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Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 8:12:43 AM   
crazyjohn

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 12/14/2010
Status: offline 		I know the game itself is heavy on micromanagement thats the kind of game it is but things like creation of units and reinforcing etc really become time consuming and tiring.For example i have game with 6 hq about 15 units under command of each just to build those units from the pool of forces which are immediately available to be deployed is a click fest and can take a toll on the attention span let alone reinforcing them all.It would be so much easier if we could create a unit template and just create from that instead without the clicking though each unit in turn and transferring sub formations which is very time consuming when you have a big army in the making.

How do you guys deal with the mind numbing process of building > 5 units at one time made up of 5-6 different sub formation types ?
Post #: 1
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 8:45:31 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I just do it. My Infantry units almost always have 8 subtypes while my armor is around 4. Headquarters vary depending on if I make them able to at least stop a token attack.

If templates are added it would need to be a player built system. No two people make the same units. I have 2 types. I usually make units with close to 100 stack points, currently experimenting with 50 stack points to see if that is something I want to do.

(in reply to crazyjohn)
Post #: 2
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 9:16:50 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		I'm trying to see what works best for Brigades, as Divisions are just too big in my opinion. I used to make Brigades with 33 infantry, 10 machine guns, 5 mortars, now I have brigages with 9-22 Infantry ( depending on nationality), 6 mortar and 6 machine guns and their stack points are less than 100. It also seems as though they work better for what I do.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 3
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 9:52:23 AM   
EmTom

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 5/25/2011
Status: offline 		Same here... I've been experimenting with brigade/division levels and I think infantry division with stack points close to 100 is ok. When I need more maneuverability I split such units to 3 make them brigades with 30-50 stack points. I still try to figure it out for armor units but for now I think 4 tanks/armored cars with 10-20 infantry works ok. I also use support units like AT inf. These are rather small for example 10 bazooka + 10 rifle and they support other units and never fight alone.

I would love to read more about your favorite units! :)


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Post #: 4
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 9:53:04 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Infantry types ( all of them) are 1 stack point. My current Division is 30 Infantry, 7 MG, 7 Mortar and 6 bazooka with 5 horses.

Do not forget the AI likes to put 10 to 20 Armored cars in a single unit. Armored cars have a stack of 5 so 20 of them does not exceed the 100 unit stack for attack.

My larger division is 45 Infantry, 5 MG, 5 mortar, 5 bazooka, 2 Infantry gun, 1 AT gun, 1 Flak and 10 horses.

My armor changed to 2 light tank and 3 Medium tanks. Usually it is 2 armored cars, 2 light tanks, 2 medium tanks and 20 Infantry. I make a recon unit now with 2 Armored cars and 4 light tanks.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 5
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 9:58:18 AM   
EmTom

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 5/25/2011
Status: offline 		Hmm... my recon unit was 2 armored cars + 10 rifle, but its recon points count is too low. They can spot enemy but give next to no details. I would prefer not to use tanks in recon units as every tank adds only 1 point of recon. Armored cars are much better with 10 points if I remember correctly. I guess you wanted your recon units to have some punching power and I use mine for recon and support only...

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 6
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 11:33:21 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I took the Armored cars out of the Armor Divisions so needed to create a recon unit. My Corps under this OOB is 4 Armor Divisions, 2 recon Brigades and 2 Mec Divisions. I leave the Artillery for the Armor if it needs it at the Army level. Every Army has 4 to 6 Corps and 3 Artillery Divisions.

(in reply to EmTom)
Post #: 7
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 11:40:18 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I play against the AI ( usually plus) It has units with 6 to 18 Armored cars in it. With Gold I have yet to see a Lt Tank or Md Tank from a random game. But I make the largest map and only one opponent ( AI plus) and the hidden boxes ( AI Plus Plus) I put a lot of effort into Technology.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 8
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 11:58:10 AM   
gravyface_

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/21/2007
Status: offline 		Jumping in here, can I ask: when you say "7 MG, 5 Bazooka" what does the integer represent? A company? Just an abstract "strength" value?

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 9
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 12:04:30 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		My numbers are the number of that sft type in the UNIT. So 5 MG would be just what it says.

(in reply to gravyface_)
Post #: 10
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/1/2011 6:12:47 PM   
mgaffn1

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 11/20/2009
Status: offline 		To answer crazy johns question about handling the mind numbing process of building multiple units:
having played many hours of the Hearts of Iron series, and enjoyed most of them, maybe I'm desensitized to much of this logistical stuff....
or maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
I do like to experiment with unit size and composition, and see how the variables play out.

