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RE: Your Style Maps - 4/29/2011 10:55:57 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Rick,

Thank you very much, this is most interesting!

I think I am beginning to grasp what is possible here.

Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 61
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/29/2011 11:16:52 PM   
general_solomon

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		I cant believe how easy you guys have made to create maps. especially cc maps. like someone else said before, i often wondered how a cc map would look in 3d. with this new mm its a reality.

the reason the cc community is still around is becuase it was possible for people to add their own maps and campaigns.

I am no artist but would love to see some convert a couple cc maps for us to play.

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 62
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 12:40:07 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomm

..Could you please just throw that texture on a map with random elevations?

I am just curious what this looks like, because so far I recall seeing only generic textures generated from "solid" color bitmaps.

In other words: I still don't get it!

Best regards,
Thomm



Thomm, I used an existing map and just laid the texture over it. The texture quality isn't what you'd want to use since i downloaded the screenshot resized it to 1000 x 1000 then converted to a dds. ideally you'd do all of your texturing work with some high fidelity source, then convert to dds as last step.

but in about 10 minutes I did this.

Thanks
Rick



Thanks Rick! And yes, that resolution is definitely not the resolution that should be used for the base ground texture. Perhaps a 1000x1000 (or more) pixel texture for a 500Mx500M map.



< Message edited by HintJ -- 4/30/2011 12:44:18 AM >

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
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Post #: 63
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 12:51:53 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HintJ

Thanks Rick! And yes, that resolution is definitely not the resolution that should be used for the base ground texture. Perhaps a 1000x1000 (or more) pixel texture for a 500Mx500M map.




I think at one point the megatexture.pngs that are generated for source editing and the final dds for use are 4096x4096 pixels.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 64
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 4:24:31 PM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		I've got an idea for texturing:

What about taking a normal PC map megatexture, loading it in Paint.net, reducing it to a greyscale (black and white), lightening it up so that only a faint outline of the textures shows, and then printing it (in whole or in sections).

Then I would get out my awesome set of crayons, color the map, rescan the map (in whole or in sections), and then reassemble the map for use in-game?

In fact, couldn't I do this for any texture? Hmmm . . . . or for any game that allows texture mods?

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
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(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 65
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 4:32:53 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I'll point out something about the CC map. To give the illusion of 3D, the designer made the hills/ridges light colour on one side and darker on the other to make it seem like the sun is shining on the light side and shadowed on the other. While messing with programs that turn these types of graphics into DEMs to make grayscale bmps to create terrain elevations, I found that you get peaks with the light side and valleys with the dark side. So don't think that you can grayscale your map and make the terrain bmp for PCO MM. You can however start with a plain gray terrain with your map over it and use the sculpting tools to raise the hills and sink the river.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 66
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 4:45:09 PM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		I understand what you are saying, but I'm just talking about coloring a greyscale image of the map w/crayons--not necessarily a CC map, but any map or texture.

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 67
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 4:59:27 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Yeah I understand. It was just something that came to mind from before that I never posted about.

Also there is a graphic with the "official" colours to use for terrain with the rgb numbers. It is in the MM guide. I think that you can use other colours too but Rick is best to ask about that. Might make your crayon job conversion easier, maybe not.

MM uses 8 bit colour. Maybe Rick can explain that.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 68
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 10:34:34 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I'll point out something about the CC map. To give the illusion of 3D, the designer made the hills/ridges light colour on one side and darker on the other to make it seem like the sun is shining on the light side and shadowed on the other. While messing with programs that turn these types of graphics into DEMs to make grayscale bmps to create terrain elevations, I found that you get peaks with the light side and valleys with the dark side. So don't think that you can grayscale your map and make the terrain bmp for PCO MM. You can however start with a plain gray terrain with your map over it and use the sculpting tools to raise the hills and sink the river.


The elevation data of any CC map is easily available in a text file.

One can directly create a greyscale height map from this data.

The same is true for the terrain tile type data, which is also stored in a text file and just has to be translated to a bitmap with different colors.

Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 69
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 10:52:53 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Thomm, where the heck is your post with the link to your 3D terrain? Did I dream it?

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 70
RE: Your Style Maps - 4/30/2011 11:23:28 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomm
........One can directly create a greyscale height map from this data.
Best regards,
Thomm


If thats the case, then it would be easy to import. MM also has a couple of date fields for setting elev. So that if you have a greyscale height map, and know the elev (either actual or relative) of two points on the map, MM will scale the terrain based on these two greyscale values elev input for these two points.

thanks
rick

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 71
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/1/2011 12:44:26 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Thomm, where the heck is your post with the link to your 3D terrain? Did I dream it?


It is still on page one.

http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/simpson/870/

While the Fortunecity webpage is tedious to read, the images show that the necessary information (elevation, terrain type) is accessible.

Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 72
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/1/2011 1:00:00 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		By the way, below you can find the overview maps I did for CC5:



Those were a GREAT gaming aid, as they could be substituted for the original overview maps and contained all "internal" data of the maps!

Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 73
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/1/2011 1:02:30 PM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Compare the CC4 renderings:



Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 74
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/1/2011 3:36:13 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Thomm if you can do that I'd say that you have the concept of DEM and map making down very well. You should have a blast with the Map Maker in PCO.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 75
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/1/2011 5:58:37 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Anyone with the kinds of skill you have Thomm will find MM to their great satisfaction!

It was created for mere mortals not for those of you that don't walk on the ground like the rest of us....

Good Hunting.

MR


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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 76
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/1/2011 6:24:33 PM   
dazoline II


Posts: 400
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline 		Now I know why any troops or tanks in that roundabout in the southwest always got plastered, its got LOS to so much of the map. It was never apparent to me in CC how much it was exposed.

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Moscow by winter? Only if you send Fast Heinz to Kiev.

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Post #: 77
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/2/2011 12:38:30 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomm


The elevation data of any CC map is easily available in a text file.

One can directly create a greyscale height map from this data.

The same is true for the terrain tile type data, which is also stored in a text file and just has to be translated to a bitmap with different colors.

Best regards,
Thomm


I think I found the text files in the map folder. Also are .bgm .los .mmm and a few others for each map. Just wondering, are any of these files the actual map graphic that can be easily converted into a .png?


_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 78
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/2/2011 10:31:49 AM   
Thomm

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HintJ

I think I found the text files in the map folder. Also are .bgm .los .mmm and a few others for each map. Just wondering, are any of these files the actual map graphic that can be easily converted into a .png?


I am ashamed to admit that I never dealt with the terrain texture. I recall that there was a program for extracting/re-packing it from one of the files, but I never used it.

Best regards,
Thomm

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 79
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 1:56:34 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		Hey Thomm, I found an interesting program written by CplFilth called "CCMold."

From the readme:

"You can also extract an elevation image from a cc map.txt file.

Syntax :
CCMold file.txt file.pgm

file.txt map file to read elevation from

file.pgm grayscale image filename

/s optional, causes elevation
values to be scaled so that the
highest value found will be
assigned as white. Makes small
elevation changes more pronounced."

*edit--another program called Texturemaker3 extracts the .bgm into a TGA file of the map.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HintJ -- 5/3/2011 3:54:29 AM >

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to Thomm)
Post #: 80
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 2:20:12 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		Hmmm . . .
This is a greyscale map CCMold created from the map I posted earlier:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 81
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 2:33:39 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		Here's 3 images reduced into one: First is terrain, second greyscale, and the third is combined.

Any MM experts here think this type of greyscale map might work in PCO?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 82
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 2:55:34 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		In MR's first page screen shots you see the full size grayscale. Somehow the program converts that into a 16x11 bmp. Rick and MR may know a way to import your big grayscale into MM and get it to make the little one.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 83
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 3:31:15 AM   
general_solomon

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		this is great to see you guys figuring out the technical stuff. this way those of us that are not can benefit from your discoveries. appreciate all the hard work.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 84
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 3:56:51 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
Somehow the program converts that into a 16x11 bmp.



16 x 11 ?! Is that the DEM resolution for Google Maps or something

< Message edited by HintJ -- 5/3/2011 3:57:40 AM >

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 85
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 6:12:09 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		If you are going to make your own grayscale the usual size is 65x65 for 1km maps. It can be made 129x129 for high detail. 2 km x 2km maps are normally 129x129.

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 86
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/3/2011 11:26:23 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

If you are going to make your own grayscale the usual size is 65x65 for 1km maps. It can be made 129x129 for high detail. 2 km x 2km maps are normally 129x129.

129x129 seems quite acceptable when I reduced it.

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 87
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/5/2011 12:47:40 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		I combined the height map and terrain texture in a free program called Terragen. Will it look this good in PCO? One can only hope . . .






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakower

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 88
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/5/2011 3:59:19 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I tried real hard to get a shot that would show the shore and slope but it is too gradual. Also the far end looks uneven but from the other direction it doesn't. Once you have the game you can see it.

Anyway the MM auto levels water and surrounding terrain. It is a bit of a talent though to get it right. I don't think you can have that steep of a slope from ground level to the water.

Map made by Rick.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 89
RE: Your Style Maps - 5/5/2011 4:11:45 AM   
Stridor


Posts: 5081
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Yes you can.

Water won't be as nice as it is not pixel shaded (yet), but is animated.

Also due to camera frustum limitations you won't be able to see the zenith.

Regards

S.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 90
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