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Taking Brisbane or Nomea

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Taking Brisbane or Nomea Page: [1]
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Taking Brisbane or Nomea - 9/22/2002 2:52:51 AM   
Deban

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/7/2002
Status: offline 		Has anyone ever taken one of these towns yet in PBEM?
And what would happen to the reinforcments that are supposed to arive at these places?
Post #: 1
- 9/22/2002 7:26:12 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I could not imagine any Japanese player taking Brisbane. But Noumea is a possibility.

Not in the long scenario, but in some of the shorter scenarios, a strong Japanese carrier TF, could sneak down the right hand side of the map and assault Noumea.

It could only work if the Allied player left Noumea unprotected and moved all forces northward. It also requires a lack of LBA on the islands North and North East of Noumea.

Whilst all this is going on, the Allies are probably attacking somewhere else, so what you gain on the roundabout you lose on the swing.

And I am not a gamey player anyhow.

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 2
not clear - 9/22/2002 1:59:07 PM   
Luskan

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline 		How is taking Noumea or Brisbane gamey??
In a real war it would have been a killer-blow if pulled off correctly!

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 3
- 9/22/2002 4:06:31 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Taking Brisbane is not gamey, just not possible against a half competent player.

And anyhow, Brisbane is filled with Queensland beer - yuck!

Using a map edge is gamey. Specificially the right hand map edge.

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 4
- 9/22/2002 9:44:11 PM   
Mojo

 

Posts: 915
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: Portland, Oregon USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe 98
[B]...
Using a map edge is gamey. Specificially the right hand map edge. [/B][/QUOTE]

I've tried using the left hand map edge but my ships move so slow;)

_____________________________

If something's not working you might want to tunk it a dite.
Mojo's Mom

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 5
- 9/23/2002 3:03:11 AM   
Deban

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/7/2002
Status: offline 		But IF the Japs do take one of those bases what happens
to the reinforcements that are due to arrive thier?

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 6
- 9/24/2002 5:53:50 AM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		This word gamey. sheesh.. It seems to be that people always want balanced battles. But in war the 2 sides didnt meet first and do a head count to make sure that both sides are equal.

Also the Australian War Memorial's latest issue of their magazine has an article that proves that the Japs had no plans to invade Australia at all. They lead the Allies to believe that they wanted to invade to get the USA to divert some of their forces away from the fighting to defend Australia.

So back to the topic.. If someone can yake Brisbane go for it. Tell us how you did it too. :D

_____________________________

Ross Moorhouse

Project Manager
www.csosimtek.com
Email: rossm@csogroup.org

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 7
To Brisbane or not Brisbane - 9/24/2002 6:24:56 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Greetings. For me Brisbane has no appeal. My main goal is to secure Lunga. To this end I try to capture Port Moresby to protect my supply line and flanks. Then I use everything in the Solomons (minus the barest of force to hold PM/NG-force the allied to mount a major operation to regain) If the plan works the allies will be busy in the Solomons and not able to fight in 2 places at once. I don't think the Aussie bases should be worth auto victory (I don't have a problem with the game making them auto victory I only mean I don't think in the actual event capturing one of them would have been of value but would likely have led to disaster for any Japanese land unit commited.
The operation for me is Lunga and bases to the east (Santa Cruz and Espirtu Santo)
I am trying to simplify my supply problem not increase it beyond limits. Supply of a land campaign in Australia boggles my mind. I don't consider it gamey. If my Japanese opponents want to try it thats their bussiness. I just do not believe it is sound.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 8
Vital spots - 9/24/2002 7:01:04 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Port Moresby and Lunga. If IJN/IJA capture and develop defenses around these two puppies...game over or at worst a draw.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Deban)
Post #: 9
RE: Vital spots - 12/22/2006 1:13:03 AM   
XG76


Posts: 27
Joined: 12/4/2006
Status: offline 		so, years after release and taking into consideration tons of experience: did anyone ever acomplished that feat successfully and (auto-?) shut down (or not...) the game by seizing N or B?
Any battle report regarding this appreciated...

Ralf

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 10
RE: Vital spots - 12/26/2006 4:21:40 AM   
wissooner

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/9/2003
From: Norman, OK
Status: offline 		nope, closest I ever came was an auto-victory at Rockhampton...............................Ken

(in reply to XG76)
Post #: 11
RE: Vital spots - 1/29/2007 9:36:51 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		I tried N and failed. Sank my opponent's carriers for no losses on my side and took PM as well, so could concentrate on Noumea. Occupied all of New Caledonia except Noumea rather easily, then built up the small air bases to provide CAP etc., but couldn't achieve air superiority despite carrier strikes and surface bombardments on Noumea. Although Noumea was cut-off by air and surface blockade, reinforcements and supplies continue to arrive directly in the base, so there is no way to starve the base into submission. Wasn't able to amass enough forces to take Noumea, and eventually his reinforcements outnumbered my forces on land and in the air. Got bombed, bombed and bombed again, eventually losing most of transports, then most of my planes due to lack of supplies, then most of my warships (trying to evacuate the remnants of my Army) due to lack of air cover.  It was probably an error to leave Luganville and Efate in Allied hands, which provided bases for heavy bombers which harrassed my convois and bombed my airfields. But taking those bases first would have meant even more time for Allied reinforcements to arrive, and would have weakened my own attack force for the main target. The entire ops was a bloody affair for both sides, but the Allies only won thanks to unrealistic supply and reinforcement availability. But it was great fun!

