RE: LOD IS CROSSED

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: LOD IS CROSSED

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RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 11:11:59 AM

ADB123

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

Forgot to say that we sent another recon-kamikaze unit at Jodpur... he has slightly encreased the AV but he's nowhere close to the needed 30k!

You are taking advantage of the game mechanics here. I'm not impressed.

You mean it's considered gamey? Those units were pushed out from Jodpur into the desert and they marched back to Jodpur. Could you please explain me why is not considered fair? I would not want Rader to think i do something "gamey"...

thanks

Did you march them back deliberately in order to find out exactly what your opponent had at Jodhpur, because the Game gives you that information?

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Post #: 991

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 11:17:10 AM

GreyJoy

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Oh..yes...now i understand what you mean...yes, i did it deliberately... I never thought about the "gameyness" aspect of this behaviour...i'll talk about that with Rader and ask what he thinks about it... Sincerly now that i think about it...isn't the same of having picket lines of AKs-PBs all around the oceans? ...and it seems everybody does it...

However didn't want to make a gamey thing. Need to talk about that with Rader

Thanks !

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Post #: 992

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 12:01:19 PM

GreyJoy

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Indian situation map at Oct 2 1942

Multan can be considered lost...we do expect a big para-drop for the 3rd of October...units there are completely mauled by his bombing campaign...from 150 AVs now only 35 are left...

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Post #: 993

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 12:02:48 PM

ADB123

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh..yes...now i understand what you mean...yes, i did it deliberately... I never thought about the "gameyness" aspect of this behaviour...i'll talk about that with Rader and ask what he thinks about it... Sincerly now that i think about it...isn't the same of having picket lines of AKs-PBs all around the oceans? ...and it seems everybody does it...

However didn't want to make a gamey thing. Need to talk about that with Rader

Thanks !

Well, you got some "vanity information", because you will eventually find out what your opponent brings to battle anyway. He isn't going to surprise you with his final target. And you wasted a unit that could have been moved around to cut a rail line.

As far as "picket" AKs go, I'm glad that none of my three pbem opponents use them - I wouldn't be impressed with that either.

Play the game as you like, but remember, you don't have to take advantage of the weaknesses of the game to play a good and enjoyable game.

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Post #: 994

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 12:14:01 PM

GreyJoy

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And this is today A2A combat report...we've reached a good 3-1 odd today. Especially the oscars are, by now, completely outclassed

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Post #: 995

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 12:21:57 PM

Canoerebel

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GreyJoy, it is not in the least bit gamey. If Japan had actually invaded India in a big way, Indian partisans, scouts, and spies would have alerted the Allies to exactly what the force consisted of. You are accomplishing exactly the same thing in a reasonable way. Also, rader could stop the tactic by throwing a ring of units around Jodpur to prevent infiltration, but he failed to do so. When there is a counter to a valid tactic, it is in no way gamey.

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Post #: 996

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 1:40:19 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh..yes...now i understand what you mean...yes, i did it deliberately... I never thought about the "gameyness" aspect of this behaviour...i'll talk about that with Rader and ask what he thinks about it... Sincerly now that i think about it...isn't the same of having picket lines of AKs-PBs all around the oceans? ...and it seems everybody does it...

However didn't want to make a gamey thing. Need to talk about that with Rader

Thanks !

Well, you got some "vanity information", because you will eventually find out what your opponent brings to battle anyway. He isn't going to surprise you with his final target. And you wasted a unit that could have been moved around to cut a rail line.

As far as "picket" AKs go, I'm glad that none of my three pbem opponents use them - I wouldn't be impressed with that either.

Play the game as you like, but remember, you don't have to take advantage of the weaknesses of the game to play a good and enjoyable game.

Got your point ADB. Believe me when i say that i never tried to exploit the game mechanics...i'm trying to have a fair and amusing game for both of us (and i think this game has been real fun for both of us till now).

As far as i can tell it's just a matter of tastes...as long as the two players agree on the basic HRs and play accordingly there's nothing gamey.

Thanks!

GJ

(in reply to ADB123)

Post #: 997

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 1:54:43 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

GreyJoy, it is not in the least bit gamey. If Japan had actually invaded India in a big way, Indian partisans, scouts, and spies would have alerted the Allies to exactly what the force consisted of. You are accomplishing exactly the same thing in a reasonable way. Also, rader could stop the tactic by throwing a ring of units around Jodpur to prevent infiltration, but he failed to do so. When there is a counter to a valid tactic, it is in no way gamey.

