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Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 2:54:52 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		EDIT on 2011.08.11 - latest version added all buildings have has height checked.
EDIT on 2011.08.19 - some tiles changed and urban location vegetation enhanced a bit.
EDIT on 2011.09.11 - changed the warehouse buildings into proper ones and other changes to buildings.
EDIT on 2011.09.18 - Muddy, rainy, foxholed version added maps updated.
EDIT on 2011.09.24 - Hungarian houses added.

Here is the latest version Dropbox link.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37180814/publicPCO/maps/puszta1.zip

Muddy, rainy, foxholed version.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37180814/publicPCO/maps/puszta1dugouts.zip


Mobius' Hungarian houses mod
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37180814/publicPCO/maps/MobiusHungarianHousesV2.zip

Dear all,

Here I post my first map. It is a flat terrain in the Hungarian Plains in october 44'.

Any feedback is welcome.



< Message edited by sztartur -- 9/24/2011 8:38:18 PM >

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"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu
Post #: 1
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 2:55:47 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Empty.

< Message edited by sztartur -- 8/3/2011 9:29:53 PM >

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"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

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RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 3:21:48 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Here is a sample scenario for this map. Extract the file to your Data\Scenarios folder. It will be in the Set Battle menu as 10/44 puszta test. It is one rifle platoon for each side.

Nice work on the railroad and lines. Good layout on the farms and factories.

The wheat and sunflowers were done before the grass system was added. It would probably look better and use less resources that way but they would not be persistent at high view.

Note: For the above zips, you need to extract the files from the second zip into the folder from the first zip then place that folder in your Media folder.

Attachment (1)

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 3:23:54 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		EDIT

Scenario moved to scenario subforum.




< Message edited by sztartur -- 8/11/2011 12:20:09 AM >

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

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Post #: 4
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 3:29:56 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
...
The wheat and sunflowers were done before the grass system was added. It would probably look better and use less resources that way but they would not be persistent at high view.
...


How would you suggest to do it?

I made a LOT of autogen vegetation :). All autogen structure type was set to NONE. I experience that tanks destroy vegetation as they pass.




_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

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Post #: 5
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 3:36:53 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I'll look around to see if we made an easy to understand tutorial for grasses. Maybe Rick will come in here and help out.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 6
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 3:39:55 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Besides wheat and sunflowers corn should be also available. There were a lot of corn fields in that area and I used sunflowers instead. 

< Message edited by sztartur -- 7/24/2011 3:40:06 PM >

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

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Post #: 7
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 3:50:36 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Page 62 of the Map Maker Guide is the appendix for the grass system. (Page 64 of the PDF) You should start out by only trying one type of grass to see if/how it works. Maybe make a new 500m map just for learning as that should load and build quicker than your 2k map.

Once you have success with it, you can actually take a 2D tree graphic and make it work like grass but tall. There is a terrain type "ImpassableWoods" that is for this. It lowers sighting by a factor of 3 and is impassable for all units. You can use this to make a dense forest that does not impact the computer as much as a forest of 3D trees.


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 5:28:38 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Nice map, Sztartur. I must admit I don't really like the wheat and the sunflowers. It looks too patchy. But all in all a very impressive first map. Well done!

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RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 5:33:12 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Not his fault, that is what the autogen does, just throw stuff at the map. He could spend the rest of his life lining them up in rows 

That is why I suggested the grass system. One section of sunflowers next to a house looks nice but the USSR had massive fields of them.


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 10
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 5:58:50 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Yes, I thought that much. Still, very impressive map for a debut. 

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RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/24/2011 6:35:55 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Well it is patchy as the system itself generates vegetation in a very random way. All one can do is set a high density then it will have less holes but it will also require a more powerful HW to run. At least this is what I have understood.

I can use the dds and graphics provided by the game I am not an artist i cannot make my own from scratch.


_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 12
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/29/2011 10:02:28 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
Dear all,

I studied in depth the grass system. Updated the map with wheat and sunflower field, forest undergrowth, grasses to other terrain types and added fences to the village.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacko

... I must admit I don't really like the wheat and the sunflowers. It looks too patchy. ...


Not patchy any more


PS: I believe I tried now everything in map maker except light weather and WATER.



_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 13
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 2:29:30 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I'll have a look as soon as I finish reading the forums.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 14
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 3:06:25 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Much better. Nice use of ground cover. I would only question the green wheat in fall unless it is a winter wheat that is normal to that area but certainly not a big issue.

I have an AMD dual core 3.0 g with 4 g DDR3 ram and an ATI HD 5670 1g video card. I took about 5 minutes to load the map. I was able to find a view that lowered the FPS to near 10. Most spots were in the 30-50 range. Adding a large force to the map could bring some computers to their knees. I did notice that some of your grasses are persistant, in other words they do not fade in and out as the view level is changed. I picked up a lot of FPS by turning off shadows, grass and trees. Half trees was a good compromise.

