RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 11:49:33 AM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Tarhunnas, if you can keep Romania in the game until Christmas, my hat's off to you, that's no mean feat given the state of your forces. The Wehrmacht may be a wreck, but you're doing a great job running down the clock.

Despite everything, you are still way ahead of schedule here. To put this in perspective: the Sovs ought to be pounding on Budapest by this point down south. Up north, you have even more slack, they ought to be on the Vistula at this point, right next to Warsaw. The Soviets are at least six months behind schedule and more than that up north.

Thanks for the encouragement! I suspect though that things are starting to come apart in a bad way now.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 12:23:35 PM

Encircled

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Tremendous work

How much longer do you have to hold out for?

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 2:35:51 PM

veji1

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I dont't understand why you are still on the Volkov line in the north... You should have retreated all the way to Riga and the Dvina already, to free some troops to protect your south line and ensure that you are ready for the retreat into the mountains with strong enough formations... All those troops in the north are useless...

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 3:03:34 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I dont't understand why you are still on the Volkov line in the north... You should have retreated all the way to Riga and the Dvina already, to free some troops to protect your south line and ensure that you are ready for the retreat into the mountains with strong enough formations... All those troops in the north are useless...

Several of us asked that before, and I think a pullback is warranted, though Tarhunnas indicated he has been rotating units, and sending depleted units up north there. So, there isn't alot of good units to use anyway, apparently.

It's tough to give up territory you have already.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 3:32:08 PM

Peltonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Tarhunnas, if you can keep Romania in the game until Christmas, my hat's off to you, that's no mean feat given the state of your forces. The Wehrmacht may be a wreck, but you're doing a great job running down the clock.

Despite everything, you are still way ahead of schedule here. To put this in perspective: the Sovs ought to be pounding on Budapest by this point down south. Up north, you have even more slack, they ought to be on the Vistula at this point, right next to Warsaw. The Soviets are at least six months behind schedule and more than that up north.

Land wise he is doing as good or better then historical, but his troops strength is down about 1 million men.

The only thing that could possible save him is that Berlin is still a good distance from Russian railheads.

20 to 30 good strength(morale) units could hold off russia's best in front of Berlin because of supply issues.

Draw is still possible, but once the ground freezes things will get interesting for sure.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 3:33:52 PM

Peltonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Tremendous work

How much longer do you have to hold out for?

I beleive he has to hold Berlin for another 45 turns to get a draw.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 3:55:49 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I dont't understand why you are still on the Volkov line in the north... You should have retreated all the way to Riga and the Dvina already, to free some troops to protect your south line and ensure that you are ready for the retreat into the mountains with strong enough formations... All those troops in the north are useless...

My troops on the Volkhov and down to Vitebsk are a sorry lot of ants. They are keping far larger Soviet forces occupied. The Volkhov is to 80% held by the Finns, who can't do anything else. A retreat to the Dvina would not shorten my front appreciably, and give up lots of territory for free, especially as now when a lycky spell of mud put the Soviets on hold anyway.

Due to the recent Soviet advances and capture of Novgorod, I will do a fighting withdrawal to the lakes line.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 1/3/2012 3:59:30 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 3:57:29 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 180. November 23 1944. Snow/Mud.

The Soviet horde is hammering on the gates of Rumania.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 4:01:32 PM

Tarhunnas

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In the Central Ukraine, some troops are cut off near Vinnitsa, but the mud and nearby reinforcements might give us a chance to save the situation. Map before German moves.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 4:35:00 PM

Tarhunnas

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Map after Axis moves. Unfortunately, a promising attack to free our trapped comrades failed, so we are set for another little disaster in the Ukraine...

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 5:41:18 PM

Q-Ball

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No help along the Volkhov, and you may as well leave them there to die.

The Finns are probably completely cooked at this point, but I wonder if you could have gotten more mileage out of them if you had pulled them back to Finland in 1942, and allowed them to recover morale and strength. An 80-morale, full-strength Finnish army dug-in on either side of Lake Ladoga (especially up north in all that heavy woods), would be a very tough customer. I suppose the Soviets can just leave it, but if you do, doesn't that mean you need to clear 100% of Germany in order to get a victory? Someone should check that.

If the Finns are dug-in in 1944 along the Neva, the Reds pretty much have to attack them to get Leningrad back for the Victory conditions

Also, couple minor questions:

1. What is the Elite SS Infantry Division I see in everyone's shots in late-war? What unit is that? I would have thought all the SS Grenadier Divisions were non-elite.

2. Seeing your shot, I just realized the Slovak Mobile Division never has a withdrawl date! It's still there in late 1944, and I suppose will be until Slovakia surrenders. Shouldn't that unit have a withdrawl date at some point? It's a minor issue, though that's probably the only unit on the map that you have plenty of replacements for!

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 6:01:48 PM

Tarhunnas

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The Finns are far better than they look in that shot, the mud makes them CV 1. The Finnish infantry divisions are actually 4 or 5 in strength, which makes them the best infantry I have. So they are far from a spent force, and if I pull back to well fortified Leningrad I expect to be able to hold the Russkies for a while.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 6:18:57 PM

Baelfiin

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@qball the slovakians fight until lvov is recaptured

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 9:28:15 PM

Flaviusx

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I would consider doing just that Tarhunnas: pull back to Leningrad with the Finns and let them fend for themselves. It will take a lot of time and units for the Red Army to chew through that, and divert them from the action elsewhere.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 9:28:59 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 181. November 30 1944. Snow.

Despite recent setbacks at the front, it is possible to build up a new line with the help of reinforcements coming in. Map after Axis moves.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/3/2012 9:46:00 PM

The SNAFU

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What happened to those cutoff divisions? Were they destroyed or were they able to get back to the Axis lines?

