RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 8:02:41 AM

Fishbed

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I see a Tank Corps and two Tank Brigades north of Boguchar... Does it mean someone is preparing a big tank battle? If some infantry goes in too, it could actually become threatening to your spearhead. No Stalingrad here... for now

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 5:46:50 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

I see a Tank Corps and two Tank Brigades north of Boguchar... Does it mean someone is preparing a big tank battle? If some infantry goes in too, it could actually become threatening to your spearhead. No Stalingrad here... for now

The Soviet tank units there are shadows of their former selves, my panzers have kicked them around a bit. The infantry there though, could be a threat. My panzers are not so hot either, as you can see from the CVs. Here is a closeup of the area.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/15/2011 5:48:28 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 6:00:08 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 58.

The Soviets have recommenced their offensive at Taganrog, but it does not look too much of a problem yet. For the benefit of doubters about the prowess of our Italian allies, the Propaganda Ministry have selected this picture. Map before Axis moves.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 6:01:56 PM

Tarhunnas

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The Soviets have made strenous efforts to supply their trapped comrades in the big Kessel, but the Red Air Force is losing scores of bombers in the attempt.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 9:15:14 PM

Tarhunnas

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The advance in the center continues. The big pocket is still too much "al dente" for the weak infantry I have left guarding it to make any progress, so I let them stew. The Voronezh pocket however can easily be swallowed and digested. 35,000 calories ehh... prisoners. The Soviets are badly off balance, so I continue the advance to the east, and the panzer jaws close on two more Soviet groupings, this time with some Tank Corps in them. They will do fine for dessert.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 9:16:50 PM

Tarhunnas

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Closeup of the Tambov area. My panzers are somewhat the worse for wear, but we can't stop now when the going is good and the Sovs are reeling.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 9:21:26 PM

Tarhunnas

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And the south. The Soviets have resumed their offensive in the Taganrog area. A brisk counterattack by 17th army cuts off the Soviet spearhead, but the only unit able to exploit into the gap is the Italian motorized division. I have no great hopes for that, but let's give them a chance to prove themselves.

Reinforcements are trickling in to the area. Note the Panzer Corps from 4th Panzer army arriving by rail at the top. It will be able to either counterattack the Taganrog offensive, or move East to join up with the Tambov penetration to cut off still more Soviets.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 9:33:49 PM

Klydon

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Wow.. very clear he had no reserves set aside for a break through and also clear he has not adapted to the situation very well. I wonder how much is facing, say the Finns or other not very active sectors of the line. If he is 3 deep elsewhere, he needs to get a move on to get some reserves formed and try to stop the bleeding.

Well done Tarhunnas.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 9:53:09 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Wow.. very clear he had no reserves set aside for a break through and also clear he has not adapted to the situation very well. I wonder how much is facing, say the Finns or other not very active sectors of the line. If he is 3 deep elsewhere, he needs to get a move on to get some reserves formed and try to stop the bleeding.

Well done Tarhunnas.

The Soviets are not three deep elsewhere. The north is very quiet, though I think my aborted offensive just north of Moscow did attract some reserves, even if didn't do much else. The Soviets have also been pushing forward a hex here and there between Moscow and Tula. The map below is after extensive recon, so I think it fives a fair picture of Soviet dispositions.

My opponent, Gids, said he was not really surprised by me attempting the big pocket, but he was surprised at the speed I closed it. After that I think the Soviets have simply been unbalanced, and in contrast to 1941, there is not a lot of reinforcements coming in, so once reserve armies are committed any response to breakthroughs has to be taken from the front, which makes it slower to get them into postition.

That said I do think the Soviets could maybe have started to thin out the Moscow - Tula area to meet my breakthrough a turn or two ago. There are also considerable forces in the Crimea that don't do much right now, but getting them anywhere else will take lots of time.

Overview of front after Axis moves.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/15/2011 9:59:33 PM

Tarhunnas

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Losses and OOB after turn 58.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 7:28:05 AM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 59.