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 1/29/2007 9:50:18 AM >

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to wissooner)
Post #: 12
RE: Vital spots - 1/29/2007 12:08:16 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Luganville is probably the only realistic auto victory target for the Japanese player.  The question is when to move on it?  If you give the Allied player enough time he will take the base back before '43 rolls around so it's a delicate move that must be a hammer blow accepting very heavy loses.  Noumea, gulp and Brisbane is a base to far.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 13
RE: Vital spots - 1/31/2007 5:28:49 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		I took Noumea at the beginning of July (just a turn or two ahead of the arrival of 1 Mar Div) in Scen 19 (I think).  It was a near run thing though.  My opp surrendered at that point (since he and I at least believe no further naval reinforcements can arrive until Noumea is Allied friendly). 

If I remember correctly my opp aggressively moved part of the Americal Div up to Lunga early on and that weakened the defenses at Noumea to where to where I could overcome them.  If the Marines (the regiments) had landed I know my Army would have been stalemated and then I would have been way overextended.  Even Luganville is probably an overextension for the Japanese.  Twice as Allies I've lost it in the early going and then "bombed my way back" before 1 Jan 43.
(I think the real kicker is the overlooked requirement that the Japanese must have twice the required supply in the place at that time:  pretty sure I actually recaptured Luganville on about the 10th of Jan in one game; just had the garrison eating their boots for sustenance on 1 Jan by bombing the place constantly).

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 14
RE: - 2/18/2007 2:41:02 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ross Moorhouse

This word gamey. sheesh.. It seems to be that people always want balanced battles. But in war the 2 sides didnt meet first and do a head count to make sure that both sides are equal.


well said!

the whole point of war is to make it an unequal fight. the whole point is to get the other guy in a bad spot and keep shooting and stabbing and strafging and bombing till hes dead!

period

if people dont wanna play like that then they shouldnt play wargames ya know?

yes its a game, but its a WAR game



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(in reply to Ross Moorhouse)
Post #: 15
RE: RE: - 2/18/2007 2:41:47 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		but i do remember that someone invaded australia, but took heavy losses. as well i remember that someone DID once take Noumea, also with heavy losses, so it CAN be done, but its deffinitely not easy.

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(in reply to marky)
Post #: 16
RE: RE: - 2/18/2007 3:25:43 AM   
UV Player


Posts: 4
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		It is very posibile that marky will be able to talk more about one of these strategies.

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 17
RE: RE: - 2/18/2007 6:56:38 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Once, i took Rabaul, and in another game i took Kavieng, i cant remember whether it was UV or WITP tho, and i cant remember how many losses, but it was only against the AI

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(in reply to UV Player)
Post #: 18
RE: RE: - 2/18/2007 7:01:51 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		as for Truk ? dont even think about it, its way too heavily defended

if u wanna invade truk or ponape, which can be a good bomber base for hitting truk, or brisbane, ya gotta get WITP

while UV is still and will be a great game, there are so many better options for control in WITP


_____________________________


(in reply to marky)
Post #: 19
RE: RE: - 2/18/2007 11:29:39 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ross Moorhouse

This word gamey. sheesh.. It seems to be that people always want balanced battles. But in war the 2 sides didnt meet first and do a head count to make sure that both sides are equal.


well said!

the whole point of war is to make it an unequal fight. the whole point is to get the other guy in a bad spot and keep shooting and stabbing and strafging and bombing till hes dead!

period

if people dont wanna play like that then they shouldnt play wargames ya know?

yes its a game, but its a WAR game




You two are both missing the point of 'gamey'. It is nothing to do with playing fair, or having a fair fight (in the RL arena). Gamey exploits are those that exploit weaknesses in the game design to achieve results that should not be achieveable. The issue with map edges is they do not exist in RL. Creeping down a map edge, because the game design does not allow adequate recce of that hex row, when in RL, forces off board, or traffic across the board edge would spot it, is gamey. Reloading games until you get the result you want is gamey (if not cheating) even against the AI. Exploiting game mechanics, and doing things that totally disregard RL constraints (for instance, the classic end of game victory point rush - although not so much in UV - knowing the opponent doesn't have another turn to respond) is gamey.

Best of luck on the most uneven, unfair vicious ambush you can manage, so long as you don't exploit weaknesses in the game to achieve it!

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 20
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