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RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles

 
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RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 1:48:24 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aditia

In my 43-45 PBEM most soviet breakthroughs happen because of the +1 modifier. Without it the soviets would have an impossible task trying to breach fortified river lines.


That is assuming that I have divisions with reasonable strength available to guard a river line.

Though admittedly, with the patch changes and the increased armaments pool, the +1 modifier
might be more relevant in newly started 43-45 games. But I doubt that the Soviets need
the extra +1 odds modifier to breach the lines in my game .

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 4/29/2011 1:51:16 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 211
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 2:12:29 PM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Well, the last soviet attack you posted relied on the +1 modifier.

Overkill is exactly what it is.

Yes, the majority of Soviet attacks will be more than 1-1, but there will be some crucial moments if you ever try to create another pocket again in the next two years of fighting, where there'll be a hex you absolutely have to hold. But even sticking 3 x 10 CV panzers in that hex will not be enough, because its a relative cinch for the Soviets to muster 30CV on ANY hex on the map. If that was turned to 60CV, however, things would look a little different. At least the chance for pocketting counter attack would be there in 43-45.

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 212
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 3:09:32 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
quote:



In my 43-45 PBEM most soviet breakthroughs happen because of the +1 modifier. Without it the soviets would have an impossible task trying to breach fortified river lines.


For some reason there is a big difference between the 42 and 43 campaigns - I had the same experience as Fiva, where the German army nears a state of collapse and the vast majority of Soviet attacks get extremely good odds. Once you are forced out of the Level 4 fort line that was in place at the beginning of the scenario, it's all downhill as your collection of 1=1 units flee.

I guess its also possible that the 42 campaign gives the Soviets more time to build an "ideal" army such that it is much more capable of breaking lines than the Soviet army in the same period of the 43 game (plus everything is activated by then, for the most part)

Devs have said that there were some major armaments issues with the scenario that have been fixed and should allow the Germans to maintain the strength in their lines better. I had 900k men in the pool while my army dropped over the course of the summer from 3.5M to 2.5M or less (similar to what Fiva is seeing).

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 213
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 4:20:55 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Also, I know the devs are aware of the issue of unbalanced late war combat (or at least, the inability of the Germans to launch effective counterattacks regardless of strength of forces)...hopefully the +1 odds modifier might come up as one path to resolving this to an extent.

(in reply to squatter)
Post #: 214
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 5:16:40 PM   
Aditia

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
Status: offline 		late war combat should be tough for the germans. How is attacking supposed to yield bigger losses for the defending russians? 0_o

Attacking is inherently costly because you expose your troops. My main gripe with the v1.03 combat system is that russians do not suffer enough casualties when attacking forts (or the germans suffer too much when forced to retreat). I suspect this has a lot to do with the support unit bug, but still, german infantry in bunkers should be able to exact a bunch of heavy losses on assaulting russian infantry and not get annihilated when retreating. Retreat attrition should be based on competency of artillery, airforce and mechanized forces, but from the numbers I see the effect is roughly equal for both sides. Was Soviet organization of different arms really that effective?

Anyway, the late war combat is a different issue from what 42-45 axis players are experiencing, namely a complete collapse caused by vagueries in the production system.

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 215
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 6:23:04 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Broadly speaking I agree (and I also agree that the collapse is a separate issue from the counterattacking issue) - but a successful attack by massed panzer against an infantry corps not dug in should not be virtually guaranteed to result in a 1:1 loss ratio, as the overrunning of enemy positions, artillery units and casualties along the retreat should create a ton of casualties for the defender. As things work now, you are insane to ever attack infantry with your panzers in late war, which doesn't seem quite right.

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 216
Turn 59 overview - 4/29/2011 10:49:00 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		BEGIN TURN 59
8/7/1943
OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AXIS OOB
Men: 2.254.503
Guns: 17.412
AFV: 3.473
Air: 1.840

SOVIET OOB
Men: 6.253.754
Guns: 104.496
AFV: 9.319
Air: 14.761

AXIS LOSSES
Men: 2.474.157
Guns: 39.523
AFV: 8.001
Air: 5.522

SOVIET LOSSES
Men: 6.162.203
Guns: 111.577
AFV: 25.295
Air: 32.928

SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
06 held
09 retreated
35 AF bombed

PRODUCTION
Manpower pool: 551.577
Armaments pool: 0
Rifle Squads: Rdy 18.410/Dam 577

EVENT LOG
Refit/replacements segment: 79.040 men were added to Germany's front line units
Unready units: 56 German units unready

NOTABLE EVENTS
Most our troops were able to pull back in good order, as can be seen by the low number of attacks.

