

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Sub attack near Iwaki at 119,61

Japanese Ships
E No.132, Shell hits 1, on fire
E No.39, Shell hits 1
E Ikuna

Allied Ships
SS Kete, hits 13, on fire, heavy damage

SS Kete launches 2 torpedoes at E No.132
Kete diving deep ....
E No.132 fails to find sub and abandons search
E No.39 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.39 attacking submerged sub ....
SS Kete forced to surface!
E No.39 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.132 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.132 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.132 firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.39 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.132 firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.39 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.132 firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.39 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.132 firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.39 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Ikuna firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hakodate , at 119,53

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 167
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 452
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 375

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Seafire L.III x 3
Mosquito FB.VI x 14
Spitfire VIII x 72
Thunderbolt I x 12
Thunderbolt II x 6
Spitfire VIII x 20
F4U-1D Corsair x 25
P-38J Lightning x 16
P-38L Lightning x 66
P-39N2 Airacobra x 11
P-39N1 Airacobra x 10
P-40N5 Warhawk x 56
P-40N26 Warhawk x 6
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 21
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 92
P-51B Mustang x 36
FM-2 Wildcat x 48
F4U-1A Corsair x 93
F4U-1D Corsair x 139
F6F-3 Hellcat x 184
F6F-5 Hellcat x 246

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 63 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 183 destroyed
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 2 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 5 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 5 destroyed on ground
Thunderbolt I: 1 damaged
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed on ground
Thunderbolt II: 4 damaged
Thunderbolt II: 1 destroyed on ground
Spitfire VIII: 2 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 2 destroyed on ground
F4U-1D Corsair: 4 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed on ground
P-38J Lightning: 3 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 2 destroyed on ground
P-38L Lightning: 29 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 13 destroyed on ground
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 damaged
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed on ground
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed on ground
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged
FM-2 Wildcat: 5 destroyed on ground
F4U-1A Corsair: 6 damaged
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed on ground
F4U-1D Corsair: 25 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 5 destroyed on ground
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed on ground
F6F-5 Hellcat: 3 destroyed, 20 damaged
F6F-5 Hellcat: 11 destroyed on ground
B-25H Mitchell: 8 destroyed on ground
C-47 Skytrain: 12 destroyed on ground
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 3 destroyed on ground
PB4Y-1P Liberator: 2 destroyed on ground
B-29-1 Superfort: 29 destroyed on ground
C-87 Liberator: 5 destroyed on ground
B-24J Liberator: 45 destroyed on ground
Liberator B.VI: 6 destroyed on ground
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 destroyed on ground
P-70A-1 Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
C-46A Commando: 8 destroyed on ground
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 5 destroyed on ground
Beaufort I: 3 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 12 destroyed on ground
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 6 destroyed on ground
SBD-5 Dauntless: 2 destroyed on ground
PV-1 Ventura: 2 destroyed on ground
B-25D1 Mitchell: 3 destroyed on ground
Dakota III: 3 destroyed on ground
B-24D1 Liberator: 3 destroyed on ground
F-5A Lightning: 3 destroyed on ground
Wellington Ic: 2 destroyed on ground
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 4 destroyed on ground
Liberator II: 2 destroyed on ground
F-7A Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground
Wellington B.X: 2 destroyed on ground
F-5E Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 destroyed on ground
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20G Havoc: 2 destroyed on ground
F6F-3N Hellcat: 1 destroyed on ground
Beaufighter VIf: 3 destroyed on ground
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 60
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 159

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
31 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-43-IV Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
37 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
22 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
28 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-43-IV Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
5 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-43-IV Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
1 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
1 x Ki-43-IV Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
1 x Ki-43-IV Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
4 x Ki-43-IV Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet
4 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-21 with F6F-3 Hellcat (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000
Raid is overhead
343rd FG/18th FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 42000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VMF-312 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 22 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 20 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 21 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VF-23 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hakodate , at 119,53

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 37 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 9
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 57
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 78