The southern encirclement is broken, but the others hold. The Sovites are trying to wriggle out of the northern near-encirclement. At the same time massive Soviet reinforcements are arriving to the area. Note now only single line north of Tula. Map before German moves.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 7:32:38 AM

Tarhunnas

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Map after German moves. New encirclement in the north and two Soviet Tank Corps surrounded near Tambov. The southern kessel is resealed. However, it is a juggling act, my mobile divisions are weak and tired and Soviet strength is increasing. I expect one or more of the encirclements to be broken by Soviet counterattacks. The Soviets are regaining their balance, and after this turn I think I should stop and rest and reorganise.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 7:34:34 AM

Tarhunnas

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Losses turn 59. The Soviets are losing more than 150,000 men each turn now, mostly captured. That must tell. They have also been losing significant numbers of tanks the last two turns, now that the Tank Corps are engaged.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/16/2011 7:36:39 AM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 2:56:19 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Losses and OOB after turn 58.

You might have a really good chance of winning in this game... the Soviets suffered heavy losses (including key towns) and their tank strength is very very very low...

Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 5:37:43 PM

Q-Ball

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Tarhunnas, did you capture Tank Factories? I wouldn't expect the Soviets to run low on tanks if you have full production.

By this stage, he should be producing 225 T-34s, 64 KV-1s, and piles of T-70s; probably 400+ a turn

...unless you toasted some of his tank production

(Note: You have toasted alot of my production, but I did get the tanks moved.....)

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 5:53:53 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Tarhunnas, did you capture Tank Factories? I wouldn't expect the Soviets to run low on tanks if you have full production.

I think I got the tank factory in Kharkov. Not sure about the one in Leningrad.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/16/2011 5:56:16 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

CAMPAIGN ASSESMENT AND PLANS

OKH has now made an assesment of progress so far in the campaign.

* Soviet casualties are about 3.2 million, and with the expected haul from the Vyzhni Volocheck pocket they should reach well over 3.5 million.

* Industry destroyed is
Kremetchug
Ordzhonikidzegrad
Nikolaev
Kursk
Tula
Kalinin
Leningrad
Stalino
Mariupol
Kharkov
Makeevka

This is a substantial achievement. OKH estimates that the capture of the KV factory in Leningrad and the T34 factory in Kharkov should be a crippling blow to Soviet tank production. Likewise, the destruction of much of the Soviet armaments production will hinder rebuilding of infantry and artillery.

Apparently I did. (Always fun to quote oneself. At least I know it's an authoritative source

)

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 6:51:32 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 60. August 6 1942.

Most of the pckets hold. Only the southern pocket is reopened by Soviet counterattacks. I am still digesting the big pocket. Map before Axis moves turn 60 with isolated units shown.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 7:11:46 PM

Tarhunnas

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The Soviet offensive at Taganrog continues. A happy spell of summer mud will hopefully put a damper on that effort next turn. Who said the Germans can't benefit from random weather?

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 9:02:01 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gids

my thoughts
well the openings were pretty much standart ,pittifully enough i didnt use tulius his strategy to actually flood in reinforcements instead of retreating,maybe it would,have helped,i do think so,atm im playing against another aggresive opponent and that strategy worked really well
now if you play against tarhunnas ,theres tbh then only 1 thing you can do watch and see how everything gets ripped by the panzers,theres not really a stopping to it , tarhunnas brings it pretty much to a new level with HQ buildup,i noticed he was so fast i couldnt bring the reinforcements fast enough to the frontlines to hold him ,plus he sacrifices more or less units to bring down industry(SS panzer unit),maybe gamey but its a good strategy ,because the cost of a panzerunit in the game doesnt outweight the industry a SU player losses,a good german player knows if youre fast ,then the SU player will NEVER have the time nor railcap to bring the industry in safety,i had to make a choice and i tried to save leningrad ,which costed me
Now its blizzard and i dont have the armaments to get the units on strenght to make attacks in the blizzard so most likely im pretty much doomed,but i will not give up,coming turns the only thing i can do is try to attack here and there with units who are a bit on strenght ,i wish SU could merge units to bring divisions on strenght
Now because i know he will punch through my understrenght units i choose to save the rmainder of my heavy industry areas to safer parts,on the short term it will cost me ,ive never done that so ill see what it brings, i rather have damaged industry then lost industry at this point,atm im more busy already to fasten my seatbelt for the summer of 42,on weak spots behind the lines making carpets of units ,no forts (cant miss the arms),im not even strong enough to get back moscou

