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Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 12:26:02 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I've done different threads about how, what, when and where Map Maker will make maps.

Everything from what I want to the ASL crowd.

But those are my maps.

What about your maps?

What if you have a topo map to go by? Or want to recreate an old game map in part or whole?

Just how versatile is MM outside of Google Earth?

It's completely versatile.

You can let MM do the entire map by importing actual terrain and height maps from GE, you can import only one of those and hand make the other, or you can hand make either.

In other words you can let MM do whatever part of making the map you don't want to do.

IF on the other hand you want to do it all, jump in with both feet. You can sculpt the height right inside MM. I normally don't make many changes to a map's height once MM imports it. But I have made some small changes and if I wanted to I could recreate the entire height map in short order.

I usually work the height map off of the terrain map. I completely hand make every single terrain map that you will see in my scenarios. Every single pixel of them are my own creations. I'm the only one of the development that goes to that extent. It's not that I don't appreciate what MM is giving me, I just want pronounced color differences between terrain types and MM doesn't always give me that. I have a problem differentiating between some of the colors that are close together. So I put a palette of my own colors together and I use those.

The end result is the same; MM will use either what it makes, or what you give it. I make my maps using a free program called Paint.net and it works GREAT!

Within short order you can completely make a map either using GE or from scratch in MM. It doesn't care where the data comes from.

Good Hunting.

MR



_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Post #: 1
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 12:34:46 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Gee, that's all great.

I can either let MM create a map or I can do it by hand if I want.

Think about that for a moment.    

Not that long......

What does that really mean? Have any game maps you would like to recreate? TOTALLY RECREATE?

Any game system; anywhere! Computer or boardgame! Card games don't have boards so they are out. Of course, map must be scaled to fit the PCO map sizes or it won't work. But anything from 500 meters to 2km can be done. As can compression or expansion. You can do whatever you like to create your map.

You want your favorite ASL scenario? You know the one. You want the PCO map to look identical to it?  Easily done. In fact, we have just released what may be the last installation of the software to the team before you guys get it, one comment was that 2 of my maps looked "DIFFERENT"! They didn't have any texturing in the fields like the rest of the maps in the update do. Was that a problem????

Actually no, it was intentional. They are what I call my ASL maps. Just as I have a scenario that has all 5 time sequences(*) and can be played in any of them, I push MM'ers limits as well. Will everybody appreciate those maps? No. Will some like them. Yes.

Is it nice to have the flexibility to do WHATEVER I want with the presentation my maps have? Without a doubt!

So, whether you're a board gamer, computer gamer or budding artist in your own right your map is just an editor away from your fingertips to recreate them all.



(*) the five time sequences are:
40 seconds no reaction phase.
60 seconds no reaction phase.
80 seconds no reaction phase.
40 second orders phase/40 second reaction phase
60 second orders phase/60 second reaction phase

Good Hunting.

MR




< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/1/2011 12:41:44 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 2
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:10:04 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		When making a map in MM you take the height map and 'match' it to the terrain map.

To do this you get to look at both the height and terrain maps laid over each other. You can decide how much bleed through you get. In other words just how much of each map shows at one time.

Here is what a terrain map looks like. I have some structures on it already but you can see the terrain. You can also have MM hide the structures if you've already done some work on the map and yet still need to make some changes. You can come back at any time and make those changes.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 3
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:16:59 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Then I add more of the height map under the terrain map so I can see what is under it. This is done simply by holding the shift key down and rolling the mouse wheel one 'bump'.

Light colors on the height map are higher, darker colors are lower.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/1/2011 2:19:47 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 4
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:18:08 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		That's not enough yet so I add more height map to the editor.

Good Hunting.

MR






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 5
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:19:16 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The structures are getting in the way of my view of the underlying height map so I'll hide them.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 6
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:20:56 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Still more height map to work with. The terrain map is starting to get really faint at this point.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 7
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:21:58 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		But I'm not done yet. I want more of the height map showing through. There is just the faintest trace of color showing in this height map.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/1/2011 2:22:16 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 8
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:23:08 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Until finally I only show the height map itself.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 9
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:24:33 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Any section of your map can be zoomed either in or out so you can get as detailed and finely tuned as you like. You can actually make pixel by pixel corrections to both your height and terrain maps if you like.

Which can also allow you extremely precise placement of your structures on the map.

Good Hunting.

MR





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/1/2011 2:26:15 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 10
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 2:27:49 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		As you can tell, being able to show both the height and terrain maps as overlays allows you to easily adjust either terrain or height to create any map you like.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 11
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/1/2011 7:55:17 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1247
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline 		Would be nice to see the "finished" map to compare with the other steps. 

_____________________________

My Combat Campaigns Blog

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 12
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/3/2011 6:09:19 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		That is an old map but I've not shown the new grass textures on it so here are some screen shots of this map.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 13
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/3/2011 6:10:17 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This map has a tough battle for the Germans. This is where the Germans first encountered the JS-2.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 14
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/3/2011 6:10:55 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Hilly terrain.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 15
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 2:36:20 PM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


Any game system; anywhere! Computer or boardgame! Card games don't have boards so they are out. Of course, map must be scaled to fit the PCO map sizes or it won't work. But anything from 500 meters to 2km can be done. As can compression or expansion. You can do whatever you like to create your map.


Good Hunting.

MR



Let's say I'm a huge Close Combat III fan. In theory I could simply assemble a screenshot of my favorite CCIII map, scale it to 1 meter=1 pixle and crop it to 500^2 or other PC map standards, and I could have the exact same Close Combat map in the game. Of course I'd have to add buildings, trees, the height data, etc.

