RE: NKVD supermen

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: NKVD supermen

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RE: NKVD supermen - 8/18/2011 4:21:53 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

The game needs an over run rule. Its that simple. I can't think of a good game (IMO) on the Eastern Front that didn't have one.

+1

The model for convincing operational war games has been on the table top since the 1970s at least (and working brilliantly) and almost all of the ideas for improvements put forward in this forum have some kind of parallel in the original cardboard GDW or AH games and the like.

I cannot believe you could make this comment about a game based and titled on SPIs War in the East and not mention SPI!

Quoting myself because I just remembered something from those days when I played SPI's War in the East. When I saw they had put out War in Europe (with War in the West), I wrote SPI on what would it take to convert what I had to War in Europe. They sent me everything, mapboards, counters, rules - FOR FREE!!!

No wonder they went bankrupt.

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 91

RE: NKVD supermen - 8/18/2011 4:25:34 PM

GBS

Posts: 903
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Southeastern USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

The game needs an over run rule. Its that simple. I can't think of a good game (IMO) on the Eastern Front that didn't have one.

+1

The model for convincing operational war games has been on the table top since the 1970s at least (and working brilliantly) and almost all of the ideas for improvements put forward in this forum have some kind of parallel in the original cardboard GDW or AH games and the like.

Am I incorrect in my understanding of the current route system that it is in fact like an overrun? I understand that the troops and equipment of the routed unit are scattered to the wind so to speak, much like an overrun in my view, and that the hex where the unit icon appears is just where the unit will reconstitute itself when it has recovered from Route status. Correct? The current system seems to be a good one to me.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)

Post #: 92

RE: NKVD supermen - 8/18/2011 5:06:36 PM

BletchleyGeek

Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GBS

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
The game needs an over run rule. Its that simple. I can't think of a good game (IMO) on the Eastern Front that didn't have one.

+1

The model for convincing operational war games has been on the table top since the 1970s at least (and working brilliantly) and almost all of the ideas for improvements put forward in this forum have some kind of parallel in the original cardboard GDW or AH games and the like.

Am I incorrect in my understanding of the current route system that it is in fact like an overrun? I understand that the troops and equipment of the routed unit are scattered to the wind so to speak, much like an overrun in my view, and that the hex where the unit icon appears is just where the unit will reconstitute itself when it has recovered from Route status. Correct? The current system seems to be a good one to me.

Hmmm, I'd rather say that the thing most close to that of overruns is the SHATTERED combat result. However, as already pointed out on this thread - and implied by "overrun" advocates - this result is only influenced by factors (toe, morale, experience) in the defender, being indifferent to the type of attack (motorized or not, devastating air superiority over the battlefield, etc.).

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(in reply to GBS)

Post #: 93

RE: NKVD supermen - 8/18/2011 10:17:49 PM

Michael T

Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

I think a problem here is that all the NKVD units in WITE are being treated as quality troops.

Aside from a small morale bonus for the regiments, there's nothing special about them. They're not elite and the NKVD Rifle units are just regular Rifle units without any bonus.

Well there is something in the code thats stopping them routing like any other Soviet unit. Thus WITE is treating NKVD units somewhat differently to other Soviet units in general. By what mechanism I do not know. But in early 1941 I can't think of another unit that is so hard to kill off. Even Para units seem to die easier.

As for 'overrun' and 'rout' being roughly equivalent, I don't by it. An overrun should leave pretty much no survivors, like said above, it would be more like a shatter or even surrender.

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(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 94