And further, hindsight has shown that the game should provide Indian invasion reinforcements when Socotra is invaded. So it could be considered gamey (even unintentionally so) for a player to take Socotra before crossing the LOD.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 998

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 2:03:33 PM

beppi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh..yes...now i understand what you mean...yes, i did it deliberately... I never thought about the "gameyness" aspect of this behaviour...i'll talk about that with Rader and ask what he thinks about it... Sincerly now that i think about it...isn't the same of having picket lines of AKs-PBs all around the oceans? ...and it seems everybody does it...

However didn't want to make a gamey thing. Need to talk about that with Rader

Thanks !

Well, you got some "vanity information", because you will eventually find out what your opponent brings to battle anyway. He isn't going to surprise you with his final target. And you wasted a unit that could have been moved around to cut a rail line.

As far as "picket" AKs go, I'm glad that none of my three pbem opponents use them - I wouldn't be impressed with that either.

Play the game as you like, but remember, you don't have to take advantage of the weaknesses of the game to play a good and enjoyable game.

Got your point ADB. Believe me when i say that i never tried to exploit the game mechanics...i'm trying to have a fair and amusing game for both of us (and i think this game has been real fun for both of us till now).

As far as i can tell it's just a matter of tastes...as long as the two players agree on the basic HRs and play accordingly there's nothing gamey.

Thanks!

GJ

Your method is by no way gamey. If you would have used a fragment you could consider it gamey, if you parafrag you could consider it gamey, if you frag-sub invade or frag APD invade to check the strength you could consider it gamey. Moving a complete unit where you are allowed to move is not gamey.

Reder does not even need to "surround" his stack to prevent. Just follow your units with one little armored unit which is faster than you baseforce changes the hexside to japanese and prevents you from entering. So quite easy to secure a stack of you units against scounting if you want to. And what easily can be prevented and follows the game rules is not gamey.

< Message edited by beppi -- 6/22/2011 2:05:37 PM >

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Post #: 999

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 2:19:33 PM

GreyJoy

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Well guys, thanks, i think there's no need to discuss any further about it. As i said i think it's a matter of different "tastes".

Thanks ADB for bringing the thing to my attention...you never stop learning with this game!

Finally we're back with enough PPs to start changing air commanders...i had to replace some men in charge of some airgroups...(couple of Hurri IIa squadrons)...let's see if it changes anything.

Following String's suggestion we've conquested Koumak (i know it's wrongly spelled but have no time to check :-) ) (northern New Caledonia) and another couple of bases around Erromango and Efate.

We're now ready to unload a base force at Nadi (north east of Lungaville)...we'll estabilish a little strip here in order to use our catalinas and our brand new P-38-F4s to scout the Solomons...

Apparently the whole area has been abbandoned by Rader...

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Post #: 1000

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 2:28:04 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm in mid-Nov 42 playing as Japan. Tojo kick butt and don't take any names!! I have four groups that are getting better and better every time the Allies fly over their base. You will find out how 'nasty' they are once he gets a large enough base 8 hexes away. I have re-started a game as Allies and we are only in mid-Jan 42 and I'm not looking forward to seeing them in less than 6 months.

Tojos are doing fine. Especially they seem to be very nimble and it's always a tough task to shoot down one of them. However their firepower hasn't impressed me much so far. They aren't killer machines...but the do not burn like a match as do Oscars and Zeros.
However also consider that till now i've always and only faced Tojos massed in a 180/200 sweeping group...so numbers may change the perception of their actual strenghts and weakness

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Post #: 1001

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 2:33:26 PM

jeffk3510

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GreyJoy- looking forward to seeing how your new air commanders do. Are you changing LCU commonders? Just curious...

As to the move...doesn't sound gamey at all to me...not to beat a dead horse, but just thougth I would throw in my two cents..

Looking forward to how things will shake out. The information you received from giants on the subs is top notch. I, too, have a soft spot for subs ...

Keep it up.

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 1002

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 2:44:02 PM

GreyJoy

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Forgot to say that last turn - FINALLY - after months of dude torps and sunk subs (damned air ASW!) the S-45 managed to penetrate Rabaul harbour where she torpedoed a TK that later sunk during the night

...let's hope this is just a beginning...i'm really looking forward to see how 1943 will be for sub warfare...For sure i'll be dedicated to it!

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Post #: 1003

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 3:39:13 PM

kjnoel

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One of your lurking fans here. I'm enjoying your AAR immensely and really admire your fighting spirit!

Do you know HOW Rader is so effective with his air ASW? I am encountering the same in my PBEM; I'm actually the Japanese so it isn't just a Japanese thing, mine is useless and my opponent hits 1 - 2 of my subs every turn. Understandably he doesn't want to let on what he's doing and I haven't been able to stumble on the answer yet.

