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Great game but I need help - 7/16/2011 5:15:05 PM

highblooded

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/27/2004
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Hello,

I ordered the game immediately upon discovery and am as happy as a clam!

One question so far... I am trying out my third game(the first two being one turn mess arounds from both POV). Anywho... I noticed after turn one(as the Germans against Soviet AI in the '41 Campaign- Normal/100% settings) that I received around 20,000 casualties during the soviet turn(mostly disabled) even though he did not attack(except with minor air assaults). I have gone to turn 5 now and have noticed a consistant 20-25,000 casualties during each Soviet turn(without any attacks by AI/nothing destroyed). I am only taking maybe 5,000 casualties max during my turns attacks.

Any idea what is happening? WAD?

I have been reading some AARs and such but have not noticed this. Ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Post #: 1

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/16/2011 5:19:08 PM

lenin

Posts: 349
Joined: 1/19/2005
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I've only just got this game too, so I might be wrong. Your units suffer attrition losses when they are next to enemy units. This probably accounts for the casualties.

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Post #: 2

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/16/2011 6:36:16 PM

Balou

Posts: 841
Joined: 7/24/2009
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Manual 9.5, pp.169: wear & tear & low intensity combat along the whole front, with approximatly 70% of these attrition losses being disabled.

(in reply to highblooded)

Post #: 3

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/17/2011 1:55:34 AM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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In addition to front line attrition, some number of damaged elements are sent back to the pool each turn, and some can be destroyed due to supply/support situation. Even those returned to the pool will suffer some disabled manpower. So after lots of combat when lots of elements are damaged, you'll see the losses after the logistics phase as these damaged elements are sorted out.

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Post #: 4

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/17/2011 4:48:05 AM

PyleDriver

Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline

Welcome to war...lol...Sucks huh...

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Post #: 5

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/26/2011 7:40:59 AM

delatbabel

Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

Attrition losses are way too high in this game IMHO. If you see things from the Soviet side the attrition losses go up and up once you get into 43, basically disabling the entire army. I've stopped playing the game because of this, or I may go back to the 1.03 version (this was broken in 1.04). I'm hoping it gets fixed in an early 1.05 beta.

Basically your only option is to pull units out of the front each turn and put them on refit until they recover.

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Post #: 6

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/26/2011 9:34:42 AM

Tarhunnas

Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Attrition losses are way too high in this game IMHO. If you see things from the Soviet side the attrition losses go up and up once you get into 43, basically disabling the entire army. I've stopped playing the game because of this, or I may go back to the 1.03 version (this was broken in 1.04). I'm hoping it gets fixed in an early 1.05 beta.

Basically your only option is to pull units out of the front each turn and put them on refit until they recover.

I think you are griping a little here. Sure, attrition has gone up over the versions, and I too have a feeling it might be on the high side, but it is certainly not a game breaker.

I must admit I have no idea what "realistic" attrition should be compared to the present level. The real disadvantage with attrition in a game perspective is the need for the player to rotate units out of the front and back, especially in 42 and onwards. While this might be realistic, it is repetitive and does not enhance the gameplay experience. IMHO a large part of attrition losses could be taken straight from replacements arriving, simulating all units getting new replacements to compensate for attrition, and doing away with the need for players to rotate units in and out of the front.

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Post #: 7

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/26/2011 1:28:59 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
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I have been messing around as a Russian for a bit and it is already bad on the attrition front in late 1941 and I agree with Tarunnas about the "game experience" of having to rotate units out that are otherwise in good supply just to go positive on replacements instead of rotting away. It is a lot of unnecessary clicking for the most part along with having to pretty much check every unit every turn, even if you don't plan on doing something in a certain sector.

Now, I could see an "extra penalty" to units that have their supply lines go through enemy zones of control while going through friendly units. This would accurately represent the difficulty of narrow salients when it comes to supply and replacements and such units probably should need to be rotated out on a routine basis.

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Post #: 8

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/27/2011 6:38:48 AM

delatbabel

Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Attrition losses are way too high in this game IMHO. If you see things from the Soviet side the attrition losses go up and up once you get into 43, basically disabling the entire army. I've stopped playing the game because of this, or I may go back to the 1.03 version (this was broken in 1.04). I'm hoping it gets fixed in an early 1.05 beta.

Basically your only option is to pull units out of the front each turn and put them on refit until they recover.

I think you are griping a little here. Sure, attrition has gone up over the versions, and I too have a feeling it might be on the high side, but it is certainly not a game breaker.

I must admit I have no idea what "realistic" attrition should be compared to the present level. The real disadvantage with attrition in a game perspective is the need for the player to rotate units out of the front and back, especially in 42 and onwards. While this might be realistic, it is repetitive and does not enhance the gameplay experience. IMHO a large part of attrition losses could be taken straight from replacements arriving, simulating all units getting new replacements to compensate for attrition, and doing away with the need for players to rotate units in and out of the front.

You're pretty close. The real disadvantage with attrition as it stands now is not just the need to rotate units out of the front and back, but also the need to continually activate all front line units because static units seem to suffer higher attrition, and also can't be placed into refit mode.

If refit and static mode were individual toggles that could be placed on units then I could step a static unit back from the front line hex and put it into refit mode without having to find the APs necessary to activate it.

In the 1941 campaign where the Soviets are able to build up a massive pool of APs early in the game to enable units to be put into and brought out of static mode at will, the attrition rules as they stand are a pest to deal with but manageable. In the 1942 and 1943 campaigns where the Soviets start with large parts of their front line in static mode, and those units can't even be placed into refit mode until activated, and the Soviets are short of APs, it makes the game unenjoyable and for me unplayable. If I'm continually forced into accountant mode to calculate each turn which units I have to spend APs on to activate to reduce attrition losses, then I may as well stay at work with my spreadsheets and cash forecasts because the game isn't any more fun to play than that.

Your suggestion to take attrition losses out of replacements arriving is a good one too, it doesn't really simulate history very accurately but does make the game a bit more playable.

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Post #: 9

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/27/2011 9:01:41 AM

Tarhunnas

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Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
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Yes, I can see the problems if starting with the 42 or 43 GC with lots of static units. I didn't think of that because it was some time since I played the 42 GC. I cam imagine having lots of static units go to 0 CV through attrition might be very frustrating.

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Post #: 10

RE: Great game but I need help - 7/28/2011 12:11:12 AM

Rosseau

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Post #: 11