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RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 3:15:54 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Saros

Puzzels .
I don't know how you manage to pick the most endearing way to misspell things every time.



P:U:Z:Z:L:E:S

Don't even know if the verb "to puzzle" is used correctly here.... i use it cause i remember it's used in Hamlet's monologue "....The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn, No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have..."
That bitch of an english teatcher i had at high school forced me to learn the whole soliloquy and to repeat only by memory



(in reply to Saros)
Post #: 2311
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 3:19:21 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Why do you refer to it as an aborted West Coast raid?  Did rader, via email, tell you that's what it was?

I've only been able to read highlights from your AAR over the past few weeks due to my schedule here, but I certainly don't think rader planned to raid the West Coast with his carriers.  Alaska, maybe.  Washington or California?  No.



...mmmmhhhh.... you may be right, however was a generic way of calling that (i think) aborted raid mission against my inner supply lines on the new world.
He clearly tried to penetrate in the only "gap" i have in my air search (between Midway and the Aleutinas) but when it was revealed he didn't lose any more time and steamed back west!
Probably he wanted to catch a full convoy moving from SF to PH, maybe full of troops and planes...don't know if he had any intel about it....however he didn't tell me anything about that nor i even named in our emails that particular happening...


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 2312
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 3:41:12 PM   
Graymane


Posts: 520
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Bellevue, NE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something puzzels me.
The recent return of the KB (after the aborted WC raid) to the South Pacific Theatre (at Truk right now) seems to have revitalized the whole japanese shippings in the area. Suddenly lots of convoys of transports, PBs and SCs, have popped up coming down from Truk, moving to Green island, Bouganville bases and shortland. What does this mean is out of my comprehension. Seems that Rader is willing to keep on moving in supplies and men...but considering that he has already built up everything down to Tulagi and filled every base with 10 units (most of those are base forces and eng plus some regimental size units), seems to me a kind of an "overkilling".
However as long as i force the KB to remain "visible" and tied to the fate of this theatre...i'm fine.


Why does that puzzle you? He has you held in Indian and held in the Solomons as long as KB is there. That is a win for him, and not fine for you long term -) The interesting thing is that you have two fronts that you can eventually fight on without carrier support, meaning you can open a 3rd front supported by your carriers. That will force him to tie KB to one place or waste time sailing between hot spots.

Are you planning on opening some kind of Java, Marianas or other campaign to apply more pressure?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2313
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 3:57:25 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Graymane


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something puzzels me.
The recent return of the KB (after the aborted WC raid) to the South Pacific Theatre (at Truk right now) seems to have revitalized the whole japanese shippings in the area. Suddenly lots of convoys of transports, PBs and SCs, have popped up coming down from Truk, moving to Green island, Bouganville bases and shortland. What does this mean is out of my comprehension. Seems that Rader is willing to keep on moving in supplies and men...but considering that he has already built up everything down to Tulagi and filled every base with 10 units (most of those are base forces and eng plus some regimental size units), seems to me a kind of an "overkilling".
However as long as i force the KB to remain "visible" and tied to the fate of this theatre...i'm fine.


Why does that puzzle you? He has you held in Indian and held in the Solomons as long as KB is there. That is a win for him, and not fine for you long term -) The interesting thing is that you have two fronts that you can eventually fight on without carrier support, meaning you can open a 3rd front supported by your carriers. That will force him to tie KB to one place or waste time sailing between hot spots.

Are you planning on opening some kind of Java, Marianas or other campaign to apply more pressure?


It puzzles me because he had clearly the chance of raiding deep down into my lines, only risking some planes, but knowing that i didn't have my CVs in that area (he can sees that i'm using the CV air groups over Ndeni and Lunga, while my CVs are safely resting in Melbourne)...he could have raid PH, SF or however try to catch a lonely convoy (and i had at least 3 of them running from SF to PH)...his turn-back has been a little bit strange to me...

However yes, i'm planning to open a second front but i want a front that won't need my CVs...the CVs will surely be partecipating in the "opening" of the front, but i'm not willing to risk them in a close-support role.
As said, a drive from Oz West Coast or along the Aleutinas to the Kuriles are my two best options, supported by a couple of minor operations i still have in my pocket (Tarawa and Mereauke on south New Guinea).
To do that, however, i want to be sure to be tiding down as much of his assets as possible on the actual 2 fronts, meaning that i first need to see how much can i force him to committ in India and in the Solomons.