However, the presence of the later identified Soviet 1st Tank Army and 5th Guards Tank Army around
Kursk meant that the organized retreat of Army Group A had to be delayed, or else risk getting
overrun on open ground by the mass concentration of Soviet tanks.

In order to rectify this, a plan was proposed. The first line of defence was intentionally
weakened, in order to lure the 2 Soviet tank armies into action prematurely. Once the soviets
took the bait, 2 German Panzer Corps would spring into action and force the Soviets into a tank
battle, which at this stage of the war can still be won with good odds.

Unfortunately, we underestimated the Soviet and overestimated our own strength......




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 4/29/2011 11:37:38 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 217
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/29/2011 11:03:04 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aditia

late war combat should be tough for the germans. How is attacking supposed to yield bigger losses for the defending russians? 0_o

Attacking is inherently costly because you expose your troops. My main gripe with the v1.03 combat system is that russians do not suffer enough casualties when attacking forts (or the germans suffer too much when forced to retreat). I suspect this has a lot to do with the support unit bug, but still, german infantry in bunkers should be able to exact a bunch of heavy losses on assaulting russian infantry and not get annihilated when retreating. Retreat attrition should be based on competency of artillery, airforce and mechanized forces, but from the numbers I see the effect is roughly equal for both sides. Was Soviet organization of different arms really that effective?

Anyway, the late war combat is a different issue from what 42-45 axis players are experiencing, namely a complete collapse caused by vagueries in the production system.


As I understand it from BigAnorak, the issue has to do with the Russians getting too much more than the Germans getting too little. The Russians have too many men too quickly and cause too many casualties too quickly. This is the problem.

But I could be wrong.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 218
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/30/2011 12:35:57 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Mynok - my sense of that - at least from my game - was that the Soviets may or may not get too much too fast (probably they do) but that the Germans seem unable, at least pre-1.04, to even put the men that they have into the line at any kind of meaningful rate.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 219
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/30/2011 12:47:23 AM   
Aditia

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

As I understand it from BigAnorak, the issue has to do with the Russians getting too much more than the Germans getting too little. The Russians have too many men too quickly and cause too many casualties too quickly. This is the problem.

But I could be wrong.


BigA's strategy revolved around creating a backup front behind the main front. IMO this strategy is inherently flawed as it facilitates the Soviet player to execute a lot of attacks, which is basically all he wants: a big pile of bodies.

But let's stop hijacking this thread and discuss 43-45 in your thread or mine


(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 220
RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles - 4/30/2011 3:29:49 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Agreed. I'll have an update to mine (long overdue) tomorrow night. Right now, I can't run fast enough.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 221
End of turn 59 Overview - 5/1/2011 11:50:13 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		NOTABLE EVENTS

III Panzer Corps and LVII Panzer Corps, composed out of 6 Panzer divisions and 2 Panzer
Grenadier divisions, were tasked to break out their entrapped comrades.

Their opponent consisted out of the outer ring, in the form of 1st Tank army, and the inner
ring, formed by 5th Guards Tank army.

The attack went well, and 1st Tank Army was brushed away with relative ease. 5th Guards
Tank Army proved to be a more resilient opponent, but even they could not withstand the
determined assault of the German attackers.

Attack on the inner ring


In the end, a 20 miles gap was opened, allowing the entrapped Germans divisions to fight
another day.

End of turn: Anticipating a renewed assault next turn, the bulk of
Germany's panzer forces has been redeployed in this sector.




< Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/1/2011 11:51:11 AM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 222
Turn 60 Overview - 5/1/2011 12:04:35 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		BEGIN TURN 60
8/14/1943
OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AXIS OOB
Men: 2.244.244
Guns: 17.574
AFV: 3.367
Air: 1.690

SOVIET OOB
Men: 6.239.665
Guns: 104.683
AFV: 9.247
Air: 15.065

AXIS LOSSES
Men: 2.494.771
Guns: 39.926
AFV: 8.177
Air: 5.873

SOVIET LOSSES
Men: 6.184.550
Guns: 112.432
AFV: 25.833
Air: 33.402

SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
04 held
12 retreated
21 AF bombed

PRODUCTION
Manpower pool: 538.653
Armaments pool: 0
Rifle Squads: Rdy 17.981/Dam 480

EVENT LOG
Refit/replacements segment: 74.120 men were added to Germany's front line units
Unready units: 43 German units unready

NOTABLE EVENTS
  • The Soviets decide to spare their tank forces for another day, and withdraw their tank armies around Kursk.

  • Kerch has been under repeated attacks this summer. It has held until now, but the garrison is at the verge of breaking. Unfortunately, no reinforcements can be spared.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    FRONTLINE OVERVIEW




    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/1/2011 1:03:32 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 223
    Turn 61 Overview - 5/2/2011 4:41:53 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 61
    8/21/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.245.739
    Guns: 18.003
    AFV: 3.433
    Air: 1.689

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.323.790
    Guns: 106.547
    AFV: 9.312
    Air: 15.440

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.508.362
    Guns: 40.272
    AFV: 8.293
    Air: 6.040

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.199.229
    Guns: 112.976
    AFV: 26.185
    Air: 33.946

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    08 held
    12 retreated
    20 AF bombed

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 534.298
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 17.649/Dam 410

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 56.756 men were added to Germany's front line units
    Unready units: 50 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
    The battle for the Valdai Hills has begun. Intending to make the Soviets pay dearly for
    the capture of these hills, XXXXVII PzCrps, composed of 6th, 7th Pz Div and Wiking SS,
    Totenkoph SS PzGren Div have been transferred to this sector.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    END OF TURN 61

    NOTABLE EVENTS
    All sectors were able to retreat successfully, with no divisions cut off.
    An overview of the southern sector:



    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/4/2011 7:09:43 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    Post #: 224
    Turn 62 Overview - 5/3/2011 7:42:44 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 62
    8/28/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.265.527
    Guns: 17.863
    AFV: 3.540
    Air: 1.727

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.371.409
    Guns: 107.480
    AFV: 9.188
    Air: 15.588

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.532.342
    Guns: 40.878
    AFV: 8.427
    Air: 6.141

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.232.463
    Guns: 114.006
    AFV: 26.696
    Air: 34.477

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    13 held
    15 retreated
    22 AF bombed

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 489.856
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 18.918/Dam 607

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 123.683 men were added to Germany's front line units
    Unready units: 30 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • Elements of 1st Tank Army and 5th Guards Tank army have been detected massing near the Valdai Hills.



  • The Soviet 51st Army has finally forced back VII Rum. Corps. Kerch has fallen.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    END OF TURN 61

    NOTABLE EVENTS
    XXXXVII PzCrps has launched an spoiling attack on 1st Tank Army and 5th Guards Tank Army,
    managing to cut off 2 tank corps.



    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/4/2011 7:04:39 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 225
    Turn 63 Overview - 5/4/2011 7:06:52 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 63
    9/4/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.288.960
    Guns: 17.965
    AFV: 3.596
    Air: 1.767

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.395.477
    Guns: 108.261
    AFV: 9.103
    Air: 15.855

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.557.547
    Guns: 41.589
    AFV: 8.593
    Air: 6.278

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.270.807
    Guns: 115.058
    AFV: 27.115
    Air: 34.976

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    20 held
    18 retreated
    20 AF bombed

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 463.037
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 19.778/Dam 517

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 87.762 men were added to Germany's front line units
    Unready units: 25 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • Around the Valdai Hills, the main body of 5th Guards Tank Army arrives and counter attacks XXXXVII PzCrps, managing to force the Germans back and relieve their entrapped comrades.




  • Down south in the Crimea, VII Rum Corps keeps retreating before the Soviet 51st Army. Elements of 3rd Rum. Army are en route to delay the Soviets as long as possible, but a evacuation of the peninsula is inevitable.


    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/4/2011 7:08:46 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 226
    The Soviet Air campaign of 43 - 5/4/2011 8:22:05 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		The summer of 1943 saw the rise of the Red Air Force, when the Soviets started systemically
    bombing the airfields of the Germans.