AE is tough on us beginners!

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Post #: 1004

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 3:52:56 PM

Canoerebel

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My experience has been that Allied sub warfare remains ineffective even after the dud rate goes down. This is because IJN ASW ability increases dramatically in 1943, so that Allied subs are mainly victims.

Of course, subs still play an important role in the game, and Allied subs periodically do something that really hurts Japan. But in my games IJN ASW is so effective that submarine warfare doesn't choke Japan as it did in real life.

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Post #: 1005

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 4:10:39 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

One of your lurking fans here. I'm enjoying your AAR immensely and really admire your fighting spirit!

Do you know HOW Rader is so effective with his air ASW? I am encountering the same in my PBEM; I'm actually the Japanese so it isn't just a Japanese thing, mine is useless and my opponent hits 1 - 2 of my subs every turn. Understandably he doesn't want to let on what he's doing and I haven't been able to stumble on the answer yet.

AE is tough on us beginners!

Hi kjnoel and welcome aboard!

Glad you like this aar :-)

As far as i can tell Rader has trained for months lots of pilots in ASW skill. When he reached an avg of 70s he setted up some Helens squadrons filled with these pilots and put them on Important bases.

However i've experienced the same at Karachi. If you go back you'll see that after the first raids of the KB at Karachi, Rader had substituted her role with something like 30 subs in order to impose a stiff blockade. I've lost some 20/25 AKs/TKs because of those damned subs in those waters but when i decided to place 100 bombers on Naval search at 1000-2000 ft i started to get 10 hits reported every single day!!...This, within 2 weeks, has forced Rader to move back all his subs (the same subs that we've just seen operating in the pacific against my CVs).

So i think Air ASW is simply too effective (no matter what side). Once you have good trained pilots for ASW or Naval Search then subs won't be a problem anymore around those bases...

Something that needs to be tweakened imho

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Post #: 1006

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 6:17:59 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

Do you know HOW Rader is so effective with his air ASW?

No idea how Rader is doing it, but my understanding is to get your pilots up to 70+ in ASW skill. Good Naval Search skills likely won't hurt either. Also, some people claim that ASW missions at 1,000 or 2,000ft are best. In addition I suspect they use lots and lots of the longest range LBA available for the ASW mission.

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Post #: 1007

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 10:17:57 PM

terje439

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

i'm trying to have a fair and amusing game for both of us (and i think this game has been real fun for both of us till now).

I would say (jugding by number of posters and posts in this AAR), not only for the two of you

About the sub war, what I tend to see in my games is that the results are not that good, BUT it forces your opponent to use alot of ships to protect his TFs even within areas dominated by his bombers. This forces two things;
1. He will use more fuel to run his TFs around
2. Those escorts cannot be used to run quick bombardment runs or raider actions.

And then every now and then you will still sink some ships which is always a nice morale boost

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 1008

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 10:55:39 PM

GreyJoy

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Thx Terje!

Yes, hopefully we'll find some targets not so well protected...again: he cannot be everywhere!

Oct 3-4 1942

Results in the air are getting really weird. Numbers of victims are falling dramatically on both sides.

Today he sent 200 Tojos and 100 Oscars on sweep (all togheder in one single mission!)...then he sent some 50 zeros...and then 60 zero escorting 50 Nells on torpedo attack against my cruisers parked in Karachi harbour...

Result? 7 (SEVEN) planes shot down on my side and 56 on his!

...It seems that my guys are so frightned by the Tojos that they do tend to always evade the combat...while focusing on the zeros or on the oscars...really weird!

However the only result he achieved was a torp on the CL Danae...30 fld damage and she's now limping back to Aden for repairs... His Nells, on the other side, suffered badly with 22 planes shot down over my beloved capital!

Usual bombings at Multan...but no paras...weird!

12 japanese units reached Amristar (next to Lahore)...i bet at least 2000 AVs are there. Tomorrow we're paying a visit with my 4Es....

Supply levels in Karachi keeps getting slightly better every day. Now i stabilized the level between 550 and 560k...

Another full Indian Division arrived at Karachi today (another unit supposed to pop up at Madras!)...this brings my forces close to 9000 AVs

Our S-45 sunk another ship today...an AKL in Rabaul Harbour...

No sign of the KB nor of his BBs....

Pretty pissed off about my production system....we were producing 40 P-38Fs monthly...now the production has stopped and we're now producing ONLY 20 (TWENTY!) P-38Gs... What the hell does this mean? exactly the half???? Com'on...

