The only thing I see "missing" is when rifle brigades can be formed into divisions. (Perhaps rifle divisions with a * since rifle divisions can be formed from the start of the game).
Be great to see something like this integrated into the commanders report as well for the appropriate items as they become available or perhaps a note in the re-enforcement schedule (or heck, why not both? )
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Joined: 9/9/2009 From: Southern California Status: offline
May of 42 for the rifle brigades flipping to divisions.
Joel, I'm pretty sure players can't make mountain corps at any point in the game. (Which is somewhat odd because some of the later scenarios do begin with on map mountain corps. But you can't actually make them yourself.)
Jakerson could you let us know how you managed to do it as I can't get make Mountain Corps in my current game (June 42) when trying with a stack of 3 Mountain Div's. Thou come to think of it one was Guards Mountain Div but I wouldn't expect that to be the problem.
< Message edited by Kiith -- 8/12/2011 7:28:22 AM >
Joel has asked me to update the creation list so I need definitive answers on the following items:
Guards Airborne Division - I went by when this unit becomes available in the OB file (wrob.dat) but I've never tried to create one myself so is the date 6/43 or 1/43?
Guards Rifle Division - I was under the impression you couldn't directly build any Guards unit. Can you build them directly starting 3/43?
TD Battery - I was under the impression these batteries would come as reinforcements and not be a buildable formation. If they are buildable can you still build them after their TOE's end date in April, 1942?
Mountain Corps - It was supposed to be formable from mountain divisions. Is this true or not?
If some one can get me answers to these questions I will update the list accordingly.
Joel has asked me to update the creation list so I need definitive answers on the following items:
Guards Airborne Division - I went by when this unit becomes available in the OB file (wrob.dat) but I've never tried to create one myself so is the date 6/43 or 1/43?
Guards Rifle Division - I was under the impression you couldn't directly build any Guards unit. Can you build them directly starting 3/43?
TD Battery - I was under the impression these batteries would come as reinforcements and not be a buildable formation. If they are buildable can you still build them after their TOE's end date in April, 1942?
Mountain Corps - It was supposed to be formable from mountain divisions. Is this true or not?
If some one can get me answers to these questions I will update the list accordingly.
Thanks,
Jim Wirth
As far as I know if you combine three air brigades they automatically form up guard rifle divisions if done after March 1942. If you wait until January 1943 and combine three air brigades they form up guard airborne division.
Also if you combine three guard rifle divisions you automatically get guard rifle corps. If you combine two rifle brigades with guard status you get guard rifle division.
Saving airborne brigades is worth as you can get nice units from them later so it is not good to waste them in some delay operation at 1941. If they get shattered or isolated and surrendered there is no way to get them back and you cannot make new airborne units if original ones are killed.
Other than this you need to let your unit get experience and some of them auto convert to guard status.
< Message edited by Jakerson -- 8/12/2011 9:15:17 PM >
Besides the airborne guards conversion, Soviet Rocket and Heavy Tank Regiments receive automatic guards status on creation.
Do they get higher exp too than normal units when created? Or is this just some Soviet naming scheme that Rocket artillery and heavy tank regiment is always named Guard but troops inside them start with low exp?
< Message edited by Jakerson -- 8/13/2011 12:00:32 AM >
ORIGINAL: jamesm I have just tried to join 3 mountain division in my current game (November 43) and they will not merge.
I thougt it was added in patch that mountain divisions can be merged to form mountain corps as there is mountain corps in some end year campaings and if you start 41 you have no way doing them.
>Guards Airborne Division - I went by when this unit becomes available in the OB file (wrob.dat) but I've never tried to create one myself so is >the date 6/43 or 1/43?
>Guards Rifle Division - I was under the impression you couldn't directly build any Guards unit. Can you build them directly starting 3/43?
I do not know: this is from notes I took directly from the Manual.
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I've attached a revised list that Jim put together based on comments here and some research he did.
