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RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/6/2011 7:39:29 PM

Ketza

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Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

USA here!

My daughter is on the United States jump rope team and we traveled to Europe for the world competition last year. We spent 9 days in England and 5 days in France. We were grateful to be in a position financially to be able to do so when so many are struggling. We are indeed blessed to be able to take care of our family and allow our children to be successful in school and sports.

Pardon me. I just found it funny. United States jump rope team! I'm sorry. It just struck me as funny.

It is actually a very popular world sport. Our biggest competition from Europe is Belgium.

http://www.usajrf.org/

It has given my daughter and our family the opportunity to travel and compete all over the world.

Just so happens she is good at it!

She is part of this group at the Macys day parade in 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4O63oyeRn4

< Message edited by Ketza -- 10/6/2011 7:43:10 PM >

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Post #: 151

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/6/2011 8:01:39 PM

chesmart

Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
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Yes they are more educated but the opportunists/anarchists are still there and they are the ones you hear most in times of crisis. Hopefully Greece will come out of the black hole before it drags all in with them.

(in reply to LoBaron)

Post #: 152

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/6/2011 8:04:54 PM

Rainer

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
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Hi Frank,
I do not oppose your view as stated in your last message.
In fact I share most of the view points presented by you (especially yielding power to Brussels and the lack of constitutional regulations).

I still feel it is questionable to say "People in Germany clearly hate the EU".
In fact, most people (according to polls you seem to be fond of) welcome the peaceful development of the last decades and enjoy the convinience of freely travelling across the national borders ("Schengener Treaty").

It is a sad fact that many politicians as well as many media people do not distinguish between the political and economical develoment. Instead they try to make us believe the welfare of large financial enterprises is directly connected to a peaceful development in Europe.
I do not share this view.

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Post #: 153

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/6/2011 8:13:01 PM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

Youre right, though I do rate the chances ok for regions come out of the black holes.

Every nation or large gremium knows, economy is so intertwined globally meanwhile that if a significant part collapses - independent
on whether its the EU, North/South America, or the Asian economies - it would draw the whole world with it.

This knowledge is available to a lot of people in right positions, contrary to the 30�s of the last century, so I expect a LOT of effort put into crisis regions independent
on size. It might not prevent the need of widespread or significant changes, but it will ease the blow I guess.

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Post #: 154

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/6/2011 9:05:55 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

USA here!

My daughter is on the United States jump rope team and we traveled to Europe for the world competition last year. We spent 9 days in England and 5 days in France. We were grateful to be in a position financially to be able to do so when so many are struggling. We are indeed blessed to be able to take care of our family and allow our children to be successful in school and sports.

Pardon me. I just found it funny. United States jump rope team! I'm sorry. It just struck me as funny.

It is actually a very popular world sport. Our biggest competition from Europe is Belgium.

http://www.usajrf.org/

It has given my daughter and our family the opportunity to travel and compete all over the world.

Just so happens she is good at it!

She is part of this group at the Macys day parade in 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4O63oyeRn4

It's just me. I got caught off guard on the jump rope team. This seems to be one of those things that the Chinese will get really good at and unbeatable. My thumbs-up to you and your daughter.

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(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 155

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 1:52:33 AM

pws1225

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

USA here!

My daughter is on the United States jump rope team and we traveled to Europe for the world competition last year. We spent 9 days in England and 5 days in France. We were grateful to be in a position financially to be able to do so when so many are struggling. We are indeed blessed to be able to take care of our family and allow our children to be successful in school and sports.

Pardon me. I just found it funny. United States jump rope team! I'm sorry. It just struck me as funny.

It is actually a very popular world sport. Our biggest competition from Europe is Belgium.

http://www.usajrf.org/

It has given my daughter and our family the opportunity to travel and compete all over the world.

Just so happens she is good at it!

She is part of this group at the Macys day parade in 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4O63oyeRn4

It's just me. I got caught off guard on the jump rope team. This seems to be one of those things that the Chinese will get really good at and unbeatable. My thumbs-up to you and your daughter.

The Chinese are already there. I went to a Cirque de Soleil show last weekend and one of the acts was a Chinese jump rope troope. Their finale was a three high human pyramid jumping rope faster than I could comprehend. Utterly amazing. Me thinks your daughter is our last best hope to compete with those guys.