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Post #: 1009

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 10:58:21 PM

Canoerebel

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I bet rader aint just chewing his fingernails to the quick, I'll bet he's even pulling out his armpit hairs.

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Post #: 1010

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/22/2011 11:32:28 PM

GreyJoy

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CR...i'd really hope it was like that...but Rader gets so many airframes each month...each week...despite the terrible losses he suffered it seems he always has HUNDREDS of modern planes to throw at me...and i'm again running low of good fighters....What a struggle

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Post #: 1011

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/23/2011 12:56:02 AM

GreyJoy

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Oct 5, 6 1942

The usual Tojo-Oscar 400 hundreds over Karachi. 8 kills on my side, 9 on his...seems that our pilots don't wanna fight each other anymore

Zeros seem to have been slowly retired from the front-line service...

Japan conquests Amristars and estabilish a base force with fighters there. We badly mauled one of his recon regiment with the 4Es but we won't reply the operation...the base is too far away...we'll wait for Multan

Supply situation remains stable. We're able to feed Karachi with nearly 10.000 supplies x week.

British pilot pool is damned empty...3 squadrons are now dedicating to A2A training in Karachi and Aden.

We landed a base force at Ndadi. The dot-base was empty. Already my cats are operating from there.

Lots of radio traffic from Truk...is the KB sorting out???

My CVs are approaching Tarawa, while we decided to take the chance and try a surprise-para-drop at Lunga...if it was empty...well that would be a good starting point for the future (i do remember what Bullkinkle suggested about the solomons...)

we're still waiting for our CVs to beging loading at brisbane the units devoted to the PM operation...

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Post #: 1012

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/23/2011 8:10:44 AM

GreyJoy

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Oct 7, 8 1942

Two mixed days of lights and shades for the allies.

In India we've experienced a bad turn. No doubts.
He sent 600 fighters on sweep missions. His zeros got chewed again but his Tojos really ruled the skies. Even my spits today suffered badly.
I think what is playing a huge difference now is "numbers". He simply has too much to throw at me....
However losses are 116 against 156...could be worse, i know...but could also be better. He lost only 10 Tojos in this process...something like the 5% of what he sent...really too little % to be happy.
Pools are again getting dry...especially the brit pools...26 pilots KIA and 50 WIA today...but that's something i really don't care about.

12000 jap men reached Lahore today...the base is defended by 180 static AVs...but his bombers will surely bomb back to stoneage my garrison before his units will attack.

Lights are in the pacific. I think something is moving finally.
As we approached Tarawa he foreseen again my move and we found the usual net of subs (nearly 20) waiting for us...i ordered to my CVs (4 of them) to stop and act as an ASW asset while my invasion TF move forward...i sent the biggest part of my sub army to create a picket line around Kwalajein...i want to know if and when the KB springs up...If i'll sniff about the sortie of the KB i'll move them all back.

The good news come from the Solomons. After the invasion of Ndai (or whatever

) ( north east of Lungaville, at the very limit of the Santa Cruz islands) we've risked and, even if the recon was nowhere precise enough, we paradropped the 3rd USMC para unit at Lunga. Lunga wasn't empty but was defended only by a veil of troops (100 men of a SNLF). Our brave paras pushed them back to Tessafaronga and estabilish a small perimeter at Guadalcanal.
Now we're ager to follow this little tactical success. I want to reinforce Lunga ASAP. We're so sending a fast transport with the 1st Marine raider unit to Tulagi, while the 1st Marine Division is moving from Lungaville to Lunga.
If i manage to get a strong foothold in the Solomons (now that he's fully committed in India) i think he should not be able to push me out easily...and, above all, this will force him to better defend his perimeter and so moving out from India some of his assets.
Specifically, if we manage to get Lunga operative as an airbase we'll threaten Rabaul and so he will be force to send some of his air units back from India.
We have no good naval asset in this area at the moment. We're using the CVE Long Island (with 18 wildcats) to cover the amphib landing with the 1st Marine Div and a small SCTF composed of the Missisipi BB and 3 CAs to cover the advance.
I know it isn't much...but we're counting on speed for this operation.

At Brisbane the PM invasion force is completely ready. We're committing also 2 US base forces in order to get immediately the PM airstrip operative as soon as we conquer it.

Generally speaking i find strange that Rader hasn't garrisoned the Solomons...probably he really didn't have anything else to be sent here...but considering how many units he has massed in the Bonins, Wake and Marcus...i'm pretty surprised not to find anything bigger than a naval guard unit there.