Soviet Unit Creation List
Formation Date Notes Combined Arms Army HQ Jun-41 Rifle Division Jun-41 1 Cavalry Division Jun-41 AT Artillery Brigade Jun-41 PVO AA Brigade Jun-41 Motorcycle Regiment Jun-41 BM Howitzer Regiment Jun-41 Corps Artillery Regiment Jun-41 Howitzer Regiment Jun-41 Gun Regiment Jun-41 Heavy Gun Regiment Jun-41 PVO AA Regiment Jun-41 PVO AA Battalion Jun-41 AA Battalion Jun-41 Sapper Battalion Jun-41 Sapper Regiment Jun-41 Construction Battalion Jun-41 RR Construction Brigade Jun-41 Mortar Battalion Jun-41 Heavy Mortar Battalion Jun-41 Fortified Region Jun-41 MG-Artillery Battalion Jun-41 AT Artillery Regiment Jul-41 Light Rocket Regiment Aug-41 2 Separate Tank Battalion Aug-41 Tank Brigade Sep-41 Rifle Brigade Sep-41 Army Artillery Regiment Sep-41 Artillery Regiment RVGK Sep-41 Light Rocket Battalion Sep-41 TD Battery Sep-41 3 Ski Battalion Nov-41 Cavalry Corps Dec-41 4 Light Gun Brigade Jan-42 Light Howitzer Brigade Jan-42 Light Gun Regiment Jan-42 Mortar Regiment Jan-42 Tank Corps Apr-42 5 Guards Rifle Division Apr-42 6 Motorized Brigade Apr-42 AT-Rifle Battalion Apr-42 Gun Brigade May-42 Flamethrower Company May-42 Rifle Corps Jun-42 7 Heavy AT Regiment Jun-42 AA Regiment Jun-42 Heavy Rocket Battalion Jun-42 Tank Army HQ Jul-42 Flame Tank Battalion Jul-42 TD Artillery Battalion Aug-42 Mechanized Corps Sep-42 8 Mechanized Brigade Sep-42 Ski Brigade Sep-42 Separate Tank Regiment Sep-42 Artillery Division Oct-42 Heavy Tank Regiment Oct-42 2 Heavy Rocket Brigade Nov-42 Mountain Mortar Regiment Nov-42 Rocket Launcher Division Dec-42 Guards Airborne Division Jan-43 9 Breakthrough Artillery Division Mar-43 Light SU Regiment Mar-43 Medium SU Regiment Mar-43 Heavy SU Regiment Mar-43 Mortar Brigade Apr-43 Assault Engineer Sapper Brigade May-43 Army Gun Artillery Regiment May-43 Heavy Gun Artillery Division Jun-43 Corps Artillery Battalion Jun-43 Flamethrower Battalion Jun-43 Gun Artillery Division Sep-43 Light SU Brigade Feb-44 Flame Tank Regiment May-44 Medium SU Brigade Jan-45 Heavy Tank Brigade Feb-45 Heavy SU Brigade Mar-45
Notes: 1) can also be formed from two rifle brigades from May, 1942 2) receive automatic Guards status on creation 3) can't be created after April, 1942 4) formed from the combination of three cavalry divisions 5) formed from the combination of three tank brigades 6) In addition to being "awarded" any time after August, 1941 it may be formed from three airborne brigades between April, 1942 and December, 1942 7) formed from the combination of three rifle divisions or two rifle divisions and a rifle brigade 8) formed from the combination of three mechanized or motorized brigades 9) formed from the combination of three airborne brigades
Also if you combine three guard rifle divisions you automatically get guard rifle corps. If you combine two rifle brigades with guard status you get guard rifle division.
You can combine two guards divisions with a regular brigade or division and get a guards rifle corps. This means with 12 guards IDs you can make 6 guards corps instead of 4. I can see no reason to ever use 3 guards divisions to make a rifle corps. Not sure how much manpower difference difference their is in the TOE (combining 2 ID + 1 Bde instead of 3 ID), but I wanted to keep as many divisions on the map as I could.
Do the guards unit limits go stictly off map counters, or is there some kind of manpower consideration? It seems like combining 2 guards ID + 1 Bde gives me room to promote another unit to guards status.
It's Feb '42 and I've created 9 Light Howitzer Brigades to soak up some of my spare 2000+ 122mm tubes. My plan is to use at least these (540 tubes) to start bleeding the Finns, and I'm considering building another 9 brigades of same for use north of Ladoga as well. My question is, can these be combined into Artillery Divisions in Oct '42, or is the 'proper' course to disband them then construct the divisions pulling these same tubes from the pool?
< Message edited by Seminole -- 2/6/2012 4:24:37 PM >
Also if you combine three guard rifle divisions you automatically get guard rifle corps. If you combine two rifle brigades with guard status you get guard rifle division.
You can combine two guards divisions with a regular brigade or division and get a guards rifle corps. This means with 12 guards IDs you can make 6 guards corps instead of 4. I can see no reason to ever use 3 guards divisions to make a rifle corps. Not sure how much manpower difference difference their is in the TOE (combining 2 ID + 1 Bde instead of 3 ID), but I wanted to keep as many divisions on the map as I could.
Do the guards unit limits go stictly off map counters, or is there some kind of manpower consideration? It seems like combining 2 guards ID + 1 Bde gives me room to promote another unit to guards status.
That's what I do too....Why use 3 Guards units when 2 can do the trick? Presumably a 2 div/1 brig combo will require more replacements to reach full Corps TOE, but the way I see it is that the Corps will need to spend some time behind the lines retraining (experience plummets when combining) so they can restock on bodies while training. To me, the biggest hurdle as the Soviet is the AP limit, never near enough for what needs doing especially during The Great Reorganization in ´42-´43. So if I can use a brigade-unit that I can't use for anything else anyway, instead of using a division-counter which I'll have to spend APs to recreate, that's a no-brainer.
_____________________________
"Something is always wrong, Baldrick. The fact that I'm not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle" - Edmund Blackadder
Is there a new support unit ? A engineer sapper brigade 41?
Hello
Yes
Made the following changes in the TOE(OB) data base relating to Soviet Sappers:
• TOE(OB) 43 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (446) revised to eliminate 12 Sapper Squads with flamethrowers and replace with 10 Rifle Squads, increased Support and brigade upgrades to 44 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (486) in 5/44; • Added TOE(OB) 44 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (486) with addition of 24 Flamethrower Squads (240 FLAMETHROWERS!) and 9 anti-tank rifles; • Added TOE(OB) 41 Engineer-Sapper Brigade (499) as Construction type support unit which upgrades (actually gets smaller) to 43 Engineer-Sapper Brigade (500) in 6/43.
Hope it helps...
Omat
_____________________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
Are you saying a flamethrower squad has 10 flamethrowers? I think it's just one flamethrower per squad.
You are confusing the flamethrower squad with the pre-war sapper squad. The Flamethrower squad is exactly what it says a squad composed entirely of men equipped with flamethrowers.
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