(in reply to Schanilec)

Post #: 156

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 1:00:33 PM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
As for the US, note that whereas they do spend less than europeans, their subsidized social system (pensions and medicare) still represents about 15% of GDP (vs 20% in Western Europe, but higher than some European countries).

Francois

The difference is really this small? Did not expect this.

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Post #: 157

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 2:45:14 PM

fcharton

Posts: 1112
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
The difference is really this small? Did not expect this.

In the US, Social Security (ie pensions and welfare for the old) represents 7% of GDP, Medicare/aid is just a little lower (and you'd need to add smaller expenses related to the social system). Also, some northern european countries (and France and Germany) are closer to 30 than 20%.

Here are a few old data, from Wikipedia, but you can find more recent ones, I'm sure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

Look the PIIGS up, you'll see they're not the "welfarest states" (Ireland has less social expenditures than the US, for instance).

There's a lot of misunderstanding about those issues. Many europeans picture North America as a place where old people are left to starve or die for medieval diseases in the streets, while some Americans picture Europe as North Korea with white people in it. There's also a lot of politics involved too...

Francois

(in reply to LoBaron)

Post #: 158

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 2:59:19 PM

chesmart

Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline

After the Obama Reforms ?

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Post #: 159

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 4:22:36 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
There's a lot of misunderstanding about those issues. Many europeans picture North America as a place where old people are left to starve or die for medieval diseases in the streets, while some Americans picture Europe as North Korea with white people in it. There's also a lot of politics involved too...
Francois

You're kidding about how many Europeans view North Americans?

I know you're wrong about some Americans viewing Europe as "North Korea with white people in it." I've never caught the slightest whiff that any American thought anything like that.

(in reply to fcharton)

Post #: 160

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 5:17:39 PM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
There's a lot of misunderstanding about those issues. Many europeans picture North America as a place where old people are left to starve or die for medieval diseases in the streets, while some Americans picture Europe as North Korea with white people in it. There's also a lot of politics involved too...
Francois

You're kidding about how many Europeans view North Americans?

I know you're wrong about some Americans viewing Europe as "North Korea with white people in it." I've never caught the slightest whiff that any American thought anything like that.

I DO know that one of the comments I already heard several times, whilst travelling the US and answered questions about where I was from, was "Nice, I always wanted to see Kangaroos in the wild...",
so it is not neccesarily always North Korea.
But my working place just might currently resemble some really bad place in NK, so thats not totally off limits.

Also, Francois is exaggerating a bit...

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Post #: 161

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 5:23:37 PM

fcharton

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From: France
Status: offline

Che200,

The Wikipedia data is from 2001, so that's before Obama. Those were the simplest data I could find, but I doubt more recent figures would change the values much. 1 point of US GDP is a huge amount of money, even large reforms don't achieve that in a couple of years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
You're kidding about how many Europeans view North Americans?

I know you're wrong about some Americans viewing Europe as "North Korea with white people in it." I've never caught the slightest whiff that any American thought anything like that.

I'm of course exagerating for effect... But there is some truth in both.

I have noticed on several occasions that the word "socialist", which our center-left parties use to name themselves, rings a much stronger bell in north american minds. We still have a communist party here (when I was a child it was very pro-Soviet, and claimed about 20% of voters), and nowadays, the extreme left (Trotskyists mostly) fetch 5-10% at every election. This comes as a shock to many American residents here.

Also our heavy taxes/high benefit system, which a majority supports, looks like a very far left idea to many american observers (it is curious, by the way, because this strain of capitalism is just as old as the anglo-american version, and the first country to try and implement modern social security was... Prussia, which few would associate with "socialism"...;-) ).

The idea that America is a society without welfare, where the poor are (almost) left to die in the streets is, unfortunately, pretty common in continental Europe (at least in France). It is not quite "how" the french view america, because there is a lot of genuine admiration for the USA, especially among the middle class. But the idea that America, though great and fascinating, is a harsh and brutal society, is quite common.

Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 10/7/2011 5:36:35 PM >

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Post #: 162

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 5:56:37 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
The idea that America is a society without welfare, where the poor are (almost) left to die in the streets is, unfortunately, pretty common in continental Europe (at least in France). It is not quite "how" the french view america, because there is a lot of genuine admiration for the USA, especially among the middle class. But the idea that America, though great and fascinating, is a harsh and brutal society, is quite common.

My experience from any number of discussions with Europeans-particularly younger or less educated / travelled ones-confirms this perspective.

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Post #: 163

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 6:09:19 PM

chesmart

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From: Malta
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Same in my country Fran�ois We have a centre left and centre right party which are basically centrist parties. A small minority here especially middle class understand the difference but we have a small minority who are extreme leftists/anarchists who classify themselves as liberals and are at present in the limelight down here especially after the divorce campaign. There idea of the EU crisis is to bury there heads in the ground let everybody sink. Luckily in Malta the economy has not gone into recession for the past 20 years and our average growth has been circa 4% PA . The problem is we have a lot of state costs which probably would put us on the top of that list we are talking 50-55% of GDP go to education and health services. Yes we spend more than Sweden and Finland Per capita.

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Post #: 164

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 8:17:46 PM

Ketza

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From: Columbia, Maryland
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In my dealings with and travels around countries in Europe it seemed that the French had a genuine disdain for americans.

Even when I took a trip to Normandy I found the local French rather unpleasant even far away from Paris. I was also shocked at the number of beggars and trinket hawkers and just how pushy and rude they were.

It was so bad in Paris that my wife and I vowed to never return.

Does the French view of America have anything to do with their attitudes or are they that way with everyone?

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Post #: 165

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 9:09:15 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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My father, who is a World War II veteran, has been to Normandy for a handful of the D-Day Anniversary celebrations over the past ten or fifteen years (he came ashore on D Plus Four). He says that all of the French citizens he's met on those trips have been wonderful, with a very evident affection for Americans (at least for American veterans of World War II). You'd expect to find a more welcoming environment under those conditions, but every American I've ever known who visited Normandy has come away impressed, with positive reports about the French people they met.

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Post #: 166

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 9:36:18 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

In my dealings with and travels around countries in Europe it seemed that the French had a genuine disdain for americans.

Even when I took a trip to Normandy I found the local French rather unpleasant even far away from Paris. I was also shocked at the number of beggars and trinket hawkers and just how pushy and rude they were.

It was so bad in Paris that my wife and I vowed to never return.

Does the French view of America have anything to do with their attitudes or are they that way with everyone?

Warspite1

You are not alone in that. My experience of the French in their own country has been generally bad - which is a real shame

. Mind you, manners seem to be going out the window everywhere - in the UK as much, if not more, as anywhere else......

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Post #: 167

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 10:12:12 PM

Ketza

Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My father, who is a World War II veteran, has been to Normandy for a handful of the D-Day Anniversary celebrations over the past ten or fifteen years (he came ashore on D Plus Four). He says that all of the French citizens he's met on those trips have been wonderful, with a very evident affection for Americans (at least for American veterans of World War II). You'd expect to find a more welcoming environment under those conditions, but every American I've ever known who visited Normandy has come away impressed, with positive reports about the French people they met.

Maybe around the anniversary they become friendly :)

We left Paris at around 8am and drove to Normandy not using any maps and going from my military history knowledge we actually found our way to Juno beach around noonish. We were starving so we parked near the inlet and walked past the fresh fish carts to find a restaraunt.

When we walked into the first restaraunt (4 of us) we asked to be seated. The waiter actually rolled his eyes when he realized we were from the USA. He seated us and even tho the place was not crowded did not come back for 10 minutes. We explained that we could not read the menu and there were no pictures of the food. Now at most french restaraunts in France they bring a chalkboard over to your table with the menu written in english for tourists. He finally brought us a board but it was written in French and he walked away. After another 10 minutes he had not returned so we just left.

The next restaraunt there was actually a waiter from Phoenix Arizona! His parents had moved to France for work and had to move back to the states and he had stayed. He was a great waiter and we had a wonderful meal before we wandered off to visit the beachs.

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Post #: 168

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 11:32:46 PM

chesmart

Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
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I work all over Europe I normally travel every 2 weeks and in France I have learnt that if you speak in French even my broken French the atmosphere changes so it is more a cultural problem then hostility to Americans. Had the same problem in Greece lately when I was there when there where the protests if I used English I was ignored but if I used another language I got great service. The worst experience I ever had was in turkey had a very bad experience there.