    The first attack caught the Germans by complete surprise, who until then had at least always
    enjoyed local air superiority. The large numbers of Soviet bombers during these first
    attacks, complete overwhelmed the air defences of the Germans, and in many cases the Soviets
    managed to damage considerable numbers Luftwaffe bombers on the ground.

    The only defence against the onslaught of the Soviet bombers and their escorts lay in
    relocating the airfields as far away from the front as possible, ensuring that the Soviet
    bombers had to fly the last part of their run unescorted. This however meant that
    there was less air cover for the front line troops, allowing the Soviet ground attack
    aircraft to support any Soviet push relatively unhindered.


    The Soviet bombing campaign held on for almost 2 months, with a registered number of around
    400 AF bombing attacks. The end results were disastrous for the Germans. Though the German
    war machine managed to produce enough aircrafts to maintain a steady number of
    bombers for the Eastern Front, the situation was much more serious when it came to the
    number of fighters.

    Coupled with some recalls because of the intensifying allied bombing campaign back home,
    the number of German fighters have dwindled to about an average of 15-30 planes per Army
    Group due to the constant bombing raids. With no considerable reinforcements in the
    foreseeable future to boost these numbers, this means that the Red airforce has finally
    managed to gain decisive air superiority over the Eastern Front.




    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/4/2011 8:34:12 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    Post #: 227
    RE: The Soviet Air campaign of 43 - 5/4/2011 8:58:45 PM   
    Kronolog

     

    Posts: 139
    Joined: 3/23/2011
    From: Sweden
    Status: offline     		Wow, only 15-30 fighters per AG? That seems quite harsh for late -43.

    (in reply to fiva55)
    Post #: 228
    RE: The Soviet Air campaign of 43 - 5/4/2011 9:44:37 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kronolog

    Wow, only 15-30 fighters per AG? That seems quite harsh for late -43.


    Ah well, I might be exaggerating a bit . With some micromanaging and 2 turns without AF bombing attacks,
    I have a total of 566 Ready F/FB/NF. That's 100+ planes per AG. The Soviets still massively outnumber me though,
    and their interdiction attacks are a pain in the ass, so it wasn't completely fiction .

    Though at the height of my opponent's bombing campaign, I believe at one point I did have a few Luftflottes with almost no fighters. That's when I manually started to redistribute squadrons and sending very damaged one to the national reserve. I recommend anyone interested in preserving their airforce to do the same and not just to rely on the AI.

    Edit: I should have posted a warning: The story parts of this AAR are often dramatized. For hard facts I recommend the OKH Received Reports Summaries.

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/4/2011 9:54:35 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to Kronolog)
    Post #: 229
    Turn 64 overview - 5/5/2011 12:30:26 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 64
    9/11/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.300.096
    Guns: 18.238
    AFV: 3.671
    Air: 1.836

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.567.766
    Guns: 109.708
    AFV: 9.008
    Air: 16.154

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.584.487
    Guns: 42.447
    AFV: 8.784
    Air: 6.344

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.318.531
    Guns: 116.153
    AFV: 27.662
    Air: 35.413

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    13 held
    11 retreated

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 456.308
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 20.429/Dam 518

    EVENT LOG
    Unready units: 18 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • The Soviets have stopped their AF bombing campaign.

  • The Valdai hill defence has been reinforced by III panzer korps, bringing the panzer strenght in this sector to 5 panzer divisions and 3 panzergrenadier divisions.

  • The Romanians keep retreating in the Crimea, it wont be long until the Soviets have control over the entire peninsula.





    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/5/2011 12:39:07 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 230
    RE: Turn 64 overview - 5/5/2011 3:23:05 PM   
    fcam1387

     

    Posts: 397
    Joined: 5/17/2006
    Status: offline     		How on earth can you maintain a front that wide with a mere 2.3 million men? You must be near collapse at this stage. Facing over 6.3 million Soviets basically means he basically can hurl you all the way to Berlin with little effort.

    Why do you reckon Axis casualties have been so high? Is it a game issue or have you used them too aggressively?

    (in reply to fiva55)
    Post #: 231
    RE: Turn 64 overview - 5/5/2011 6:21:12 PM   
    Q-Ball


    Posts: 7336
    Joined: 6/25/2002
    From: Chicago, Illinois
    Status: offline     		That is a critically low number of Germans, I am surprised your CVs are showing as high as they are, though there are alot of low numbers still. Manpower appears critical.