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 15
Seafire L.III x 2
Mosquito FB.VI x 12
Spitfire VIII x 66
Thunderbolt I x 11
Thunderbolt II x 6
Spitfire VIII x 17
F4U-1D Corsair x 21
P-38J Lightning x 14
P-38L Lightning x 57
P-39N2 Airacobra x 10
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 50
P-40N26 Warhawk x 5
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 20
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 86
P-51B Mustang x 32
FM-2 Wildcat x 40
F4U-1A Corsair x 88
F4U-1D Corsair x 126
F6F-3 Hellcat x 168
F6F-5 Hellcat x 225

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 6 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 21 destroyed
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 7 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Mosquito FB.VI: 4 damaged
Mosquito FB.VI: 2 destroyed on ground
Spitfire VIII: 3 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 2 destroyed on ground
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed on ground
P-38L Lightning: 14 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 3 destroyed on ground
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 damaged
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
P-40N26 Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 5 damaged
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed on ground
P-51B Mustang: 4 damaged
P-51B Mustang: 2 destroyed on ground
FM-2 Wildcat: 2 damaged
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 damaged
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed on ground
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed on ground
F6F-3 Hellcat: 15 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 5 destroyed on ground
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 damaged
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed on ground
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed on ground
B-24J Liberator: 12 destroyed on ground
B-29-1 Superfort: 7 destroyed on ground
C-47 Skytrain: 15 destroyed on ground
Wellington B.X: 1 destroyed on ground
C-87 Liberator: 2 destroyed on ground
B-25H Mitchell: 3 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed on ground
C-46A Commando: 4 destroyed on ground
P-61A Black Widow: 1 destroyed on ground
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed on ground
Liberator B.VI: 3 destroyed on ground
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed on ground
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 1 destroyed on ground
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground
Avenger II: 1 destroyed on ground
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
30 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
28 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-21 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters to 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
343rd FG/18th FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 42000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes
VMF-312 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 8 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
24 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
19 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17880.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 17 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 85 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
21 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 57 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (12 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) intercepting now.
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 66 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 66 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (3 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-23 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hakodate , at 119,53

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 29
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 25

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 14
Seafire L.III x 2
Mosquito FB.VI x 12
Spitfire VIII x 63
Thunderbolt I x 10
Thunderbolt II x 6
Spitfire VIII x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 21
P-38J Lightning x 13
P-38L Lightning x 54
P-39N2 Airacobra x 8
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 47
P-40N26 Warhawk x 5
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 19
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 78
P-51B Mustang x 29
FM-2 Wildcat x 36
F4U-1A Corsair x 82
F4U-1D Corsair x 122
F6F-3 Hellcat x 159
F6F-5 Hellcat x 219

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 15 destroyed
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 9 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed on ground
P-38L Lightning: 4 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed on ground
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed on ground
B-25H Mitchell: 2 destroyed on ground
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 2 destroyed on ground
F6F-3N Hellcat: 1 destroyed on ground
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed on ground
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed on ground
C-46A Commando: 1 destroyed on ground
C-87 Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed on ground
Liberator B.VI: 1 destroyed on ground
Beaufort I: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
C-47 Skytrain: 2 destroyed on ground
P-61A Black Widow: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-21 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 7 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters to 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
343rd FG/18th FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 42000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-312 with F4U-1A Corsair (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 15 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 11 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 10 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 11 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 27 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 9 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 16 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 8 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 5 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 13 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 8 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 11 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17020.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 4 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-23 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Sadogashima , at 114,56

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J7W1 Shinden x 9

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 36
Spitfire VIII x 12
Spitfire VIII x 10
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W1 Shinden: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
No.851 Sqn-FF FAA with Corsair II (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
No.896 Sqn FAA with Corsair II (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
No.1836 Sqn FAA with Corsair II (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 24000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
No.123 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
No.607 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
343rd FG/18th FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 42000 , scrambling fighters between 23000 and 42000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
23rd FG/74th FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 42000 , scrambling fighters between 22000 and 42000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 04, 44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kushiro at 124,60