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 169

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/7/2011 11:42:01 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My father, who is a World War II veteran, has been to Normandy for a handful of the D-Day Anniversary celebrations over the past ten or fifteen years (he came ashore on D Plus Four). He says that all of the French citizens he's met on those trips have been wonderful, with a very evident affection for Americans (at least for American veterans of World War II). You'd expect to find a more welcoming environment under those conditions, but every American I've ever known who visited Normandy has come away impressed, with positive reports about the French people they met.

Maybe around the anniversary they become friendly :)

We left Paris at around 8am and drove to Normandy not using any maps and going from my military history knowledge we actually found our way to Juno beach around noonish. We were starving so we parked near the inlet and walked past the fresh fish carts to find a restaraunt.

When we walked into the first restaraunt (4 of us) we asked to be seated. The waiter actually rolled his eyes when he realized we were from the USA. He seated us and even tho the place was not crowded did not come back for 10 minutes. We explained that we could not read the menu and there were no pictures of the food. Now at most french restaraunts in France they bring a chalkboard over to your table with the menu written in english for tourists. He finally brought us a board but it was written in French and he walked away. After another 10 minutes he had not returned so we just left.

The next restaraunt there was actually a waiter from Phoenix Arizona! His parents had moved to France for work and had to move back to the states and he had stayed. He was a great waiter and we had a wonderful meal before we wandered off to visit the beachs.

My X's dad was an international airline pilot. He used to dred the Paris run. Said city was sewer and the people were nasty as hell. Odd.

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Post #: 170

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/8/2011 1:21:50 AM

fcharton

Posts: 1112
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza
In my dealings with and travels around countries in Europe it seemed that the French had a genuine disdain for americans.

I don't think this is true. There are anti-american feelings in France, but they are mixed with genuine admiration and interest. You'd be surprised by the number of american festivals here, even in small cities (there was one in the very small town where I lived, two weeks ago, third one I see in four years I've lived here)

Experiences as tourists are a different matter, you can be lucky, or very unlucky. As Che200 observed, trying to speak the language (or just pretending) does help a lot...

Francois

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 171

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/8/2011 2:41:49 AM

chesmart

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From: Malta
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The French are very proud of there language

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Post #: 172

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/8/2011 4:57:12 AM

mike scholl 1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
My X's dad was an international airline pilot. He used to dred the Paris run. Said city was sewer and the people were nasty as hell. Odd.

This matches my own experiance. The folks in Lille, Caen, and Cherbourg were all pleasant and friendly..., but in Paris they looked down on us and treated us like lepers. Quite frankly, I quickly felt the same about Parisians.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 173

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/8/2011 5:08:09 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, certainly not at Mike, but we'd better halt this particular tangent and get back on topic. Which is: personal experiences in the rather historic economic troubles we are currently experiencing.

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Post #: 174

RE: Participating in History (OT) - 10/8/2011 8:59:41 AM

fcharton

Posts: 1112
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: che200
but we have a small minority who are extreme leftists/anarchists who classify themselves as liberals and are at present in the limelight down here especially after the divorce campaign. There idea of the EU crisis is to bury there heads in the ground let everybody sink.

It is one curious consequence of the current crisis. Opposition to the EU, here, used to be a rightwing affair. Basically, people would oppose the EU because it would create a bureaucracy on top of the nation, because it would deprive us of some of our basic rights (important things, I mean, like cheese and forcefed geese), and because it would allow foreigners to have a say in our affairs. I believe UK opposition to the EU goes along these lines.

Over the last decade, however, such "nationalist" critics have been less and less vocal, probably because in actual practice, european states have retained a lot of their rights (some former critics are now scolding the EU for not being strong enough...).

With the economic crisis, a new form of opposition to the EU appeared, on the left of the political spectrum. To them, the EU is sold to big corporations, and threatens our social systems by pushing for less state intervention in the economy, privatisation of public services, and the end of free education and social security. This opinion is now very common among the young and the workers.

Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 10/8/2011 9:14:40 AM >

(in reply to chesmart)

Post #: 175