Gids, I think you underestimate the power and capabilities of the Soviet side. Personally, don't take offense as it's more credit to your opponent, but you just got outplayed and were out-classed. Allowing him to destroy so much of your army over and over and over again is not good. He's just more experienced than you. It happens, but you'll learn. I suggest looking at some better Soviet player's AARs, there's plenty. You'll do better next game as Soviets I'm sure. There's a learning curving to each side. Steeper for an axis player, but each has one.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 9:34:04 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Gids, I think you underestimate the power and capabilities of the Soviet side. Personally, don't take offense as it's more credit to your opponent, but you just got outplayed and were out-classed. Allowing him to destroy so much of your army over and over and over again is not good. He's just more experienced than you. It happens, but you'll learn. I suggest looking at some better Soviet player's AARs, there's plenty. You'll do better next game as Soviets I'm sure. There's a learning curving to each side. Steeper for an axis player, but each has one.

Gids will not be reading this til the game is over, I suggest you PM him.

Thanks for the nice comments BTW. I don't feel all that great right now, Q-ball is kicking my ass in the winter offensive in my other AAR.

< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/20/2011 9:37:43 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 9:42:21 PM

Tarhunnas

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Situation after German moves, turn 60.

Pockets were cleared, but that took a lot of energy, and the panzers need a little rest and reorganisation, so not much happening offensively. The southeastern pocket is reestablished.

I have pulled most of the panzers down to the southeast. I don't really intend to continue north, the attack there was just to pocket some Soviets and secure the northern flank. The next phase will be an advance towards Stalingrad - Saratov, if Soviet resistance allows it. There is a lot of industry in that area, and even the threat of an advance will force the Soviets to evacuate it, which would shut down the last big tank factory for a while.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 9:45:07 PM

Tarhunnas

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Losses turn 60. Soviet losses in the pockets are staggering. I don't think I have inflicted so high Soviet losses in men in one turn ever, not even in 1941.

Edit: No, that was hyperbole. The Soviets lost 900,000 men in the first three turns in this game, so I was wrong.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/20/2011 9:49:35 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 9:46:57 PM

Tarhunnas

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Destroyed units turn 60. The German units destroyed is me disbanding a lot of unnecessary forts from the winter lines.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/20/2011 10:05:08 PM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 9:54:37 PM

Klydon

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157 units in 5 turns. Even though there are a fair number of support units in that, losing 54 infantry divisions, 3 infantry corps, 4 tank corps and 1 cav corps in the last two turns alone is a staggering amount of counters coming off the table. Looks like more will be coming off the table based on units being surrounded on turn 60 as well.

I think this highlights what the Germans have to try to accomplish in 1942 in order to be successful. At this point, German victory is assured. The only question left would be what level of victory.

Well done sir!

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/20/2011 10:03:30 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I think this highlights what the Germans have to try to accomplish in 1942 in order to be successful. At this point, German victory is assured. The only question left would be what level of victory.

Yes. But even with these losses, the Soviet army is still formidable, and the German army is worn down. I am not at all certain I can reach Stalingrad. I will certanly not put myself in a dangerous situation trying to reach it.

I agree a German victory seems likely, but I don't think I will be able to reach a decisive victory, I need 42 points more for that, which means clearing the west bank of the Volga, or bursting down into the Caucasus, and I can't really see that happening.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/23/2011 6:35:27 PM

Q-Ball

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No updates? I need some advanced intel!

That 1942 summer offensive is pretty impressive. Even if you have to halt short of Stalingrad, that's alot of dead Reds, and it's a very very long way to Berlin from Voronezh.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/23/2011 7:27:56 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

No updates? I need some advanced intel!

Hehe! You have an advantage there

. Gids has been away, thats why it's been quiet for a while. But it's coming.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/23/2011 7:37:34 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 61.

The evil Soviets have once again mustered a counterattack and broken the pocket!

It seems it doen't matter how many you kill, there will always be new ones.

Well, let's see the bright side, more of them to encircle!

Map after recon but before German moves. Note that the German panzers are a bit tired...

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/24/2011 7:05:23 AM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 61, August 13 1942.

Situation after Axis moves. The pace of advance is slowing down. Many of my mobile divisions are low on CVs, so I have put a lot of them on refit. I like the new refit mechanism, where you have to pull a unit out of line to rest and refit.

A limited advance to the southeast, reselaing the pocket and trapping a couple of additional Soviet divisions.

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