I don't mean making a translation of a CCIII map, I mean the actual CCIII map rendered in 3d, with all the original colors, right?



_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 16
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 2:49:04 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		In theory yes.

You would have a flat map because CC is 2d.

When you create the map you have choices of textures for grass and dirt etc. To recreate the CC map exactly you would have to make the texture files from the CC map, create a folder for them to show up in map maker, then pick them during map creation.

Not as difficult as that might sound. Once you have all the CC textures in that folder, you can use them to create lots of CC maps.

You start with the 1000 pixel but the MM creates files in multiples of 1024.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 17
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 3:03:46 PM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		Man the implications are amazing! Any game, whether it is a computer or tabletop game that I can get a top-down screenshot of can be inside the game! The real work would be the elevation and objects.

MR talks about ASL maps, so why doesn't someone just scan an ASL map (complete w/hexes for cosmetic reasons) put buildings and trees over the tops of those hexes containing them, do the elevations, and play PC on it?! It would be more a novelty, but still fun for those that want it.

I'm thinking whoever owns the copyrights would be upset.

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 18
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 3:26:32 PM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HintJ
MR talks about ASL maps, so why doesn't someone just scan an ASL map (complete w/hexes for cosmetic reasons) put buildings and trees over the tops of those hexes containing them, do the elevations, and play PC on it?! It would be more a novelty, but still fun for those that want it.
I think a few people did this a few years back. The problem is in comparison to maps done from the actual land form from say GE they look primitive. Even if the ASL map was done from real air-recon photos houses, roads and other terrain was simpified and moved to fit in the hexes so are not accurate. The terrain and structure is often moved around to make the game comply to ASL rules and not reality.

If you can now make something a lot better why go back?

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 19
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 3:31:38 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		What is the scale of CC maps?

I went to the COI forum to find a map zip to give it a try for you. I picked one of the Omaha mod maps. There are no graphic files in it that I can see. I have the original CC2 and CC5.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 20
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 4:29:08 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

You would have a flat map because CC is 2d.


There is elevation data in CC, as can be seen in the visualization I did for CC4 eons ago.

It is no problem to convert this data into a heightfield bitmap.

Best regards,
Thomm



(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 21
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 5:14:55 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomm

... as can be seen in the visualization I did for CC4 eons ago.


Hmmm. That direct link does not seem to work.

The CC4 images can be found here:

http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/simpson/870/

Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 22
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/21/2011 5:55:17 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HintJ

Man the implications are amazing! Any game, whether it is a computer or tabletop game that I can get a top-down screenshot of can be inside the game! The real work would be the elevation and objects.

MR talks about ASL maps, so why doesn't someone just scan an ASL map (complete w/hexes for cosmetic reasons) put buildings and trees over the tops of those hexes containing them, do the elevations, and play PC on it?! It would be more a novelty, but still fun for those that want it.

I'm thinking whoever owns the copyrights would be upset.



No need to scan hexes and all. A map grid comes standard in PCO.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 23
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 1:14:19 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

If you can now make something a lot better why go back?



Its would be a fun novelty, partly nostalgic, and not something I'd plan to use every time I play the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I went to the COI forum to find a map zip to give it a try for you. I picked one of the Omaha mod maps. There are no graphic files in it that I can see. I have the original CC2 and CC5.

I'm planning to take multiple screen shots from within the CC game and combine them afterwards in Paint.net for a total map.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomm


It is no problem to convert this data into a heightfield bitmap.



I was planning on just hand painting the elevations, but I may ask for some help if it doesn't work right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


No need to scan hexes and all. A map grid comes standard in PCO.




The point behind the hexes would be to make the game look like a board game, but play like PC. Imagine making a 2K x 2K map of the Monopoly game board that looks exactly like the real game Monopoly, complete with some simple green and red houses and there were dice on it and so on . . . But you were playing a game of Panzer Command on it.

That's an absurd example, I know, but my point is literally having maps from other games, and playing Panzer Command on it.

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 24
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 1:24:59 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HintJ

The point behind the hexes would be to make the game look like a board game, but play like PC. ... . . But you were playing a game of Panzer Command on it.

That's an absurd example, I know, but my point is literally having maps from other games, and playing Panzer Command on it.


At one point I had one of the SL layouts done. It may have been eitehr Hill 621, or HH at Peipsk. I didn't put hexes on the main map, but I did keep them on the mini-map. In fact I used the SL maps for the minimap. For the main playing map, I converted the map to PCO standards and hand painted the eleveations using the heightmap sculpting tools.

Natrually this won't be in the release, and I haven't worked on it for quite a while. After release I may try to dig it up and get it updated to latest map standards.

thanks
rick

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 25
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 1:35:42 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Back in my CC days I had the Pacific mod for CC2 and the Okinawa mod for CC5. Been a long time since I messed with CC files. I thought there might be some tga graphics to look at.

Upload a zip with the pasted screenshot and I'll see what I can do with it.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 26
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 3:07:19 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		Here's a very rough start. The CC3 maps are around 520 M wide but not quite 400 M high. I Stretched if for now. Definitely needs some cleaning, but still a rough idea for a starting point.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HintJ -- 4/22/2011 4:00:51 AM >

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 27
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 3:41:50 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I'll see what I can do. There is a lot of detail there. Can you turn off trees and shadows? If not, I may have to paint over those areas and it may not look as pretty.

What is the yellow terrain?

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 28
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 4:02:41 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		I updated it w/out trees, but still has shadows. Don't worry if its messy or what not. I'll see what I can do when I get my hands on the map maker. That yellow stuff is tall grass, I think.

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 29
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/22/2011 4:18:39 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Got it. May be this weekend.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 30
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