In the meanwhile...troops and assets keep on massing at Aden, Perth and Ducth Harbour...

(in reply to Graymane)
Post #: 2314
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 4:25:03 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Why do you refer to it as an aborted West Coast raid?  Did rader, via email, tell you that's what it was?

I've only been able to read highlights from your AAR over the past few weeks due to my schedule here, but I certainly don't think rader planned to raid the West Coast with his carriers.  Alaska, maybe.  Washington or California?  No.


Yeah, far more likely a raid on shipping hoping to catch something juicy and (the real goal) set you panicking about LOCs. A raid on WC could mean a carrier zillions of miles from a friendly port after suffering a lucky hit.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 2315
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 6:43:33 PM   
Graymane


Posts: 520
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Bellevue, NE
Status: offline 		Doesn't an attack on the Kuriles trigger Kamis?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2316
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 6:45:19 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Not sure but I know it triggers a lot of restricted HQ reinforcements in Japan.

_____________________________


(in reply to Graymane)
Post #: 2317
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 6:59:52 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Kamikazes aren't eligible to appear until January 1, 1944 (I think that's the date).  They only appear then if the Allied player is within certain range of several ports, including (I think) Tokyo, Saigon, and Takao.

So, an invasion of the Kuriles before 1/1/44 would NOT trigger kamikazes until 1/1/44.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/14/2011 7:00:19 PM >

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 2318
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 7:12:43 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Jun 6, 7 1943

Another very quiet turn.

The KB has disappeared from my "radars" but he sent a HUGE number of ACMs against my PTs at Tulagi...losing all of them but 4 that managed to escape...what is he doing!?
However now i have 2 more divisions in the theatre and i'll start pushing harder.

It also seems that Rader is moving back most of his air assets both from the Solomons and from India...number of fighters and bombers spotted is decreasing every day...again he leaves me without any explanation for his moves... in India since the P-47s have appeared nothing has happened...

He also keeps on trying to extract his 5 divisions at Tulagi...and his Mavis-Ls keep on getting intercepted....strange, very very strange

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tulagi (114,137)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2665 troops, 219 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 1268

Defending force 56492 troops, 426 guns, 188 vehicles, Assault Value = 1868

Japanese ground losses:
83 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Assaulting units:
148th Infantry Regiment
145th Infantry Regiment
3rd Marine Division
24th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
1st Marine Raider Battalion
754th Tank Battalion
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
23rd Marine Regiment
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
353rd Construction Regiment
205th Field Artillery Battalion
57th Coastal Artillery Regiment
I US Corps
102nd USN Base Force
181st Field Artillery Regiment
7th Marine Defense Battalion
179th USAAF Base Force
16th USN Naval Construction Battalion
804th Engineer Aviation Battalion
139th USA Base Force
97th Field Artillery Battalion
96th Coast AA Regiment
3rd USN Naval Construction Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
21st USN Naval Construction Battalion
369th Coast AA Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
34th Aviation Base Force
821st Engineer Aviation Battalion
177th Construction Regiment
220th USN Base Force /2

Defending units:
4th Division
38th Division
36th Infantry Regiment
64th Infantry Brigade
90th Infantry Regiment
52nd Infantry Brigade
71st Infantry Brigade
5th Division
Ichiki Det.
2nd Area Army


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 07, 43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Choun Maru #8, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PT-63
PT-128
PT-188

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Bisan Maru, Shell hits 21, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-222
PT-232
PT-239




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Hanata Maru #6, Shell hits 1, heavy fires

Allied Ships
PT-222
PT-232
PT-239



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Noshiro Maru #2, Shell hits 18, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-222
PT-232
PT-239




(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 2319
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 9:03:27 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline 		just keep in mind that, just because some transports show as "intercepted" - doesn't mean that they don't carry troops back with them....

in one of my games the enemy intercepted (and I counted) more planes than I actually sent - and I still got troops in the place I wanted... (I got the "intercept" message 10 or so times and actually had just 7 Catalinas moving troops in)

but I doubt that'll make much of a difference!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2320
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 10:34:13 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		I know. today for example we "intercepted" them but none of them resulted shot down. I read it just as "the flight was intercepted" but that doesn't mean we halted the flight mission.
However the simple fact that he is finally evacuating after 5 long months means he has abbandoned the idea of taking Tulagi once for good.
We can now start thinking about an advance.
We're planning to land at Russell Island in the next 2 months. 22k men are present there. Will be tough...will be bloody...will be glorious. Will be our first landing experience.


