TAO2, how to move across a river??

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TAO2, how to move across a river??

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Decisive Battles: Korsun Pocket >> TAO2, how to move across a river??

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TAO2, how to move across a river?? - 10/17/2002 7:41:50 PM

Fred98

Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline

Note the attached screen shot from TAO2

In the left hand shot, the infantry can move 3 hexes to the left � which includes crossing a river. But they cannot move 3 hexes to the south � which entails a move down a road.

Whereas in the same position, see the shot on the right, an armoured unit cannot cross the river, (understandably) but he can move south across a road bridge to a point one hex north of Wiltz.

Why is it that the infantry cannot move to the hex just north of Wiltz?

[IMG]http://www.users.bigpond.com/joeme/combined.jpg[/IMG]

Post #: 1

- 10/18/2002 6:53:53 PM

BrubakerII

Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline

Hi Joe

Well of course it all has to do with movement expenditure, and the cost of the terrain in each hex that the unit is moving into and from.

Consider the picture below, which is yours but with the terrain costs overlayed.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/numbers.jpg[/IMG]

A unit expends its movement OP's each time it moves to a new hex. This (as a general rule) is the cost of a hex it is leaving plus the cost of the hex it is entering divided by two - in otherwords an average of the two hexes. Therefore if a unit is leaving a hex of value 5 and entering a hex of value 3 it will cost it 4 OP's to make the move.

Okay, now considering the picture above, the move west across the river will cost to move into each hex 7,4,1 for a total of 12 and considering the next hexes are 1's also the unit therefore must have an OP value of 12 (because if it was 13 it could move another hex right?). The move south however will take it 5,3,3 which is only 11, but of course the move across the river on the brdige would cost another 4, which it doesn't have.

Out of interest (this is much like the game minesweeper in windows) one would initially think that the hex below the bridge (east of Wiltz) is a 1 OP hex also as the unit can move there as well, except that if you take the unit a different route (ie. S, S, SW, SW) you will find that it can reach that destination if the hex has a value of 2.

Anyway, so to answer your question the reason is that the hex on the other side of the river containing the bridge is of a relatively high value terrain wise. This could I suppose be justified by the difficulty crossing a narrow bridge and the traffic chaos undoubatably eventuating. What the situation does highlight however, is that there doesn't appear to be any inherent cost of crossing a river per se, or a benefit for travelling down a road, as the terrain in the hex provides the basis for the cost of the move, not the road itself.

Brubaker

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 2

Crossing rivers - 10/18/2002 6:54:53 PM

Matthew Urch

Posts: 70
Joined: 10/22/2001
From: UK
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Its to do with OP penalties, not rivers.

Without being able to see the font line on your screen shots I cannot give you an exact answer, but here is my best guess.

When moving along a road in enemy territory there is a 3 OP per hex penalty. So an infantry unit would have its usual road OP penalty increased from 2 to 5. I think the route for the units would take them through two such hexes

You can see the OP penalty for each hex by clicking the small icon that looks like a man holding up his hand (thats what it looks like to me!) at the bottom right of the screen.

The Strong point in Wiltz also causes a 4 point OP penalty due to its ZOC.

The net effect of this is that the infantry unit cannot cross by the bridge, because of the road OP penalty.

The armoured has far more OPs to start with and thus can cross via the road inspite of the OP penalty. The armoured unit is much worse at moving cross country and therefore has insufficient OPs to cross elsewhere.

There are also situations where the OP calculation doesn't seem to work out, and I believe this is to do with how OP costs are calculated. Units pay the cost of the hex they are leaving + the cost of the hex they are entering divided by two. However how the computer handles the fractions that frequently occur isn't clear. Neither is the exact cost for crossing a river. Armoured and mechanised units don't appear to ever expend more than 15 OPs for a move - even if the OP penalties should make the move more costly.

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 3

- 10/18/2002 6:59:10 PM

BrubakerII

Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline

Ah Matthew, beat you by one minute :) Actually what you have said has opened my eyes a little and I am going back to read the manual about road OP costs. Of course IN KP it may be a little different and if I had that manual I would read and quote from that ;)

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 4

Need those front lines.. - 10/22/2002 4:54:27 AM

leaderx

Posts: 73
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Argentina
Status: offline

I don't understand how you can play without displaying the front lines, without them you can't possibly calculate movement costs, as these differ from friendly to enemy controlled hexes. Matthew gave a good explanation, but I'd like to add something. The movement costs always get rounded down, Matthew have you ever seen anything opposite? For example moving from a hex that requires 6 OP's to one that requires 13 OP = 19 OP's/2 = 9.5, this gets rounded down to 9 OP's, fractions always get rounded down. There are varying penalties for different units (ie infantry is quite different - and much less - from armor or motorised) moving into a road hex (from a non road hex or from a road hex from a different road), I've never read the manual, but it doesn't sound like a detail that would be in there. Most of the time when you can't get the OP's to add up it's because you are overlooking the penalties caused by switching or entering a road (if you switch roads through an intersection there is no penalty).

BTW, haven't all these things been answered at The Blitz?

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 5

- 10/22/2002 5:12:28 AM

Fred98

Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline

Quote "I don't understand how you can play without displaying the front lines"

I find the front lines get in the way of the graphics. Sometimes I turn on the front lines because it gives me an idea as to whether an enemy unit is close to being caught out of supply. Otherwise I don't use them.

If an enemy unit is close to being out of supply, I might use air support just behind him to further disrupt his supply.

As to calculating movement costs, thats what computers are for. If I click on a unit, I can see how far it can move - see example in the first post.

Why would you need to calculate movement costs???

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 6

- 10/22/2002 6:04:03 AM

Andy Brown

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/20/2001
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Why would you need to calculate movement costs???[/QUOTE]

Joe, Matthew and leaderx are two of the top players of the game. When you're playing at their level, it's frequently important to know just how far such-and-such an enemy unit will be able to get this turn/next turn/whatever and also "if I put this unit HERE, how long will it take to get it to THERE?".

Cheers,

Andy

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 7

Front Lines - 10/22/2002 3:24:43 PM

BrubakerII

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Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
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I like the front lines. It gives me an artificial representation of how well I am doing :p

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 8