German air losses too high

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German air losses too high - 3/31/2011 4:02:09 PM

Lokux

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/18/2011
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Hi,

I have been playing a PBEM for a while as german. Now we have reached may 1942. The air losses for the germans are very high about 7000 planes soviet losses about 28000. I have seen no threads about german air doctrine and luftwaffe organization. I haven't prioritized air setup. I have keep the original settings on doctrine with minor adjustments during first turn and after that back to the original values.

Now I have a total air force of 1600 planes and are getting smashed to bits by the soviet air force (about 9000 planes).

Advice please!

1. How should air bases be oginized and placed?
2. How should the national reserve be used?
3. Should manual upgrades be used?
4. What air doctrine settings are recommended?
5. How do I reduce the size of the soviet air force?

/regards Lokux

Post #: 1

RE: German air losses too high - 4/15/2011 7:13:22 PM

Lokux

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/18/2011
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Can somebody please give me some advice? This quetion buggs me in an otherwise superb game. Waitning for 1.04 to start a new GC. Looked good until I saw the german army in the spring :-C, no offesive possible....

(in reply to Lokux)

Post #: 2

RE: German air losses too high - 4/15/2011 7:27:54 PM

randallw

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
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You can't do much about the size of the Soviet Air Force; the western-most factories are at Leningrad, so elminating the aircraft factories is extremely tough.

(in reply to Lokux)

Post #: 3

RE: German air losses too high - 4/15/2011 9:10:11 PM

Aditia

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
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A few things I have learned (or think I have learned) from 43-45 PBEM campaign. Remember this is when the strategic initiative is on the soviet side, might not apply to earlier in the war.

- Concentrate the luftwaffe where the red airforce is strong to try and inflict as much losses as possible and reduce the havoc that massed numbers of soviet tactical bombers can cause.
- Always have some fighters where you are planning to move forces around to prevent unchecked interdiction
- Ground support can become very costly for german tactical bombers as they are not very resilient to AAA fire. You might want to focus on interdiction later on.
- Have escort and interception values set high. No rest for your fighter aces until they are burnt out
- Make sure your fighter aces are flying the planes that you have in your pool

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Post #: 4

RE: German air losses too high - 4/16/2011 12:04:16 AM

randallw

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You won't be able to reduce the size of the Soviet force, but you should avoid suffering a massacre of the German forces just by the high advantage in crew quality.

What you should do, at minimum, is to avoid sending out bombers beyond fighter escort range.

(in reply to Aditia)

Post #: 5

RE: German air losses too high - 4/16/2011 3:34:00 AM

PeeDeeAitch

Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
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Well, you are going to run into a lot of air losses, and like what really happened, the Soviets will have masses of airplanes always. Still, some things can be done. Here is turn 55 for me, about 5k losses for the Germans, 24k for the Soviets. These have gone up recently because I sacrificed planes during my spring 1942 encirclement (lowered the doctrine "to fly" dangerously), but still ok. Still, I am looking at 2500 planes for me, 7200 for the Soviets - sure 3 to 1 isn't great odds, but it seems lower than others I have seen.

I am not sure there is a sure fire way to limit the Soviets - I, for one, overrun airfields whenever I can. This, and I look to see what damaged planes are there, yields cheap kills of Soviet planes. I think I might have my panzers running around in the rear more often than some, but it seems to help.

All in all, the air war is just another one of those "realistic" problems the Axis face.

-edit - one other tactic I use is to keep my air flotillas grouped together. This might limit their coverage, but it does seem to help some. Of course, it might just be me spinning my prayer wheels.

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< Message edited by PeeDeeAitch -- 4/16/2011 3:35:25 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: German air losses too high - 4/16/2011 8:42:22 AM

Helpless

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quote:

5k losses for the Germans

Slight correction. 5K Axis. Part of which are those low exp. Rumanian and Hungarian air fleets.

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Post #: 7

RE: German air losses too high - 4/16/2011 10:13:53 PM

Lokux

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline

Thanks for the advice. I have been fiddling around with the settings and tactics. I have a direction I am going in the next GC I will be palying.

