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Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 2:37:17 PM   
Arigoth

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Is it a reasonable strategy to build up the HI closer to where the resources/fuel are then to bring all of it back to the great homeland of the rising sun and risking the run through the dasterdly allied sub nets?
Post #: 1
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 2:48:59 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		No.

IMHO you need to mazimize Japan's production with all the resources/fuel you have available regardless of where it is. In game terms, Fuel is the resource that matters the most as I have found that resourse are not much of an issue. So build up as large as you can as fast as you can. As the war goes on and your transport capacity becomes less, you can always turn off different factories in order to save HI points.  Why limit yourself when in all of '42 US subs will be the weakest of the entire war? You would give up a years worth of expansion to avoid issues that most likely will not have an impact until late '43/early '44?

(in reply to Arigoth)
Post #: 2
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 3:07:47 PM   
Arigoth

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		I agree that fuel is the real issue here. resource points are amassing quite nicely. My thought process (faulty or not) is HI points are global and don't have to be transported. Why not build them where the fuel is (singapore, Saigon, etc) rather than transport the fuel/resources back to Japan to accomplish the same thing? and use up fuel in the process of just transporting fuel.

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Post #: 3
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 3:36:19 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Because of the cost. It is too expensive to build up your industry... and then have the Allies take it from you. If your conquests allow you to increase your HI, I would suggest building it in Manchuria instead, and only in small, controlled increases.

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Post #: 4
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 3:44:04 PM   
vonTirpitz


Posts: 511
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Wilmington, NC
Status: offline 		To a small extent it is probably worth expanding some HI in these remote locations to optimize production but they will also probably be the first to get bombed into oblivion and recaptured. IMHO, putting all your HI in outlying regions would be a blessing to an Allied opponent.

Also, as the Japanese you will likely run into supply shortages in these far off locations and expanding industry there will simply compound this problem. Building up locations like Singapore and Hong Kong will drain supply you need for combat in China and Burma.

The home islands generate the most supply so building up there is the most economical. Outbound convoys taking supply to the fronts and returning with raw materials will keep you pretty busy. At some point after 1944, the Home Islands will likely become your final bastion so you can more readily defend what you have built there.

No matter how you choose to handle your economy I would recommend that:

1. Major expansion takes place primarily in the first 6 months of the war (After that it becomes a matter of dimishing returns).
2. Do not build or repair LI, Resource Centers or Manpower after the first 6 months (check after each new conquest).
3. Burma is always at risk so you should carefully consider whether or not it is worth spending supplies to repair any industry there.
4. Do not commit to large expansions or expand too many factories at once (you will run through your surplus of supply when you still need it most for military expansion).
5. Develop a plan for what you want to have stockpiled 1944 because things WILL get harder from that point forward.
6. Use the Tracker utility to monitor the overall health of your economy and make minor adjustments as you progress.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

I agree that fuel is the real issue here. resource points are amassing quite nicely. My thought process (faulty or not) is HI points are global and don't have to be transported. Why not build them where the fuel is (singapore, Saigon, etc) rather than transport the fuel/resources back to Japan to accomplish the same thing? and use up fuel in the process of just transporting fuel.



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Post #: 5
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 4:24:20 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Because of the cost. It is too expensive to build up your industry... and then have the Allies take it from you. If your conquests allow you to increase your HI, I would suggest building it in Manchuria instead, and only in small, controlled increases.

Not sure I agree with this. Fuel movement into deepest, darkest Manchuria can be tricky sometimes and is not always present at the bases in sufficient quantity to provide fuel to HI. It doesn't take too many fuel 'outages' before that move becomes more trouble than it's worth.

HI expansion in Singapore, Hong Kong and Canton are pretty low risk, IMO. By the time these are captured or destroyed by the Allies, the game will be in its late stages.

_____________________________


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Post #: 6
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 4:26:30 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonTirpitz

To a small extent it is probably worth expanding some HI in these remote locations to optimize production but they will also probably be the first to get bombed into oblivion and recaptured. IMHO, putting all your HI in outlying regions would be a blessing to an Allied opponent.

Also, as the Japanese you will likely run into supply shortages in these far off locations and expanding industry there will simply compound this problem. Building up locations like Singapore and Hong Kong will drain supply you need for combat in China and Burma.

The home islands generate the most supply so building up there is the most economical. Outbound convoys taking supply to the fronts and returning with raw materials will keep you pretty busy. At some point after 1944, the Home Islands will likely become your final bastion so you can more readily defend what you have built there.

No matter how you choose to handle your economy I would recommend that:

1. Major expansion takes place primarily in the first 6 months of the war (After that it becomes a matter of dimishing returns).
2. Do not build or repair LI, Resource Centers or Manpower after the first 6 months (check after each new conquest).
3. Burma is always at risk so you should carefully consider whether or not it is worth spending supplies to repair any industry there.
4. Do not commit to large expansions or expand too many factories at once (you will run through your surplus of supply when you still need it most for military expansion).
5. Develop a plan for what you want to have stockpiled 1944 because things WILL get harder from that point forward.
6. Use the Tracker utility to monitor the overall health of your economy and make minor adjustments as you progress.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

I agree that fuel is the real issue here. resource points are amassing quite nicely. My thought process (faulty or not) is HI points are global and don't have to be transported. Why not build them where the fuel is (singapore, Saigon, etc) rather than transport the fuel/resources back to Japan to accomplish the same thing? and use up fuel in the process of just transporting fuel.



Good post. Nice summary, vonTirpitz.

I think your #6 is optional. I'm able to run the Japanese economy reasonably well with the existing 'vanilla' screens provided through the game.

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Post #: 7
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 5:45:47 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Formosa might be a good location for increasing HI a small amount. Formosa is a good stop-over for convoys, is relatively well protected, and is halfway between the home islands and the SRA. You can unload all your SRA resources there, and have other convoys pick up the excess and take it the rest of the way to japan.

Just a thought.

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Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 8
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 5:51:20 PM   
Shellshock


Posts: 533
Joined: 12/31/2010
From: U.S.
Status: offline 		Would Korea be a good candidate for HI expansion? Or does that run into the same fuel problems as Manchuria?

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 9
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/25/2011 6:11:42 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Usually ports don't have fuel problem, but inland bases do. To keep Harbin, Peiping HI running is sometimes a real PITA.

Usually I expand HI centers in Singapore and Saigon etc. Not much though.

(in reply to Shellshock)
Post #: 10
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/26/2011 1:01:32 AM   
Arigoth

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Im thinking about singapore, hong kong, Shanghai. Saigon. for HI outside of the homeland. Now the question becomes, what should i shoot for on total HI?

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 11
RE: Heavy Industry - 6/26/2011 2:50:13 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

Im thinking about singapore, hong kong, Shanghai. Saigon. for HI outside of the homeland. Now the question becomes, what should i shoot for on total HI?


The general rule among old timers is: Never increase HI. Remember, the more you increase it, the more you have to feed it. Go 1 step too far and you can crash the whole economy. You will capture some along the way, be sure to use it, but don't get click happy when it comes to HI upgrades. Each HI center you have in a base eats up 20 resources and 2 fuel....In other words, it takes 1 resource center to feed a HI center. And in the newest beta patch, LI can not be turned off, so its going to eat 15 resrouces per LI point.

I think it may be very important to use the new stockpile feature for resources at the big HI bases (Tokyo, Osaka, etc).

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 12
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