Japanese Ships
E No.35
E No.23

Allied Ships
SS Roncador, hits 6

SS Roncador is sighted by escort
Roncador diving deep ....
E No.35 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.23 fails to find sub and abandons search
E No.35 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.35 attacking submerged sub ....
E No.35 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.35 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.35 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kushiro at 124,60

Japanese Ships
E No.138
PB Shotoku Maru
E No.207
E No.205

Allied Ships
SS Roncador, hits 10, heavy damage

SS Roncador launches 2 torpedoes at E No.138
Roncador diving deep ....
E No.207 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.205 attacking submerged sub ....
Debris floats to surface in area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hakodate , at 119,53

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 37
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 296

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Seafire L.III x 2
Mosquito FB.VI x 10
Spitfire VIII x 67
Thunderbolt I x 12
Thunderbolt II x 7
Spitfire VIII x 17
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
P-38J Lightning x 12
P-38L Lightning x 51
P-39N2 Airacobra x 10
P-39N1 Airacobra x 8
P-40N5 Warhawk x 50
P-40N26 Warhawk x 6
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 18
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 87
P-51B Mustang x 31
FM-2 Wildcat x 37
F4U-1A Corsair x 59
F4U-1D Corsair x 110
F6F-3 Hellcat x 166
F6F-5 Hellcat x 205

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 14 destroyed
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 13 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 8 damaged
Corsair II: 1 destroyed on ground
Mosquito FB.VI: 7 damaged
Mosquito FB.VI: 2 destroyed on ground
Spitfire VIII: 10 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 9 destroyed on ground
F4U-1D Corsair: 4 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 11 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 4 destroyed on ground
P-38L Lightning: 22 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 15 destroyed on ground
P-39N1 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-39N1 Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 damaged
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 10 damaged
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 8 destroyed on ground
P-51B Mustang: 5 damaged
P-51B Mustang: 2 destroyed on ground
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 damaged
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
F4U-1A Corsair: 5 damaged
F4U-1A Corsair: 4 destroyed on ground
F4U-1D Corsair: 16 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 5 destroyed on ground
F6F-3 Hellcat: 5 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed on ground
F6F-5 Hellcat: 41 damaged
F6F-5 Hellcat: 14 destroyed on ground
B-24J Liberator: 16 destroyed on ground
B-29-1 Superfort: 7 destroyed on ground
B-25H Mitchell: 13 destroyed on ground
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 9 destroyed on ground
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 8 destroyed on ground
Barracuda II: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 9 destroyed on ground
PV-1 Ventura: 3 destroyed on ground
C-47 Skytrain: 26 destroyed on ground
Liberator B.VI: 10 destroyed on ground
Wellington GR.XIII: 1 destroyed on ground
P-61A Black Widow: 1 destroyed on ground
C-87 Liberator: 6 destroyed on ground
Wellington B.X: 3 destroyed on ground
Beaufighter TF.X: 3 destroyed on ground
C-46A Commando: 8 destroyed on ground
Beaufighter VIf: 1 destroyed on ground
TBF-1 Avenger: 5 destroyed on ground
B-25J1 Mitchell: 2 destroyed on ground
Dakota III: 1 destroyed on ground
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 2 destroyed on ground
F-7A Liberator: 2 destroyed on ground
F6F-3N Hellcat: 1 destroyed on ground
F6F-5N Hellcat: 2 destroyed on ground
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 3 destroyed on ground
F-5A Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground
Beaufort I: 1 destroyed on ground
P-70A-1 Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
Wellington Ic: 4 destroyed on ground
B-25D1 Mitchell: 3 destroyed on ground
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed on ground
PB4Y-1P Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground
Liberator II: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 31
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 86

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
28 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
20 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
34 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-21 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-312 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 3 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (1 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (3 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-23 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hakodate , at 119,53

