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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 4:07:31 PM   
JJKettunen


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Status: offline 		"French troops unfixed" -event doesn't seem to work*. At least, not in the turn it is announced.

*excluding the regiment in Sevastopol

< Message edited by Keke -- 8/23/2011 4:08:19 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 4:14:27 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

"French troops unfixed" -event doesn't seem to work*. At least, not in the turn it is announced.

*excluding the regiment in Sevastopol


save please, and scriptreport. Thanks

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 4:22:11 PM   
JJKettunen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

"French troops unfixed" -event doesn't seem to work*. At least, not in the turn it is announced.

*excluding the regiment in Sevastopol


save please, and scriptreport. Thanks


Here ya go:

Attachment (1)

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

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Post #: 393
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 4:28:02 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Strictly from gaming point of view, I think the Greens are a bit too active in 1920. The problem is that when the Reds are in relatively weak position in 1920, Green revolts capturing several Red cities and regions can become a decisive factor, significantly easing the challenge for the SW. Now I understand that in the face of weakening Red power this is historically plausible, but it takes some fun away. Also I'd rather see one really big, well organized revolt with minor spreading around to other regions, than several mid-sized revolts crashing the Red logistics. I had to crush one revolt at Azor, but compared to the Red situation it was only a minor annoyance.

I do emphasize that this observation is made with wanting to keep the challenge up for last year or so for a successful SW-side.

....

Now that I remember to mention this: I think Makhno's forces are currently set to be too aggressive, which means that after their suicidal kamikaze-missions, usually made in bad weather, defeating them is quite easy. I'd adjust the aggressiveness down a notch or two, if possible.



ANA: I will tone down aggro indeed. Now I know they can be aggressive, I may lower the settings.

GRN: you're right, but I don't think I will. Many reasons: first, Reds aren't the only ones to suffer from Greens: Siberians too and a uncautious Southern Whites will have problems with them too. Then, as you mentioned, many green revolts are historical and FY is in this domain far below the reality. Historical situations was most of the map with small peasants and bandits bands roaming. One big insurrection wouldn't feel right. Moreover, Red player would get an huge bonus with only one big revolt. Last, this should need much scripting work with several dozens of events, and I believe I'm close to the level from which events system will become unworkable; I know a game full of details and events resulting in an endless succession of bugs, glitches, obscure for players outcomes

Now, you have played several games as Southern Whites. You're in 1920 when the game ends in January 22. The Red AI has resisted to you until this date and possibly your current game will end in 1921. You will be victorious, except some reversal due to an error commited by you. In any case, for an AI, sustaining as long against a good player, who has experience of former games with Southern Whites, is in itself for me a good result. Unless you convince me by other arguments, , I don't believe modifying historical settings is necessary. Even if I do it, the player will find sooner or later a way to win. An AI is doomed to lose, but in FY, it needs the player to really play the game, not only pushing 20 turns some stacks here and there.

Now, of course, I'm waiting your other points about

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 4:38:14 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Yes, you a right that getting favourable situation for the SW by 1920 is tough (credit to the AI!), and my experience helps a lot. As for the Green revolts, I have no other arguments.

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

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Post #: 395
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 4:46:41 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Yes, you a right that getting favourable situation for the SW by 1920 is tough (credit to the AI!), and my experience helps a lot. As for the Green revolts, I have no other arguments.



I would add a last point: Greens are weakening Red indeed byt they don't love Whites too. So some of the revolts in Red territories will have to be assessed by the expnading White player. FY is a game where overextending is always possible, with... fatal consequences.

Last, I've tried to build an AI able to defeat a player on the first game, then giving him real opposition in the following. I could build an invincible AI, it would suffice to help AI with some evnts giving more resources, men, and insights about enemy positions, or more VPs...Cheating possibilities are unfinite. But in the end, I prefer to have single player games giving real interest for PBEM. FY is PBEM too. But great PBEM games are needing solid single players games.

< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/23/2011 4:51:21 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 5:01:20 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		Last point: this discussion is for me almost the best commend for my work. When I see a game forum discussing both strategy and balance issues in a way related to the AI good performance, I know the game is possibly enjoyable. More cautious I am when a forum shows only bug reports, or explanations of rules, or filled with WAD ( WAD is necessary but repetition is highly suspect because it generally suggests some rules are arbitrary and difficult to understand or justify)...That's this sort of feedback which is helping me to do the same in SVF.

< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/23/2011 5:02:42 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 5:06:40 PM   
Chilperic


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Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		I've just achieved to read an interesting article about Freikorps. When the official version is just doing them a Southern Whites subfaction possibly going to Petrograd stacked with Yudenich, Balts and why not some British units, I'm proud mine has modelled Freikorp as an independant faction anoying Reds, Whites, France and Great Britains, with events following the historical course, with the Bermondt-Avalov final episode of failed conquest of Riga.

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 5:18:56 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Early January 1921: Tsaritsyn finally captured!

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

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Post #: 399
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 5:36:46 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Early January 1921: Tsaritsyn finally captured!