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Post #: 1013

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/23/2011 8:16:03 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

GreyJoy- looking forward to seeing how your new air commanders do.� Are you changing LCU commonders?� Just curious...

Well...the first results were awfull

. Let's give them some more time to get in touch with their men...it's surely not the best situation to be assigned to a new squadrons right in the middle of a life-or-death battle like that! :)

LCU commanders? Not yet...i'm trying to save some of my PPs now...it feels good to have them again

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Post #: 1014

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/23/2011 11:54:15 AM

ckammp

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re: P-38 production

P-38F production stops at the end of 9/42.
P-38G production starts in 10/42. There is one factory (at Los Angeles) which will produce 20 P-38Gs monthly. At the end of 5/43, P-38G production will stop.
P-38H production starts in 6/43. There is one factory, (again, at Los Angeles) which will produce 20 P-38Hs monthly. In addition, the P-38G factory will upgrade and begin producing 20 P-38Hs monthly, for a total of 40 P-38Hs monthly.
The situation will repeat in 12/43 with the P-38J - one factory producing 10 P-38J plus two upgraded factories for a total of 50 P-38Js monthly, and again in 6/44 with the P-38L - one factory producing 30 P-38L plus three upgraded factories for a total of 80 P-38Ls monthly.

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Post #: 1015

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/23/2011 12:40:03 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

re: P-38 production

P-38F production stops at the end of 9/42.
P-38G production starts in 10/42. There is one factory (at Los Angeles) which will produce 20 P-38Gs monthly. At the end of 5/43, P-38G production will stop.
P-38H production starts in 6/43. There is one factory, (again, at Los Angeles) which will produce 20 P-38Hs monthly. In addition, the P-38G factory will upgrade and begin producing 20 P-38Hs monthly, for a total of 40 P-38Hs monthly.
The situation will repeat in 12/43 with the P-38J - one factory producing 10 P-38J plus two upgraded factories for a total of 50 P-38Js monthly, and again in 6/44 with the P-38L - one factory producing 30 P-38L plus three upgraded factories for a total of 80 P-38Ls monthly.

Like when you read about the luftwaffe great last generation fighters....too few, too late

Thanks mate!

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Post #: 1016

RE: LOD IS CROSSED - 6/23/2011 2:31:40 PM

jeffk3510

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

GreyJoy- looking forward to seeing how your new air commanders do.� Are you changing LCU commonders?� Just curious...

Well...the first results were awfull . Let's give them some more time to get in touch with their men...it's surely not the best situation to be assigned to a new squadrons right in the middle of a life-or-death battle like that! :)

LCU commanders? Not yet...i'm trying to save some of my PPs now...it feels good to have them again

Your thought process makes me smile. Everytime.

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 1017

Bloody Skies - 6/23/2011 5:48:48 PM

GreyJoy

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Breaking News:

Oct 9,10 1942

On the 9th Rader decided to went all or nothing for Karachi. He sent 400 Fighters on sweep and 500 bombers escorted by 200 fighters, plus more 150 Netties escorted by 100 zeros...

Results were amazing...

5-1 in my favour. got 3 CLs hit by torps by they should be saved...limping back to Aden.

His bombers suffered badly...

More news later on...

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Post #: 1018

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/23/2011 5:55:27 PM

SoliInvictus202

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ouch... nice going!

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Post #: 1019

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/23/2011 8:56:54 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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Ok, here's some insight about this turn.

The aerial results over Karachi were really strange. What is imho important to be noticed is that again the Tojos were almost untouchable...even for my spits.

A Jap 2000 AV Army attacked Lahore today, obtaining just a 1-2...more days gained. We're still waiting for the para-drop at Multan...which will come very soon imho.

Jodpur is now a fully operative base with 9 AF lvl.

In the pacific we've moved back our CVs from Tarawa...too many subs there! Rader was clearly waiting for me...i've already lost the Saratoga for 80 days...don't wanna risk another CV!

The last Brit CV arrived today at Panama...soon she'll be operating along with her american cousins

While Tarawa is clearly a trap...at Lunga i think we obtain a complete surprise! The 1st Marine Div is unloading, followed by 2 seabees units and 2 base forces.
The Raiders got an empty Tulagi so strenghtening our new perimeter in the solomons. I'm ready to transfer some USMC air groups to Lunga from Lungaville in order to provide some CAP.

Now i'm ager to see how Rader will respond to this...will he send the KB? will he counterinvade?

Now it's time to prepare the PM invasion...hopefully we'll be able to get him off guard there while his attention will be sucked up by the Gilberts and the Solomons...

(in reply to SoliInvictus202)

Post #: 1020