    Maybe fiva55 is disbanding FBDs and airunits to stretch the manpower into more Rifles, but that's a button you can push only so many times

    _____________________________


    (in reply to fcam1387)
    Post #: 232
    RE: Turn 64 overview - 5/5/2011 8:50:34 PM   
    hfarrish

     

    Posts: 734
    Joined: 1/3/2011
    Status: offline     		My experience in the same scenario was that my army had collapsed by this point, with the exception of the panzers, who stayed strong through me keeping them in the rear and using them only to attack exposed tank corps.

    Not sure the issue is German losses being too high, but Soviet losses being too low (particularly in successful counterattacks, but also in successful attacks - anectdotally my impression is that the Soviets suffered very heavily even in successful operations, such as the Seelow Heights. Game mechanics don't really recreate this - a successful Soviet attack will typically have a 1:1 loss ratio or better). Also an issue with replacements not filtering through properly to the Germans, his army has crumbled and there are still 500k men in the pool

    (in reply to fcam1387)
    Post #: 233
    Turn 65 Front line overview - 5/5/2011 11:25:56 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL:  fcam1387

    How on earth can you maintain a front that wide with a mere 2.3 million men? You must be near collapse at this stage. Facing over 6.3 million Soviets basically means he basically can hurl you all the way to Berlin with little effort.

    Why do you reckon Axis casualties have been so high? Is it a game issue or have you used them too aggressively?


    I can't maintain a coherent front with just 2,3 million men, especially since I try to avoid using unready units in the front lines. In many places I'm forced to rely on a checker board defense. Still, having the Fins occupying a 100+ mile front helps out a lot. Another fact preventing the Soviets from simply overrunning my positions is that they have trouble with their supply lines. My opponent told me that he lacks sufficient number of trucks.

    As for the state of my army, my OOB has been pretty stable these last few turns, mainly because the Soviets have trouble catching up and inflicting casualties. The IDs mostly have an average of 2-3 CV, with some lucky 4 CVs.  Though luckily most of them are now in ready status, and are least capable of defending against division sized Soviet units.

    My armoured units are in pretty decent shape, with Grossdeutschland having a 11 CV and my average Pz div having 8 CV. At any point of the game I am at least refitting 5 Pz / PzG divs.

    As for why my casualties are so high, I don't think that I used my units too aggressively. If anything, I am pretty conservative, only striking when it is unavoidable. It's just that whenever I counter attack, I suffer proportionally high losses, especially compared to the Soviets. Like hfarrish I think the Soviets should suffer more losses when they attack. Anyway, at this point of the game, I don't even bother attacking guard infantry corps any more. It's just not worth the losses.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL:  Q-Ball

    Maybe fiva55 is disbanding FBDs and airunits to stretch the manpower into more Rifles, but that's a button you can push only so many times


    I have indeed disbanded 3 FBDs and cleaned up my air units. I have also at least merged 10 IDs with <2000 men.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OVERVIEW OF THE FRONT LINES END OF TURN 65



    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/5/2011 11:38:03 PM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to hfarrish)
    Post #: 234
    RE: Turn 65 Front line overview - 5/6/2011 4:26:36 AM   
    Fishbed

     

    Posts: 1822
    Joined: 11/21/2005
    From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
    Status: offline     		I suppose that a fighting retreat to a shortened Lagoda-Valdai line may become an option soon right?
    I am a little worried by any possibility of breakthrough to the north-west in the Valdai area...


    _____________________________


    (in reply to fiva55)
    Post #: 235
    Turn 65 overview - 5/7/2011 10:09:50 AM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 65
    9/18/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.283.137
    Guns: 18.254
    AFV: 3.713
    Air: 1.892

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.624.183
    Guns: 110.915
    AFV: 9.107
    Air: 16.404

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.607.644
    Guns: 43.102
    AFV: 8.932
    Air: 6.397

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.354.105
    Guns: 117.075
    AFV: 28.033
    Air: 35.583

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    07 held
    14 retreated

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 447.252
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 20.040/Dam 672

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 35.835 men were added to Germany's front line units
    Unready units: 17 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • Around the Valdai Hills, 5 divisions got encircled by the Soviet Tank armies. A counter attack by the recently
    arrived III PzCrps managed to relief their comrades, inflicting heavy tank casualties on the Soviets.