(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 2321
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 10:46:25 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Why not hit a less glorious target and cut those 22K troops off just like the forces at Tulagi? I know Rader has built up the whole chain, but are you selecting the easiest target with the biggest strategic payoff?

_____________________________


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2322
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 10:51:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		With rare exceptions, it is never a good idea to hit the enemy where he is dug in and prepared in big numbers.  Usually (not always), there are better and less expensive options.

Now, you might make an solid argument that hitting Russell is one of the rare exceptions, but unless you can make that argument convincingly, you're making a mistake.

P.S.  Sorry for the negative tone - it's not intended that way.  You have done a remarkable job fighting off a much more experienced opponent.  I think everyone is impressed with your performance.  I know I am.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 2323
RE: Fighting - 9/14/2011 11:17:56 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

With rare exceptions, it is never a good idea to hit the enemy where he is dug in and prepared in big numbers.  Usually (not always), there are better and less expensive options.

Now, you might make an solid argument that hitting Russell is one of the rare exceptions, but unless you can make that argument convincingly, you're making a mistake.

P.S.  Sorry for the negative tone - it's not intended that way.  You have done a remarkable job fighting off a much more experienced opponent.  I think everyone is impressed with your performance.  I know I am.


normally I would totally agree with you here - but didn't Greyjoy already look at all the "other" options - having considered his current deployment?

from what I have read he isn't ready to pull anything off quickly in India or the DEI... - and as rader's flanks are apparently well defended (Marshalls, Marianas and Bonins)

am I missing anything here? - but from what I see here there aren't all that many options for an offensive operations - furthermore Greyjoy seems to have focused a substantial part of his offensive capability in the SWPAC sector...(and with my recent Hokkaido ****-up I know what it takes to reposition an entire army...)

I know that all this doesn't change the fact that attacking an enemy where he expects you to is never a good idea....unless your name is Sir Douglas Haig and you always attack where the enemy is strongest...

< Message edited by SoliInvictus202 -- 9/14/2011 11:39:19 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 2324
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 12:15:30 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		8, 9 June 1943

Rader has really moved back all his planes from the "line" in the Solomons. The KB is moving down to Rabaul but up to the big jap HUB is SWPAC (rabaul) there are now only two bases that hold enough planes (but no bombers!) - Shortland and Buka.
That's really really strange...what is he doing!?

In India another turn of "peace"....

At Tulagi I slaughtered another bunch of ACMs...i sent in the PG Charleston and PC Taney...with their big guns they killed those little support ships like butterflies...


Then he sent to Tulagi a number of Mavis and Emilies to pick up his troops...55 (no jokes, fifty five!!!!)of those big guys have been shot up by my CAP that arrived in strenght on the place (nearly 200 allied fighters guarding different altitudes...)...


Now, for what concerns Russell.... i should have explained better the Solomons situation....

Rader has put AT LEAST 20k men in every single base south of Rabaul.
Russell has 22 LCUs
Thousands Ships Bay 21
Auki 19
Munda and Rekata Bay 20
Shortland 30

...and so on....

wherever option i chose i'll find big and strong opposition...so imho is better to chose a target close enough and with a decent facilities (port and AF) so that i can easily set up and prepare for another jump.

It won't be easy nor clean but i think i can manage to starve and bomb the island long enough to smooth it...exactly what he has not done with Tulagi.
I think i'll need at least 2000 AV for this operation. I have that strenght at hand. I just need to prepare the place for my guys...but FIRST i have to understand his plans for this region....which are very "foggy" to me at the moment




Attachment (1)

(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 2325
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 12:16:51 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		And i don't wanna do John Wayne...i won't invade every single island. The plan is to invade Russell and avoid Thousands and Auki...then go for Rekata Bay and Avoid Munda and Vella la Vella...etc etc

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2326
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 1:07:47 AM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Since he seems to be flooding the likely avenue of advances with troops, this means he's got to be robbing Peter to pay Paul - you telegraph where you are moving & he's throwing everything in your face to scare you.