In a few months, you will remember how hard it was to capture Tzaritsyn

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 5:44:08 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

"French troops unfixed" -event doesn't seem to work*. At least, not in the turn it is announced.

*excluding the regiment in Sevastopol


Not a bug: the unfixing is random. Will be checked each turn the AIl is 13. You know, politicians are cautiously discussing, military leaders are writing memos about the risks involved by an active participation...

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 8:19:33 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		Keke, rejoice

I've made some changes to ANA AI, and I've modified a bit the AIL: it decreased much less than I planned. So, if you begin a new game with Whites, the AIl should be much more difficult to mainain after the first months of 1919...

Nex version soon, in the never achieved mod

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 8:30:45 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		New FY version

Available on my blog ( see my sig).

Compatible with ongoing games.



FY having reached now a very mature state, this new version is just:



- fixing bugs of the official version about some leaders

- improving a bit Poland and Anarchist AIs ( yes, theses factions are in FY independent and driven by AI, with some pretty good results for Poland, Freikorps, and even ANA, who were just too aggressive)

- worked a bit on game balance, with changes for AIL decrease rate.

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 8:37:07 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		ANd don't worry for the future: I'm very resilient I will do and maintain my AGE mods because I play them and I enjoy playing them. That's maybe the difference with others: knowing the scripting language and playing what I create

Wrangel AI has churned out in my game Kamenev Army in september 19 around Kharkov

< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/23/2011 9:09:22 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 9:12:27 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Downloading and rejoicing.

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

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Post #: 405
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/23/2011 9:38:40 PM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 536
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline 		I think when anarchists are done in FY then it is mostly complete versus Swhites &Reds.  Though maybe Siberians can be tested.
Thanks for your work and I have no doubt that you are not resilient about any problems in game that can appear


< Message edited by Baris -- 8/23/2011 9:40:26 PM >

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Post #: 406
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 8:10:04 AM   
Chilperic


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Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		Siberian and Southern Whites AI are yet to be maybe improved indeed. That's why I need remarks, critics and other reports I may reply. FY will never be achieved I don't care is some don't like or find bugs or errors: if justified I will fix them. The only point is good faith on both sides.

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Post #: 407
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 11:12:40 AM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		About AI in Fatal years:

At least, a recent Red AAR ( ;-) has opened my eyes on a fact: I never detailed what are my aims for AI in FY, beyond the attempt to get it better.



Fatal Years isn’t only an AI mod. He tries too, rightly or wrongly, to be more accurate, more historical.



Only great designs, like Hannibal, may succeed in being both historical and AI strong. I’ve not this gift.

I’ve chosen to have as first priority to introduce what I felt like needed historical facts. The second is to have the AI playing with the same rules than an human player.



To take one example, FY has solved the overpowered Siberian Whites unbalance described by some in the official game. The Siberian AI suffers the same penalties for the essential.

So, as I can’t create an AI better than a human player :-) , the AI performance must be assessed mainly against historical performance. In this sense, White AIs must be defeated by a rEd player before the end of 1920. I can’t even imagine a White AI able to win against a Red player. On the contrary, a White player surviving until 1922 has at least done better than in history.

I will never curb the reality or introduce cheating for AI to balance a game. To balance, it’s better for the player to choose to give bonus to AI( possible in the option settings) beyond the recommended +2 bonus for Fog of War .



On my own, I will certainly introduce, when I will have more data about real outcomes of game, a VP bonus for a side after the historical game. By example, it could be a bonus to Whites after 1920 in VP each turn. This would balance the game without altering the historical settings.

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 12:27:20 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

"French troops unfixed" -event doesn't seem to work*. At least, not in the turn it is announced.

*excluding the regiment in Sevastopol


Not a bug: the unfixing is random. Will be checked each turn the AIl is 13. You know, politicians are cautiously discussing, military leaders are writing memos about the risks involved by an active participation...


I can report that the probability for unfixing is very, very low. I've had AIL=13 for several months, I had used 50 EP to activate Frech and Greeks even earlier, but the forces at Odessa have remain fixed...

_____________________________

Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

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Post #: 409
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 12:36:43 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

"French troops unfixed" -event doesn't seem to work*. At least, not in the turn it is announced.

*excluding the regiment in Sevastopol


Not a bug: the unfixing is random. Will be checked each turn the AIl is 13. You know, politicians are cautiously discussing, military leaders are writing memos about the risks involved by an active participation...


I can report that the probability for unfixing is very, very low. I've had AIL=13 for several months, I had used 50 EP to activate Frech and Greeks even earlier, but the forces at Odessa have remain fixed...


You're right. I will up it in the next version. It's really difficult to assess the correct probability value, I was myself thinking yesterday it should need to be raised, but I was waiting your report on...

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 5:07:25 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		New version of Fatal Yeras released on my blog ( see my sig)

Compatible with ongoing games

changes:

- one small, by raising the probability of active participation of French and Greek troops if the AIL is at 13.

