TPM
Posts: 349
Joined: 2/8/2007
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These Germans have indeed totally awesome words, like Gewerbesteuerzerlegungserklärung. There's one lying on my desk in the office, and I don't want to think about it.
But on topic. People seem to ignore the inherent problems with auto reinforce systems. There ought to be two different types of these imaginable:
A) When selecting a unit, the options panel shows a button "auto-reinforce" to bring it back to full template strength.
B) Each round, HQs reinforce subordinate units automatically to full template strength.
B can be discarded right away under Advanced Tactics, since reinforcing a unit ends that units turn automatically. This will hurt the player in about nine of ten cases. If something's under attack and suffered casualties it might be a better idea to do something about it rather than to send more sheep into the hail of gunfire. It would also kill XPs in a veteran unit and cause many more issues.
Not sure where in this thread anyone has suggested that the HQ's just send out reinforcements automatically without the player's input...I know I've never said it, and I am totally in favor of the "template/reinforcement" system. So to clear this up, the proposed reinforcement system would not happen "each round" on its own, sending out replacements to units under attack, unused garrison units, blah, blah. I'm actaully a bit baffled that you even thought people were suggesting that. I envisioned it as an OPTION, a button on the HQ that you could use if you wanted to. Now, that being said, although I believe this could be useful, I do agree that there are complications with sending out reinforcements automatically from the HQ, so I'll put this one aside for now...
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A would give you the option to reinforce a unit which has suffered under the enemy's attack on the interturn back to full template strength. So, if it would have been a unit designed for defense against infantry, the template would call for 30 infantry and 5 machineguns in the unit, plus 5 horses for mobility. The evil enemy has attacked and there were some losses: now only 20 infantry, 2 machineguns and 3 horses are left. The player hits auto-reinforce now, the lowest HQ in the chain of command would be called for to send down 10 infantry, 3 machineguns, and 2 horses.
Yes, this is exactly how I imagine it would work.
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But too bad, only 5 infantry and 2 horses are available. The enemy has attacked elsewhere and has taken one of the towns producing for the HQ. So, no more reinforcements for now.
And? So far, nothing different from the present way...the player would look to see what he has in his HQ (just like the present system) and decide to reinforce or not. If he felt that it would be simpler to do it with the present system, he could do it. Again (for about the millionth time) the proposed system would be optional...press the reinforcement button at your own peril...if you think you might not have enough troops in your HQ, check it out. Wouldn't you do that with the present system? The proposed system won't make everyone brain dead.
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Let's say the next higher HQ has a reserve of 30 infantry and 20 horses. But the infantry is of the wrong type (rifle instead of SMG or whatever), and even worse: sending down reinforcements from here right into the wounded unit would cause disruption again, killing readiness and so on. So should be this second HQ in the chain of command be called at all? Well, maybe you could define this over an additional button or box to check in the formation template.
OK, I think the problem here is that you're thinking of the template all wrong...it's just a tag that would tell the computer what the unit wants, that's all. If the next higher HQ has the "wrong type" of infantry, so what? You could send them anyway using the present system...I don't really understand you're point, unless, as I've said, you're thinking of the templates wrong, like some kind of fixed amount that the unit has to have, and it can't have other SFTypes? And also, how is sending reinforcemtns to the wounded unit any different than it is now in the present system? How is that "even worse"? Are you saying that that doesn't happen in the present system? There is no need for an additional button...in fact since we're talking about it, here's what would happend after you press the button:
HQ has 30 Rifle, 12 MG, 4 Fighters and 6 Trucks
Options:
Send replacements to fill template
Go to next higher HQ
Cancel
And what if there isn't enough transport? You get this message:
HQ only has enought transport to send 5 Rifle. Send anyway?
Notice how the player would be given a choice?
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But should be the "wrong" infantry type be sent down as reinforcements? Wait, let's define it over an additional button or box to check in the formation template. But of course there are different situations all the time, so better add an additional box to check for the HQ in question which overrides the template box. Or shouldn't it? Add another box to check here, too.
Nope, no need for additional buttons...you can put whatever you want into a unit that has a template tag, it doesn't matter. If your unit has a template tag of 20 Rifle, 3 MG, and at the moment it has 10 Rifle and 2 AT guns, if you press the reinforce button, you would get 10 Rifle and 3 MG...and if you wanted to put something else in there you could do that too. When you press reinforce, the computer would just try to fill the unit with what its template requires, that's it. It won't care what else you have in there. So no problem here, still only one button.
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Oh, waitwaitwait! The top level HQ has 215 of the "right" infantry type in reserve! Should those be sent down, causing disruption, consuming tons of landcap and so on? Add a few more buttons and another box there. Of course, there are other fronts as well that need reinforcements, so maybe we'd need another option to disable this and that ...
Nope, no need for more buttons here either. Again, it would be the player's choice whether to send reinforcements...somehow you're on this track that this proposed system would be forcing players to send replacements...not sure where you're getting that idea, but that's not what it would do at all. In the unit screen, you would press a reinforcement button, knowing full well what it will do...see my above example for how it would work. Still, one reinforcement button, no option boxes yet.
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Of course these template editors, 20 additional buttons and 60 boxes to check flowing all over the screen would be entirely optional and could easily be turned off with this button there in the far left bottom corner of the screen.
Nope, just one button on the unit screen is what I'm thinking.
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Terrible system, thoroughly terrible. This will never end, as soon as you run out of reinforcements to possibly cover all things and casualties that can happen to you between turns. Don't tell me you're too lazy to look after your units after the AI's turn is finished. You would still have to even with this terrible system. The current system of manual reinforcements is working well enough (I don't say it's perfect, what then again life in itself sucks and is far from being even remotely enjoyable, let alone perfect), and I'd suggest to keep it this way, not as an option, but mandatorily.
It's not a terrible system, and someone with artistic flair and programming skills could come up with something elegant and functional. I believe something like this would be an improvement to the game, if done right, and done in the spirit of the game...I am in total agreement that a complicated system of reinforcement is not what this game needs, and I want to make the point to anyone who's made it this far in the post(!) that what Westheim is describing above is not what I have in mind at all. Yes, for an island hopping game with transports, sea power, etc., this system is not needed, so you wouldn't use it. But for those big East Front scenarios, this system would be awesome...think of all those divisions...it's the second turn and you're the Germans, and you want to bring everyone up to strength. Click on an infantry division, click reinforce, done. Click on a tank division, click reinforce, done. Want one more tank in that division? Go for it. Or maybe you like this: "OK, 3rd Infantry Division, let's see, 23 Rifle, so that means he lost 7, so I'll replace 7, and then I'll add some MG's...oh man, gotta replace some horses too...but gotta find his HQ first...OK, 56th Pz Div. lost one tank, OK, replace one tank, oh, and some scouts too...how many did he begin with? Good thing I only have 178 more divisions to go..."
If you're into that fine, but not me. I know what I want in my divisions and if I know for a fact that my HQ's can distribute, than I prefer the proposed system.
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RE: Proposal for formation templates - reducing micro m... - 
. And so I endorse it.
RE: Proposal for formation templates - reducing micro m... - 
Still no one likes my idea of a simple 'copy' button to speedily create x identical units? 
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