RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think

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RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 6:07:59 PM

z1812

Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline

Hi All,

I bought Red Orchestra years ago and have never played it. The issues were concerning my router setup. I am just not interested in making changes to my routing system in order to satisfy Steam or any game or software company. I was a bit frustrated but quickly decided my best course of action was simply never to buy a game requiring Steam.

Instead, when I buy, I do so from companies like Matrix and others who are straight forward in their approach.

Regards John

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 61

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 7:58:54 PM

GrumpyMel

Posts: 864
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Basicaly,

You need to vote with your wallet and not purchase games that require overly draconian DRM schemes in order to work. If companies find that thier DRM requirements eat into thier bottom line more then piracy does...then they'll start rethinking those strategies.

It's why I really like Matrix, the DRM they employ all seems extremely reasonable to me.

I think it's a pretty crappy design for a game that is not designed as an "online play" type game to require an internet connection in order to start up the game. However if a company wants to put a crappy design into thier products...it is thier right. As consumers our only legitimate recourse is to vote against such design choices with our wallets.

As long as the company lists "requires Steam" on their box and system requirements for purchase....you pretty much know what you're getting into when you purchase it. Now if they didn't include "requires Steam" on the box and in the system requirements section if your purchased online....you might have a legitimate case for a charge-back under the "did not work as advertised" clause that most credit card companies support.

(in reply to z1812)

Post #: 62

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 8:27:35 PM

GrumpyMel

Posts: 864
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: I.C.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Its amazing how cluless about law some people are,....especially consumer laws. Almost EVERY single civilized nations has consumer proctection laws that mean these EULA's are worthless. You can not sign away certain rights,....and in fact there is no signature on a EULA, thereofore IT IS NOT A BINDING AGREEMENT.

"I saw in another topic a couple people arguing about whether an EULA was a legally binding contract. My brother in law is a lawyer and I just asked him about whether an EULA is a legally binding contract. He said that if it states specifically in the EULA that by clicking the accept button, you agree to everything in the contract, then yes, it is in fact legally binding. It WILL hold up in court too if there was ever a need for it. An EULA is no different than a contract a movie star agrees to when they are hired to shoot a movie. Just because you don't physically sign something, it is still legally binding. However if you are not forced to look at and click accept on the EULA before using a product, then it is not legally binding. Here is something I found while doing some digging after I talked to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement#Shrink-wrap_and_click-wrap_licenses

I point you to this paragraph in particular, under the section "Shrink Wrap and Click Wrap Licenses":

Further, in ProCD v. Zeidenberg, the license was ruled enforceable because it was necessary for the customer to assent to the terms of the agreement by clicking on an "I Agree" button in order to install the software. In Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp., however, the licencee was able to download and install the software without first being required to review and positively assent to the terms of the agreement, and so the license was held to be unenforceable.

Because Zeidenberg had no choice but to click Accept on the EULA before using the product, then it is a valid legal contract. However Specht was able to use the software without first agreeing to the EULA, and thus the EULA is not legally binding. I also found out that if a minor child clicks Accept on an EULA and then does something to violate the terms, the parent or legal guardian then takes full responsibilty. Anyway just wanted to clear that up."

Source:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/988968-/58415129

I'm not a lawyer but I do understand a little bit about this area of law. EULA's are a form of contract. However it's very important to understand that just because somethings is in a contract...even a traditional one signed in ink by both parties.... doesn't mean that it is legaly enforceable. Essentialy contracts don't trump laws or common law rights.

Companies will try to write all sorts of stuff into EULA's or regular contracts that doesn't stand a snowballs chance in Hades of being legaly binding. What is and is not legaly enforcable will vary by jurisidiction....and frankly you really want know for sure what will be upheld until it gets in front of a judge.

But it's a very big mistake to assume that just because a company writes "you are bound by condition X" that a court will agree with them.

(in reply to IanF1966)

Post #: 63

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 9:11:22 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrumpyMel

I'm not a lawyer but I do understand a little bit about this area of law. EULA's are a form of contract. However it's very important to understand that just because somethings is in a contract...even a traditional one signed in ink by both parties.... doesn't mean that it is legaly enforceable. Essentialy contracts don't trump laws or common law rights.

Companies will try to write all sorts of stuff into EULA's or regular contracts that doesn't stand a snowballs chance in Hades of being legaly binding. What is and is not legaly enforcable will vary by jurisidiction....and frankly you really want know for sure what will be upheld until it gets in front of a judge.

But it's a very big mistake to assume that just because a company writes "you are bound by condition X" that a court will agree with them.

The main trouble with challenging a EULA is not if it is legally binding or not. The main trouble is going to court to fight it. They will have alot of layers who are experts in this area and you will have, well lets face it, not as much.

You can be right according to the law but that is not the same as proving it in a court of law. Also you should consider that it can take years before the court rules. And if you win you can look forward to another round in a higher court. Going to court against a big company with any chance of winning you need alot of money. And if you lose you risk going bankrupt.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to GrumpyMel)

Post #: 64

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 10:08:05 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

This thread is getting long, it's getting about that time for a spam bot to copy and paste a random post from here.......

Okay then - random post: Name that song from which the lyrics below come from?

What are those dogs doing sniffing at my feet
They're on to something, picking up
Picking up this heat, this heat

Give me *****
And how you feel to make it real
Real as anything you've seen
Get a life with this dreamer's dream

You got me on that one!

Warspite1

It was steam (what else?) by Peter Gabriel

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to ilovestrategy)

Post #: 65

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 10:18:21 PM

ilovestrategy

Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

It was steam (what else?) by Peter Gabriel

Now, I have that song in my head!

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 66

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 10:34:47 PM

Anthropoid

Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline

Heh,

That is a real good song. Funny I didn't recognize the lyrics. There was a point when I knew them by heart and eagerly sang along anytimt it came on.

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to ilovestrategy)

Post #: 67

RE: *RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think - 4/5/2011 10:36:07 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Heh, That is a real good song. Funny I didn't recognize the lyrics. There was a point when I knew them by heart and eagerly sang along anytimt it came on.

Warspite1

Good video too