1. Concentrate the luftwaffe.
2. Place bombers further from the front.
3. Use luftwaffe mainly for ground support.
4. Continue anti air camaign june/july 41 for a couple of turns with more concentrated air field attacks
5. Rest part of luftwaffe in national reserve always (shift in/out)
6. Change air doctrine somwhere around october 41 to use larger more focused missions
7. Make sure that air bases always are in good supply to maximise fly capacity

/Lokux

(in reply to Lokux)

Post #: 8

RE: German air losses too high - 4/17/2011 8:11:49 AM

cpt flam

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From: caen - France
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for info of these 5K
only 451 from minors
luftwafe take the greater part

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Post #: 9

RE: German air losses too high - 4/17/2011 11:17:15 AM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokux

Thanks for the advice. I have been fiddling around with the settings and tactics. I have a direction I am going in the next GC I will be palying.

1. Concentrate the luftwaffe.
2. Place bombers further from the front.
3. Use luftwaffe mainly for ground support.
4. Continue anti air camaign june/july 41 for a couple of turns with more concentrated air field attacks
5. Rest part of luftwaffe in national reserve always (shift in/out)
6. Change air doctrine somwhere around october 41 to use larger more focused missions
7. Make sure that air bases always are in good supply to maximise fly capacity

/Lokux

Not sure I agree
1 Need 1 clump with each major advance
2 put them further away and ( I think) fewer fly and and atleast you get fewer missions/use more fuel which gets tight later.
3 yes but most important use is to fuel those panzer HQs
4 seems not to be good use of resources unless you are going to overrun airfield you are bombing and see 3 above
5 waste of resources IMHO. I only move out the stabs when 4/4 damaged
6 I've not needed yet
7 always good provided still keep them close to front, especially fighters to slaughter soviet bombers doing interdiction.

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Post #: 10

RE: German air losses too high - 4/18/2011 7:44:18 PM

Lokux

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Joined: 2/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokux

Thanks for the advice. I have been fiddling around with the settings and tactics. I have a direction I am going in the next GC I will be palying.

1. Concentrate the luftwaffe.
2. Place bombers further from the front.
3. Use luftwaffe mainly for ground support.
4. Continue anti air camaign june/july 41 for a couple of turns with more concentrated air field attacks
5. Rest part of luftwaffe in national reserve always (shift in/out)
6. Change air doctrine somwhere around october 41 to use larger more focused missions
7. Make sure that air bases always are in good supply to maximise fly capacity

/Lokux

Not sure I agree
1 Need 1 clump with each major advance
2 put them further away and ( I think) fewer fly and and atleast you get fewer missions/use more fuel which gets tight later.
3 yes but most important use is to fuel those panzer HQs
4 seems not to be good use of resources unless you are going to overrun airfield you are bombing and see 3 above
5 waste of resources IMHO. I only move out the stabs when 4/4 damaged
6 I've not needed yet
7 always good provided still keep them close to front, especially fighters to slaughter soviet bombers doing interdiction.

Hmmm. I have to disagree a bit.

1. I agree. What I was refering to is that I tended to spred them out all over the front to give air support in defence but it only gave the effect that I always was severely outnumbered. The concentration is sort of a docrine keeping the luftwaffe in tigth groups just as you described.

2. I think that preserving the bombers are a question of long term planning. This is just a hunch but it seems like a problem when the soviet air force can access your bomber air bases too easiliy.

3. The amount of fuel that can be air transported is low in comparrison to the need. I prefer to use HQ buildup which gives an all out effect on the entire panzer corps.

4. Might be true. Want to try this anyway. But with changed air doctrine.

5. I have seen that I take increasingly higher losses as the soviet air force builds up. As a counter to this changing the air doctrine helps preserving the luftwaffe as you keep the missions bigger and more focused.

6. Being in supply is priority no 1 for the ground forces as I see it. I think this applies to the air forces as well. Being close to the front is no 2 as the effect is reduced and you are more vurnerable.

Just my 2 cents of opinions.

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 11