We look forward to seeing more of your work. Thanks for sharing. Maybe Erik can increase the amount of upload size or you could put it on dropbox and post the public link?


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 15
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 3:47:13 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Here is the map and the new scenario (with units on it and briefing and everything) in one zip at 11mb. It is for JSGME.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6754176/puszta.zip


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 16
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 7:49:53 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		I made some of the grass persistent on purpose. that is the wheat and sunflowers but their dispersion is much lower than the rest. Regarding winter wheat, not very common, but could happen that during the war not all fields could be harvested. I simply wanted to learn how to make wheat field :).

FOR MODDERS: PLEASE make me a corn3D.dds PLEASE!!!

I now found the color and tileset for the 44' fall Hungary set.

All in all MM is a bitch to learn and very user unfriendly but once you get used to and get to know each of the many pitfalls it offers and avoid falling into them, it can be very entertaining and rewarding.





_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 17
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 7:51:56 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		The tutorials of Mad Russian both here on the forum and on Youtube are very useful. 

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 18
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 10:30:56 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Played through 10 turns as Soviets. Looked at German side to see what they had first. AI has come mostly down the middle. I'm ahead ~45 to ~20

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 19
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 11:26:43 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		By turn 15 the heavies show up and start shooting back. 51 to 41. 3 flags each.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 20
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 11:33:51 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		At least someone is playing my scenario 

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 21
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 11:46:22 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Turn 20, 60 - 40. I hate those German you know whats.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 22
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/30/2011 11:49:01 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		C'mon they aren't that many. Your Stalins should kick @ss.

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 23
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/31/2011 12:33:02 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		After over 30 turns it was time to quit.

Spoiler
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
One KT remained, immobile in the middle. I lost a lot of tanks trying to take it out. Most remaining tanks were out of ammo. I could not manouver because the KT would just swing its turret and hit eveything that moved. It had many damage messages and just kept killing. Anything with a frontal shot could not penetrate. It was 61-51 when I quit.


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 24
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/31/2011 1:12:40 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Well I tried again advancing my last IS. Got it at 400m.

You have a lot of heavy woods without a break. Such as along the road on the left of the Soviet setup. Wheeled AFVs cannot cross heavy woods. My BAs on that side are stuck there.


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 25
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/31/2011 1:41:51 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		It took over 40 turns to get to a flag and flip the score. Final 62 to 38. I lost one T34 to 105 arty, my 122 took out a couple of 251s. That darn cat had 15 kills, 4 were infantry.

I wouldn't want to play this as Soviet vs a human.


_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 26
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 7/31/2011 8:39:01 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

I made some of the grass persistent on purpose. that is the wheat and sunflowers but their dispersion is much lower than the rest. Regarding winter wheat, not very common, but could happen that during the war not all fields could be harvested. I simply wanted to learn how to make wheat field :).

FOR MODDERS: PLEASE make me a corn3D.dds PLEASE!!!

I now found the color and tileset for the 44' fall Hungary set.

All in all MM is a bitch to learn and very user unfriendly but once you get used to and get to know each of the many pitfalls it offers and avoid falling into them, it can be very entertaining and rewarding.




I agree, Corn would be a nice addition to the vegetation types.

I like your map, but it is pretty CPU demanding. On my system I was getting down to 7-8 fps during the replay.

One suggestion for your map is that I would suggest changing the woods from Heavy to just Woods, or putting Woods terrain 'cutouts' so wheeled vehicles don't have the movement blocked.

Nice job on the getting your vegetation set up.

I only just played one turn so far.

Thanks for uploading this! I'm looking forward to your next one.

Rick

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 27
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 8/3/2011 5:52:47 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick
One suggestion for your map is that I would suggest changing the woods from Heavy to just Woods, or putting Woods terrain 'cutouts' so wheeled vehicles don't have the
I would make that suggestion too. There are strips of heavy woods terrain with a few sparce trees on them. Maybe putting the heavy woods in the middle of a woods area and having medium or light woods lining the roads.

I also found a structure that flipped on its side like a knocked over tree. So far I can't determine why.

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 28
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 8/3/2011 9:34:03 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Gentlemen,

Let all your wishes become true like this one .

Heavy woods changed to woods. I set up a dropbox account you find the link for the map in the first post.

PS: I have experienced the silo flip to the side once. I do not know why I ask for PCO guys help on this issue.



_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 29
RE: Map: Puszta1 - 8/3/2011 9:34:29 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		I hope now you find my map to be perfect .

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 30
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