- one major, by introducing changes in VPs for play balance:
Southern Whites will get 35 VP s by turn after August 1920
Siberian Whites will get 35 VPs after March 1920
To the condition for each to have a NM superior to 60.



Rather than in the official version of RUS searching balance by restricting Regional Decisions to areas with at least 51%of Loyalty, which is just the contrary of the reality of the RCW, this bonus in VPs will force the Red player to win as soon than in RL. a game ending in August 20 will be 54 tuens long, which isn’t that short. Except if you like 1,680 turns monster….

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 9:00:31 PM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 536
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline 		quote]ORIGINAL: Chliperic

Siberian and Southern Whites AI are yet to be maybe improved indeed. That's why I need remarks, critics and other reports I may reply. FY will never be achieved I don't care is some don't like or find bugs or errors: if justified I will fix them. The only point is good faith on both sides.
[/quote]

Honesty is the first thing above all between modders ,players or between anyone.
I have found this sentence very biased "I get a nasty surprise early as I see that many of my troops are at low organization levels and some of my ships need repairs starting out. I get a further nasty surprise when I find out that I am not able to take any regional decisions at all. I foresee a very short career for the revolution at this rate" . There is a decrease grade for not having able to take regional desicions in the first turn :)
Well I remember him adressing as "we" to the RUS developers, helps to get the big picture.
But on the otherhand there is a good community including betas wanting to try any improvements about RUS including your mod or others. As PON is rather long and and not easy to play, Rus is the best choice to return and play again and again as the best wargame in Age engine.

< Message edited by Baris -- 8/24/2011 9:21:42 PM >

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Post #: 412
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 9:23:50 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baris



Honesty is the first thing above all between modders ,players or between anyone.
I have found this sentence very biased "I get a nasty surprise early as I see that many of my troops are at low organization levels and some of my ships need repairs starting out. I get a further nasty surprise when I find out that I am not able to take any regional decisions at all. I foresee a very short career for the revolution at this rate" . There is a decrease grade for not having able to take regional desicions in the first turn :)
Well I remember him adressing as "we" to the RUS developers, helps to get the big picture.
But on the otherhand there is a good community including betas wanting to try any improvements about RUS including your mod or others. As PON is rather long and and not easy to play, Rus is the best choice to return and play again and again as the best wargame in Age engine.


Bah the real point is as always people are in general sufficiently smart to draw themselves conclusions about real motives of some. Facts are stubborn.

And I will just add one thing sincerely, you and some others I will not name have done with FY a betatesting job which AGEOD is maybe missing, with real bug reports, real remarks about gameplay and balance, not just pet idea exposed endlessly, or suggestions unfitted with the game design and concepts, or lousy bug report on very minor points when the big ones remain unnoticed. That is really precious, much more than the number; So, thanks.

< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/24/2011 10:07:45 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 9:29:10 PM   
Nikel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

- one small, by raising the probability of active participation of French and Greek troops if the AIL is at 13.




The french contingent will never be active because d'Anselme is using a generic french portrait

Clovis, if you want to add it, will post it in AGEod forum soon

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Post #: 414
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 9:38:33 PM   
Chilperic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

- one small, by raising the probability of active participation of French and Greek troops if the AIL is at 13.




The french contingent will never be active because d'Anselme is using a generic french portrait

Clovis, if you want to add it, will post it in AGEod forum soon


Thanks Nikel. I will of course. That's interesting.



< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/24/2011 9:41:14 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 10:08:56 PM   
Nikel

 

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Status: offline 		Posted

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Post #: 416
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 10:16:42 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

Posted



Downloaded Of course, for the next version in the next days.

< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/24/2011 10:25:57 PM >

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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 10:27:19 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		I wonder if a bonus of 35 VP is right or too high or too low. Let me know your VP results for those achieving a FY game. That's the best way to fine tune FY on this point.


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RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 11:17:03 PM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
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Status: offline 		Lithuanian Sylvestras Zukauskas added

Should be BAL instead of LIT

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Post #: 419
RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 - 8/24/2011 11:23:17 PM   
Chilperic


Posts: 964
Joined: 3/21/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

Lithuanian Sylvestras Zukauskas added

Should be BAL instead of LIT


downloaded too. Next version

Keke, thanks, and let them exposing themselves. I must say they don't even understand how their replies are so much grievance done by them on themselves. They are really convinced of their superiority and purchasers should grant them whatever the current state of their releases.

BTW, i don't want to discuss this on the Matrix board. Matrix is a company I respect and I don't want to cause them any moderating problem. If needed, my blog is the place for this. I know it's soemtimes difficult to resist to the envy to remind some realities, but the right place isn't here and I will aplly this for the first culprit: myself Moreover, my blog will just remain a place to present and dicuss my mod. Not a "anti" fortress, except of course when needed. Why they are yet currently devising about FY? Why they haven't understood the best is to keep mute about FY and work on their games...

Back to FY and SVF Much more rejoicing.

< Message edited by Chliperic -- 8/24/2011 11:56:00 PM >

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