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 1:02:40 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The SNAFU

What happened to those cutoff divisions? Were they destroyed or were they able to get back to the Axis lines?

Oh, sad to say, it was the old "Heldentod im Osten" (A heros death in the East).

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 5:02:45 PM

ComradeP

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Q-Ball, the elite SS Grenadier division is the Wallonian SS motorized brigades that turns into a SS Grenadier division. For some reason, it downgrades to the 43 variant which is already out of date by 1944.

Tarhunnas: The Soviets don't need Leningrad to win. Capturing all Finnish and German ports might also put it out of supply, making eventually capturing the place easier if the Soviets occupy Germany.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/4/2012 5:03:04 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 5:10:34 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Q-Ball, the elite SS Grenadier division is the Wallonian SS motorized brigades that turns into a SS Grenadier division. For some reason, it downgrades to the 43 variant which is already out of date by 1944.

Tarhunnas: The Soviets don't need Leningrad to win. Capturing all Finnish and German ports might also put it out of supply, making eventually capturing the place easier if the Soviets occupy Germany.

I looked it up and counted after posting, but that's right, Finland/Leningrad can be completely bypassed. If Berlin falls, presumably all of Germany and Austira, etc, is probably falling apart, so the 39 VP condition probably doesn't matter that much.

I think Leningrad would stay supplied, though, if it was connected to Finland, since Helsinki is a supply source, even if Germany falls apart.

But there are only like 11 VPs in Finland, and another 10-ish around Leningrad, not enough to make a difference if Germany is done

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 10:12:47 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 182. December 7 1944. Red Army attention seems to be shifting north. Not many attacks down by Rumania.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 10:46:15 PM

Tarhunnas

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And major withdrawals in the North...

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 10:49:47 PM

Q-Ball

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Tarhunnas, you may have this covered already, but just in case: Make sure you have a German unit in the Romanian City of Arad.

If this flips to Soviet control via Romanian surrender, it could also cause Hungarian surrender immediately. (which would be disastrous of course)

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/4/2012 11:57:18 PM

M60A3TTS

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Well you've certainly blown past IdahoNYer and Scar in terms of the game timeline. Maybe we finally get to see some fighting in '45!

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 8:10:26 AM

krupp_88mm

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doing really great in terms of terr it seems, i would say, roughly 8-9 months ahead of historical timeline

you can see his lines are roughly at the mar-apr 1944 mark

< Message edited by krupp_88mm -- 1/5/2012 8:12:17 AM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 11:04:52 AM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Tarhunnas, you may have this covered already, but just in case: Make sure you have a German unit in the Romanian City of Arad.

If this flips to Soviet control via Romanian surrender, it could also cause Hungarian surrender immediately. (which would be disastrous of course)

Thanks for the heads up! I do happen to have a unit there, though I didn't know about that.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 11:09:20 AM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 183. December 14 1944. Nothing dramatic happening. A shot from the frount south of the marshes. An unlycky mountain division has been cut off and will be swallowed up by the Red tide, but such things are commonplace nowadays...

You can alse see the Eastern Rampart around Lvov, but I suspect it will just be a minor speedbump for Jolly Joes hordes when they reach it.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 11:13:27 AM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Well you've certainly blown past IdahoNYer and Scar in terms of the game timeline.��Maybe we finally get to see some fighting in '45!

I can guarantee you will see some scenes from '45. Wether there will be any fight left in me, i can't say...

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 11:43:52 AM

karonagames

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2 panzer Armies and 600k men will arrive in February - this will be the 7th Cavalry, but whether it will be too little too late remains to be seen.

edit: Have you considered a regimental checker board defence? Sacrificing a few ants to protect core units while they build your last line of defence. I did this when testing the 1944 campaign, and it allowed me to build a reasonable line on the Vistula.

edited edit: I also experimented with a "reverse linebacker" defence in 1944 which basically has a screen of regiments in front of a divisional line, with panzer units in reserve in the 3rd line. If he uses hasty attacks on the regiments, the panzers can come from reserve to cause holds,and prevent deliberate attacks on the Divisional line. This worked well for me against the AI but has not been tested against humans. It also reduces attrition losses, but these are pretty meaningless for you at the moment.

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 1/5/2012 12:50:20 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 1:58:05 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

2 panzer Armies and 600k men will arrive in February - this will be the 7th Cavalry, but whether it will be too little too late remains to be seen.

edit: Have you considered a regimental checker board defence? Sacrificing a few ants to protect core units while they build your last line of defence. I did this when testing the 1944 campaign, and it allowed me to build a reasonable line on the Vistula.

edited edit: I also experimented with a "reverse linebacker" defence in 1944 which basically has a screen of regiments in front of a divisional line, with panzer units in reserve in the 3rd line. If he uses hasty attacks on the regiments, the panzers can come from reserve to cause holds,and prevent deliberate attacks on the Divisional line. This worked well for me against the AI but has not been tested against humans. It also reduces attrition losses, but these are pretty meaningless for you at the moment.

Regiments or divisions - it doesn't make much difference, they're all CV1. So I use the double or triple ant-line, with the occasional SS unit with 3 or 4 in CV as stiffener in the second line and occassionally in reserve. It seems to be holding up better than I expected the last few turns. I am steadily giving ground a hex or two per turn.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 1/5/2012 2:03:04 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 184. December 21 1944. Snow.

The Red Army is breaking into Romania, but not exactly with overwhelming forces. I don't contest them very strongly, I don't want German units cut off down near Braila or Galati. The Rumanians are still on the right side however. The few Rumanian units that are left are often found at the most dangerous parts of the front, just where the strongest Soviet units are. We appreciate this willingness to prove their valor!

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