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 24

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 15
Seafire L.III x 2
Mosquito FB.VI x 10
Spitfire VIII x 65
Thunderbolt I x 10
Thunderbolt II x 7
Spitfire VIII x 17
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
P-38J Lightning x 12
P-38L Lightning x 49
P-39N2 Airacobra x 9
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 46
P-40N26 Warhawk x 6
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 18
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 82
P-51B Mustang x 30
FM-2 Wildcat x 35
F4U-1A Corsair x 56
F4U-1D Corsair x 110
F6F-3 Hellcat x 155
F6F-5 Hellcat x 196

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 14 destroyed

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-21 with F6F-3 Hellcat (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000
Raid is overhead
VMF-312 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17020.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
20 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
VF-23 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters to 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hakodate , at 119,53

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 113 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 20

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 15
Seafire L.III x 2
Mosquito FB.VI x 10
Spitfire VIII x 63
Thunderbolt I x 10
Thunderbolt II x 7
Spitfire VIII x 17
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
P-38J Lightning x 12
P-38L Lightning x 47
P-39N2 Airacobra x 8
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 44
P-40N26 Warhawk x 5
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 18
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 78
P-51B Mustang x 28
FM-2 Wildcat x 35
F4U-1A Corsair x 51
F4U-1D Corsair x 110
F6F-3 Hellcat x 142
F6F-5 Hellcat x 187

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 9 destroyed

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-21 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
VMF-312 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-23 with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 4 on standby, 4 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes

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(in reply to princep01)

Post #: 6472

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 5:12:42 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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amd this is the second day...despite the small escort ALL the bombers got through (some of them were caught on their way back...but all of them were able to drop)...

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(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6473

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 5:13:24 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

...

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(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6474

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 5:19:14 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

And the flak??? Seems that when you overstack it it becomes TOO powerfull, while when you have a "normal" number (meaning 10 AA units plus several base forces) it is completely useless against large raids...

9 forts btw...

and yet again...my CAP was out of position and most of my squadrons never took off...it's the third time in a row for me...i think i cannot call it anymore "bad luck"

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6475

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 5:53:29 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

This is just a strange result. I think just as rader does, you should bring it to the tech forum, (if you haven't already). There is no way he should not lose one bomber with that kind of CAP in the air and the decent amount of flak you have at the base.

You guys are definitely going boldly where no player has gone before and I'm sorry you have to go through this kind of painful devastation while the mechanics are tested.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/5/2012 6:16:46 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6476

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 5:59:42 PM

Captain Cruft

Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline

Have you got a screenie of Hakodate? Plus some airgroup settings?

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 6477

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 6:09:54 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

Doh, was your airfield overstacked ?

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Post #: 6478

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 6:18:27 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

I'd like to do the math on that a/f. My guess is it's massively overstacked. This tends to make the destruction dynamics wonky too.

Can't explain the failure to intercept incoming strike bombers though. I would guess that it's a consistent application of the model, just with you getting the dirty side of the stick.

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(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)

Post #: 6479

RE: another disaster - 2/5/2012 6:28:29 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Well, sad to say but I think you both are just exposing the limitation of the game engine. Unfortunately, this really becomes apparent late in the game. Most campaigns just never get this far so it is doubtful that these massive air battles were really ever playtested.
The real question is what are the solutions and can any real solutions be implemented.

Something like much more serious coordination penalties and stricter limits on over stacking. The issues with massive air battles are different now from WITP but follow a similar pattern in that the game just does not seem to handle them well.

Don't be to hard on yourself or the game Greyjoy. You and Rader are at a point where I doubt many campaign games have gone to and it was almost a given that problems would show up. It could not be avoided and no amount of HRs will change that.

I was only too pleased to read your exploits and do think you had the game won when you took Hokkaido. We all know that your invasion of the main island was a risk that you did more for the fun of it than anything else.

As for scen #2, I think you have shown us all that a more deliberate game that attacks Japanese LOC and oil is probably the smart way to go for the average player. And given a good Japanese player, it won't happen before 1945-46.

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(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)

Post #: 6480