Converting Units to Kamikaze

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Converting Units to Kamikaze

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Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 2:33:17 AM

Cuttlefish

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What factors determine whether a Japanese air group can convert to to a kamikaze unit? All I can find in the manual (page 175) is that once the proper conditions are met one unit a day may convert, as long as that unit is not a transport aircraft unit. In practice, however, which units have the kamikaze option highlighted seems to be fairly capricious and random. I have played with supply levels, fatigue levels, proximity to parent HQ, and mission setting, and none of these seems to have an effect.

In my last couple of games as Japan I have put some effort into training select air groups in low naval attack, setting them up to be kamikaze units against the inevitable day the Allies get close enough for me to need them. These are usually bomber groups - I like to use rear-area groups flying Idas, Sonias, etc. for this purpose. But when the time comes these groups never seem to be able to convert. My elite fighter squadrons, on the other hand, are often eager to volunteer for the job. But not all fighter groups will convert, and not all bomber groups won't. Does anyone have any insight into this?

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 2:47:28 AM

Chickenboy

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None yet, sorry Cuttlefish. Thanks for posting though, I'll follow the discussion with interest.

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 2:55:00 AM

Bradley7735

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I seem to remember reading (in a thread, not the manual) that experience plays a part in whether it can change to kamikaze. Higher is better for converting. But, that seems illogical to me. Once you use them, the replacements will be very low exp.

I have no experience with Kamikazes. Just mentioning something from the back of my brain....

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 5:12:58 AM

Chickenboy

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Yes, that's right. Wasn't it lower than 50 EXP for elligibility? Again, just going off of ancient rumor and innuendo...

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 5:38:21 AM

Cuttlefish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Yes, that's right. Wasn't it lower than 50 EXP for elligibility? Again, just going off of ancient rumor and innuendo...

I think this may be correct. I looked at my air groups and, while I found a few units with below 50 exp. that could not convert, most could. And I found no units at 50 exp. or higher that could convert. Thanks!

So my highly-trained Special Attack Corps units are too highly trained. Dropping the experience level isn't difficult, but it raises a new question. I could replace skilled pilots with rookies until the experience level drops to 49, convert the unit to kamikaze, then put the skilled pilots back. But that smells a little gamey to me. What do others think?

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 6:13:10 AM

erstad

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quote:

could replace skilled pilots with rookies until the experience level drops to 49, convert the unit to kamikaze, then put the skilled pilots back. But that smells a little gamey to me. What do others think?

The 50 limit is undocumented (other than the forum) and is a bit capricious. Say you do convert an under 50 unit, attack with it, and lose most/all of the pilots. Would we then feel compelled to refill with only under 50 pilots? Bottom line is if you are going to convert, say, 5 groups to kamis, it doesn't seem to matter much which ones. So no, doesn't seem overly gamey to me.

YMMMV

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/18/2011 1:10:29 PM

Chickenboy

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I wouldn't hesitate to do this either, Cuttlefish. Again, it's the experience level, not the individual skill (LowNav) at issue, right? With the way kamikaze training goes, it's quite conceivable to have rookie pilot trainees at 60 LowNav that are in the 30s-40s for EXP per se. Just cherry pick your way through your reserves and add pilots into the Sentai that way.

Again, never done this, but sounds like a rational way to approach it.

I wouldn't worry about putting the experienced pilots back in either-as the EXP factor will be of secondary importance in their role as ship crashers.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 8/18/2011 1:12:33 PM >

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/19/2011 7:10:14 AM

Cuttlefish

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I tried reducing the experience level of an Ida chutai in order to convert it to a kamikaze unit, and it worked just fine. The chutai started with an overall experience level of 70, with all pilots having a low nav attack rating of from 70 to 75. I removed half the pilots and filled their slots with replacements. On the next turn the unit's experience was 49. Bingo, the kamikaze option became active. So they became members of the Special Attack Corps.

I may just train the rookies until the group is committed, or I may replace them with more skilled "volunteers." In wondering whether the latter option is gamey I've been trying to decide why the 49-experience limit is in place. It may be to reflect the fact that the kamikaze program was born of desperation and by the time it was instituted Japan was short of skilled pilots. The kamikazes wreaked a fair amount of havoc as it was; allowing a large number of very good pilots to give their lives for the Emperor might give the suicide pilots a punch out of line with their historic effectiveness.

Or it might be something else entirely. The fact that it now also costs victory points to convert a unit argues that the designers might be trying to keep Japanese players from going too kamikaze-happy, though. I think for the moment I will steer a moderate course with conversions until I see how effective they are in combat.

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/19/2011 8:50:02 AM

jmalter

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well my opinion on 'what is gamey' has altered somewhat of late, but i'm still generally of the opinion that one should be able to 'use the tools the good lord gave you,' after all, effective pilot-manipulation is an essential skill in this game.

i gather your dilemma is, that after having massaged that Ida chutai to lower its exp & allow the conversion, it might be regarded as cheesy to immediately re-massage it by removing all the new pilots & replacing them w/ those high-rated guys you detached one turn before.

Doing so might create an uber-weapon, esp. if your oppo is sloppy w/ his CAP & TF composition, but surely this is late in the game & he should've learned those lessons by now? & as uber-weapons go, this one is a one-shot deal - whether shot down or successful, those tokko boys aren't gonna come back & do it again next turn, right? So why not give that Ida chutai the best ability to make a difference, instead of just making a gesture?

i think you're right to be await to await combat results before making a decision, but factor in your game-situation. If things get desperate, use desperation tactics!

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/19/2011 1:08:59 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish
The fact that it now also costs victory points to convert a unit

Whoa! Really?

Victory points? (not political points?)

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RE: Converting Units to Kamikaze - 8/19/2011 1:18:20 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

I tried reducing the experience level of an Ida chutai in order to convert it to a kamikaze unit, and it worked just fine. The chutai started with an overall experience level of 70, with all pilots having a low nav attack rating of from 70 to 75. I removed half the pilots and filled their slots with replacements. On the next turn the unit's experience was 49. Bingo, the kamikaze option became active. So they became members of the Special Attack Corps.

I may just train the rookies until the group is committed, or I may replace them with more skilled "volunteers." In wondering whether the latter option is gamey I've been trying to decide why the 49-experience limit is in place. It may be to reflect the fact that the kamikaze program was born of desperation and by the time it was instituted Japan was short of skilled pilots. The kamikazes wreaked a fair amount of havoc as it was; allowing a large number of very good pilots to give their lives for the Emperor might give the suicide pilots a punch out of line with their historic effectiveness.

Or it might be something else entirely. The fact that it now also costs victory points to convert a unit argues that the designers might be trying to keep Japanese players from going too kamikaze-happy, though. I think for the moment I will steer a moderate course with conversions until I see how effective they are in combat.

I grapple with this issue too. I've been training pilots on LowNav attack for Kamikaze duty later in the war since early 1942. Clearly, this is earlier than the IJ forces did IRL. My training program smacks of precognition-knowing that a desperation weapon will be needed-and training accordingly because I can. Kind of a gray zone for me as well.
But if the developers somehow only cared about EXP for kamikaze fliers and not the appropriate skill, then you're not being 'gamey' by focusing on what the developers deemed of lesser import.

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