Either way, I try to play on medium sized maps - that usually lands me with forces comprising of anywhere from 40-70 divisions. Anything bigger than that does make my head hurt...

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 11
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/2/2011 12:09:32 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I've felt the OP's pain a bit, but love the flexibility too much to give up control. But maybe an easier option will be offered in a patch if demand is high enough. Most old AT players are used to the workload.

(in reply to mgaffn1)
Post #: 12
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/2/2011 12:23:38 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		I have increased the weight of the infantry to 10 when I play, since I hate seeing a infantry brigade with a mortar or machinegun symbol. If there is another way to do this so when I have a infantry Brigade it shows instead of another that would be great.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 13
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/2/2011 12:24:56 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		That is the few problems I have with ATG, is that they are not defined what these units represent, either company, battalion or higher.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 14
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/2/2011 1:41:35 AM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Actually it would seem to be any size you want it to be. 1 infantry could be a platoon, company or battalion depending on the situation and scenario?

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 15
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/2/2011 8:45:54 AM   
EmTom

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 5/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

That is the few problems I have with ATG, is that they are not defined what these units represent, either company, battalion or higher.


It's up to you General lion_of_judah. You are free to create any army you like! Call your units bands or hordes if you like and no one will complain about it. :)

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I'm with you since People's Tactics and I love it!

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Post #: 16
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/2/2011 9:23:11 AM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

That is the few problems I have with ATG, is that they are not defined what these units represent, either company, battalion or higher.


It seems to me that infantry is presented in company level, and almost everything else are battalions.

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The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

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(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 17
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/3/2011 3:49:53 AM   
Jaq Pike

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/3/2011
Status: offline 		enjoyed these discussions, and the offshoot about experimenting with units. Just hearing some of these musings adds fun to my game. I thought I was missing some information as I tried to learn how to play and was mixing and matching, but it looks like everyone does it, and enjoys the open-ended creativity of the process. Cool.

I too have been wondering, in my first week with the game, about the "scale"....are these hexes 100 km, 1000? are the units squads, individuals? It looks like turns are a complete month (!!), so if that is the scale, some estimate is probably built in by the designer of how much these units are, and how far they are travelling?? Anybody have any guesses?



(in reply to JJKettunen)
Post #: 18
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/3/2011 9:17:00 AM   
EmTom

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 5/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jaqpike
I too have been wondering, in my first week with the game, about the "scale"....are these hexes 100 km, 1000? are the units squads, individuals? It looks like turns are a complete month (!!), so if that is the scale, some estimate is probably built in by the designer of how much these units are, and how far they are travelling?? Anybody have any guesses?


I think these values are not mentioned in the manual because they can vary in different scenarios a lot.


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I'm with you since People's Tactics and I love it!

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Post #: 19
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/3/2011 1:44:41 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		@jagpike, there is no set mapscale, it differs from scenario to scenario, so one hex can be 500 mtr,1 km or 10 km.

@ CrazyJohn. building 5-6 units at a time with different subunits can be clickheavy, here is how I do it; create 5 new units after each other (so they're still empty shells) then click on say Inf troops and decide how many you want to have per unit, and then fill all five units with Inf men. You can click on the small window in the upper right screen to select a new unit ( it goes a bit brighter), then repeat with say AT guns, fill all five units, then with the next sub-unit, till they're all filled up.
So I don't create just one new unit at a time, but five at a time.
It's still click heavy though... although it can be a luxury and a relief to finally be able to create five new units LOL

(in reply to EmTom)
Post #: 20
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/4/2011 8:38:48 AM   
crazyjohn

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 12/14/2010
Status: offline 		On big maps the task of creating multiple unit counters is even more boring because of the shear number of units required to build your army think how much easier it would be if you could select "standard infantry template A" from a template menu to build for example then click "create unit counter from template button" then point on a hex destination and click job done think you much time you would save in a game if that feature was added.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 21
RE: Excessive micromanagement - 6/4/2011 2:20:58 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyjohn

On big maps the task of creating multiple unit counters is even more boring because of the shear number of units required to build your army think how much easier it would be if you could select "standard infantry template A" from a template menu to build for example then click "create unit counter from template button" then point on a hex destination and click job done think you much time you would save in a game if that feature was added.


On big maps with lots of units that would be a certified +1. It would save you lots of clicks indeed.

(in reply to crazyjohn)
Post #: 22
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