  • The Kharkov line has finally been abandoned, it was breached at too many places.



    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by fiva55 -- 5/7/2011 10:12:45 AM >

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to Fishbed)
    • Post #: 236
    Turn 66 overview - 5/8/2011 3:34:48 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Fishbed

    I suppose that a fighting retreat to a shortened Lagoda-Valdai line may become an option soon right?
    I am a little worried by any possibility of breakthrough to the north-west in the Valdai area...



    It's inevitable, but I intend to delay it as long as possible.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BEGIN TURN 66
    9/25/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.223.599
    Guns: 17.769
    AFV: 3.582
    Air: 1.911

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.582.804
    Guns: 110.426
    AFV: 8.951
    Air: 16.495

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.654.015
    Guns: 44.271
    AFV: 9.201
    Air: 6.488

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.426.282
    Guns: 118.945
    AFV: 28.759
    Air: 36.363

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    13 held
    23 retreated

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 478.293
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 18.437/Dam 706

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 48.944 men were added to Germany's front line units
    Unready units: 23 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • All around the front, leading elements of the Soviets have reached our new lines, and have at some places breached our defences. All breakthrough could still be contained.


    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 237
    Turn 67 overview - 5/8/2011 3:44:52 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 67
    10/2/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.235.715
    Guns: 18.198
    AFV: 3.647
    Air: 2.143

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.749.155
    Guns: 113.464
    AFV: 9.309

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.660.097
    Guns: 44.443
    AFV: 9.241
    Air: 6.491

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.448.265
    Guns: 119.430
    AFV: 28.867
    Air: 36.641

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    1 retreated

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 471.770
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 18.437/Dam 706

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 55.635 men were added to Germany's front line units
    Unready units: 6 German units unready

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • Intelligence suggest that the Soviets are preparing for their winter offensive, and do not want to risk their troops getting cut off during the coming mud season. Just one attack was made in the Crimea.

  • In the Crimea, 3rd Rum. Army is still holding the Soviet 51st Army at bay, but only barely. Should the Soviet break through, they will be able to flank the Dnepr line. To prevent this, XXXIX PzCrps and XXXI PzCrps of 1st Panzer Army have been ordered to redeploy in the Crimea, with orders to break through the thinly held flanks of the Soviet 51st Army, reach the port of Feodosiya, and isolate and destroy the Soviets before the winter.




    Attachment (1)

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 238
    Turn 68 overview - 5/8/2011 5:36:44 PM   
    fiva55


    Posts: 376
    Joined: 3/4/2011
    From: The Netherlands
    Status: offline     		BEGIN TURN 68
    10/9/1943
    OKH RECEIVED REPORTS SUMMARY

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AXIS OOB
    Men: 2.266.679
    Guns: 18.473
    AFV: 3.776
    Air: 2.098

    SOVIET OOB
    Men: 6.875.090
    Guns: 115.074
    AFV: 9.559
    Air: 15.996

    AXIS LOSSES
    Men: 2.667.790
    Guns: 44.673
    AFV: 9.279
    Air: 6.495

    SOVIET LOSSES
    Men: 6.465.537
    Guns: 119.961
    AFV: 28.913
    Air: 36.078

    SOVIET ATTACKS RESULTS
    4 retreated

    PRODUCTION
    Manpower pool: 446.461
    Armaments pool: 0
    Rifle Squads: Rdy 19.197/Dam 409

    EVENT LOG
    Refit/replacements segment: 60.035 men were added to Germany's front line units

    NOTABLE EVENTS
  • Final preparations have been made for the mud season. One PzCrps has redeployed well behind the front lines to act as strategic reserve.

  • Crimea has been retaken by 1st Panzer, trapping large parts of the Soviet 51st Army in the process.




    Attachment (1)

    _____________________________

    Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
    Making History I & II
    Operation Blue: Completed
    Red Storm Rising

    (in reply to fiva55)
    • Post #: 239
    RE: Turn 68 overview - 5/8/2011 5:47:31 PM   
    Jajusha


    Posts: 249
    Joined: 12/21/2010
    Status: offline     		Mud arriving, fiva let me check the AAR for now.

    Still near half a million in the manpower pool. What about your armament factories, are they all operating? Are you short on resources?

    (in reply to fiva55)
    Post #: 240
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