If you could find an area that he isn't expecting you to hit, I believe you'd be able to find some fairly weak areas to take advantage of.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2327
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 2:46:17 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		What about a left hook through Tagula, Rossel, Woodlark, Milne Bay etc. (Even a right hook Ocean, Nauru, Ponape, a bit more risky)
The bases look empty, might be some cheap wins

Use PT's (as you have) to raid his bases in the Solomons and make resupply or evacuation risky for him

Cut him off (by air interdiction) from Rabaul, how many of those 100,000 troops will he get out?

IMHO, if you go head to head you might make Bougainville by the end of the year and have got little to show except attrition (who mentioned Haig??)

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 2328
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 3:35:22 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		The left hook is appealing if you can take the islands in question, but between KB and IJN LBA it is a long leap.

The right hook sounds interesting, and I notice that Ontong Java is open (although I can't remember the SPS of that base, may not be worth it).

_____________________________


(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 2329
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 4:51:44 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I know. today for example we "intercepted" them but none of them resulted shot down. I read it just as "the flight was intercepted" but that doesn't mean we halted the flight mission.
However the simple fact that he is finally evacuating after 5 long months means he has abbandoned the idea of taking Tulagi once for good.
We can now start thinking about an advance.
We're planning to land at Russell Island in the next 2 months. 22k men are present there. Will be tough...will be bloody...will be glorious. Will be our first landing experience.





Intercepted means that they are turned back. He might lose one or two as well. However, if your LRCAP is small then most of the transport will complete their mission and supply either gets in or troops out. If you want to really nail him then put about 100 fighters over the base on LRCAP for a turn. You will shoot some transport down then and if he is making a major effort with a mass of transports you might shoot a heck of a lot down.

Oop..sorry, I see you did just that. He probably won't try it much more.




< Message edited by crsutton -- 9/15/2011 4:55:05 AM >

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2330
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 4:52:21 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		i've got like, 0 EXP to call upon, but i wonder if the island-hopping strategy can work in AE?

since there's no intel on the supply-level of bypassed base-hexes, they're always a potential threat - and the combat power one devotes to suppressing that threat is subtracted from the forces needed at the point of attack.

oh well, i guess that's where the EXP comes into play.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 2331
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 4:59:38 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

i've got like, 0 EXP to call upon, but i wonder if the island-hopping strategy can work in AE?

since there's no intel on the supply-level of bypassed base-hexes, they're always a potential threat - and the combat power one devotes to suppressing that threat is subtracted from the forces needed at the point of attack.

oh well, i guess that's where the EXP comes into play.



It works just fine, and you have to do it just like in the real deal. It is impossible to take all the big defended bases. I have seen some Japanese players cheese a bit by flying supply or sending supply subs to an isolated rear base and then basing a kamikaze unit there to pounce on you unprotected rear shipping lanes but it is more of a nuisance than anything else. Sooner or later the isolated bases run out of supply and it is hard for the Japanese player to get more than a trickle to them.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 2332
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 5:26:02 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
It works just fine, and you have to do it just like in the real deal.

hear that, crsutton. so i'd guess it's less about assembling *overwhelming force*, & more about 'necessary assets', such as adequate Recon & NavSearch. it's about time i moved up from playing the AI into the real deal.

<please excuse the threadjack>

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 2333
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 8:01:38 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Ok guys, now everything is clear. Rader was getting ready for a MASSIVE "Dunkirk" operation to rescue his army stuck at Tulagi.

Suddenly, on June 10th 1943, Russell, Thousands and Auki were swimming in fighter planes. My recon counted nearly 1100 fighters between these 3 bases.
During the night of the 9/10th 2 japanese SCTFs, composed each by 5 DDs swept Tulagi in order to deal with my PTs.
PG Charleston and PC Taney (poor lonely bastards) encountered a sudden death and weren't even able to shoot a single bullet. Same for DMS Hopkins, while my PTs did their best, sinking 2 japanese destroyers in a serie of 15 naval encounters!...i lost 13 PTs in the process....
Then he came with a sumber of "E" class and SCs...but instead of subs they found my DMSs and got mauled.

Finally arrived a SCTF of mine, composed of 7 old class DDs....they were supposed to deal with his ACMs so they weren't the best...we exchanged blows with the japanese DDs but 2 of my DDs ate a torp and sunk immediately, while 2 others were seriously damaged. However we left burning and sinking at least 2 more enemies...

So the naval battles ended with a little jap victory, with 2 allied DD sunk, 1 big PC and 1 big PG plus the PTs, in exchange of 2 jap DDs and 2 more badly damaged...


Then it arrived the fast transport TFs to pick up his troops...

Pre-Invasion action off Tulagi (114,137) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

1295 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
     CL Abukuma
     APD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 5
     APD Asagao
     APD Mikazuki, Shell hits 1,  on fire
     APD Nagatsuki, Shell hits 3,  on fire
     APD Asakaze, Shell hits 2
     PB Kogane Maru, Shell hits 1
     PB Konsan Maru
     PB Kenan Maru
     PB Kensin Maru
     PB Kasyu Maru
     PB Ikuta Maru
     PB Hirota Maru
     PB Hokutai Maru
     PB Hakkaisan Maru
     PB Akagane Maru
     APD Oite

Japanese ground losses:
     3013 casualties reported
        Squads: 94 destroyed, 92 disabled
        Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 8 disabled
        Engineers: 14 destroyed, 23 disabled
     Vehicles lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
     7 casualties reported
        Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
        Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


nvasion Support action off Tulagi (114,137) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

721 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
     CL Abukuma, Shell hits 2
     APD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 15,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
     APD Asagao
     APD Harukaze
     APD Asakaze
     APD Nagatsuki, Shell hits 1
     PB Konsan Maru
     PB Kenan Maru
     PB Kogane Maru
     PB Kensin Maru
     PB Kasyu Maru
     PB Ikuta Maru
     PB Hirota Maru
     PB Hokutai Maru
     PB Hakkaisan Maru
     PB Akagane Maru

Japanese ground losses:
     587 casualties reported
        Squads: 14 destroyed, 17 disabled
        Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 15 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
     Guns lost 82 (28 destroyed, 54 disabled)
     Vehicles lost 42 (13 destroyed, 29 disabled)


As you can see our costal guns didn't do the wonderfull job of the last time and, despite the number of guns firing, the Japs managed to get back their ships more or less in good shape.
Mines weren't a big factor cause his midjet subs got them all....(it seems that nearly 18 SSX subs struck mines at Tulagi today...)
Only a couple of PB and APDs were sunk by mines...

However, after the 2nd day of dunkirking our land troops bombed his divisions at Tulagi and discovered that this mission managed to pick up something like 250 AVs worth of troops...in one single night!...but, using the numbers of troop indicated in the combat report (i know there's FOW) it also seems that "only" 4/5000 men left the beaches...

Among those 4/5k men something like 1000 were for sure destroyed during the loading operations by my CD guns...so, in the end, most of his units are still present.

However i do not understimate the fact that when he landed there (in Jan 43) he had nearly 80,000 men for more than 2100 AVs and now, after 6 months, only 50,000 japanese are still present on the beaches...so in a way or in another one he managed to save something like 10/15,000 men (i estimate that at least 15k men died during these months).


The other important news is that a GREAT surface group is now stationing at Thousands Ships bay, composed of the following ships:


Japanese Ships
     BB Kirishima
     BB Nagato
     BB Mutsu
     BB Fuso
     BB Yamashiro
     CA Takao
     CA Atago
     CA Maya
     CA Chokai
     CA Myoko
     CA Mikuma
     CA Suzuya
     CA Kumano
     CA Aoba
     CL Nagara
     DD Shimakaze
     DD Kazegumo
     DD Tamanami
     DD Natsushio
     DD Yukikaze
     DD Isokaze
     DD Arashi



We have to decide what to do now...he has an incredible number of planes and i'm sure the KB is lingering in the shades somewhere... he has 5 battleships supported by CAs and CLs...and he's trying to save his precious experienced army.... should i committ or should i use only minimal assets in order to make him pay a little but withour risking anything important?...

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 2334
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 8:04:55 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Amazing how Tulagi in this game looks alike Guadalcanal in RL....

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2335
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 8:12:11 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		The question is....what is the best and safest way to fight against a SCTF like that? 5 BBs, 8 CAs, 1 CL and 7 DDs...??

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2336
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 8:50:42 AM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The question is....what is the best and safest way to fight against a SCTF like that? 5 BBs, 8 CAs, 1 CL and 7 DDs...??


Several smaller, more efficient BB TF's is my guess. 2 BB + 6 DD for example, preceded by PT's

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2337
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 8:58:42 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The question is....what is the best and safest way to fight against a SCTF like that? 5 BBs, 8 CAs, 1 CL and 7 DDs...??

A Sqn of F111's

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2338
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 9:25:33 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The question is....what is the best and safest way to fight against a SCTF like that? 5 BBs, 8 CAs, 1 CL and 7 DDs...??


Several smaller, more efficient BB TF's is my guess. 2 BB + 6 DD for example, preceded by PT's


Ok, and what about my modern CLs (Brooklin and Cleveland Class)? Shouldn't i committ them?

Here are the forces at my disposal (consider the 2 days turn and consider also the KB which is east of Rabaul....):

For the first night i can arrive at Tulagi with the following forces:

1 SCTF composed of 8 Mahan Class DDs
1 SCTF composed of 6 Farragut Class DDs

For the first day i can have at Tulagi teh following forces:

C) 1 SCTF composed of 2 CAs (1 New Orleans and 1 Whichita Class CA), 3 CLs (2 Omaha Class CLs and 1 Brooklin Class CL) and 7 Fletcher Class DDs
D) 1 SCTF composed of 2 CAs (Australia and Hawkins), 4 Cleveland Class CLs and 7 Fletcher Class DDs

E) 1 SCTF composed of 2 BBs (Indiana and Massachusset Class BBs), 3 CAs (Pensacola and New Orleans Class) and 7 various DDs
F) 1 SCTF composed of 2 BBs (both North Carolina Class BBs) 3 CAs (Northampton Class CAs) and 7 different DDs

Please consider that i can change the composition only mixing C with D and E with F, cause these "couples" are based in different locations.

I find these TFs pretty balanced, with the DDs storming the base at night, so engaging what he has and possibly making him expending ammos, followed during the day by the bulk of my naval forces...


It's also possible that moving his BBs to Thousands Ships Bay is a trap. His KB is very close now and could come in without much of a problem.
He has enough LBA fighters to sweep my CAP to oblivion and then let the KB demolish my surface forces... I do see a big risk here...Rader is smart and the trap could easily take place.

Imagine this scenario.
I move in my surface assets to Tulagi or Lunga...whatever....
He moves back his bait-BBs...when the day comes he starts to sweep with 1000 fighters Tulagi, Lunga and Tassafaronga. I have 500 fighters there...i could easily tangle with them....but my fighters will be exausted, with no ammo and no operational points left when the "air2sea" phase will take on.... then the KB will arrive, along with Betties...positioning in the right place to strike TLT with ease....my ships will be out of CAP and an easy prey for the enemy's torpedo bombers... an easy victory for Japan...a terrible defeat for the Allies....

(in reply to String)
Post #: 2339
RE: Fighting - 9/15/2011 9:43:09 AM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		I  THINK, and this just my opinion, that you aim for as many TF's as possible

You have a total of 4 BB's, 10 CA, 5 good CL's and 2 crappy ones and a grand total of 28 DD's. The DD's dictate the amount of TF's you can create, and right now, with 28, the number seems to be at 5. This means 3 TF's with 6 DD's and 2 TF's with 5 DD's. I'd suggest the following:

BBTF1: 2 Old BB's + 2 Omaha CL's (they have torps) + 6 DD
BBTF2: 2 new BB's + CA Australia and CA Hawkins (both have torps again) + 6 DD

CTF1: 2x CA + 2x CL + 5DD
CTF2: 2x CA + 2x CL + 5 DD
CTF3: 2x CA (one of the Wichita) + CL + 6DD (fletchers)



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