Slitherine

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And these are all computer games.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

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You left out The Eagle and the Sun!

In the immortal words of Gimli the dwarf: "It was deliberate."

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Why,Its one of the prettiest games I ever bought.Too bad the rules are a total FUBAR.

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

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ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I dunno. I looked at the top of the forum page and it reads "Matrix GAMES Forums".  It's a realistic game, but a game nonetheless. 

Me too. But this is a very complex topic, ilovestrategy. It could also be ConSim. Probably depending on what you ate at breakfast.

It seems that to decide what it is, is VERY important to our future and the future of WitP AE, as it will change something FUNDAMENTAL about the way we look at the map
of the Pacific. I don´t know what, but mdiehl wil explain for sure.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

It's a Consim, or claims to be one, period, no matter what anyone else says. The expectation therefore is that it should not generate wildly implausible results when the players choices result in engagements that are broadly analogous to historical ones. That's why people buy Consims, rather than simply play chess or checkers.

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

It claims, by advertising and subject material, to be a Consim. It may not be a well designed one though.

If it was just all about "playing a game" there's whole arenas where one doesn't expect the game engine to be indexed to anything real, because wars of Middle Earth, Klendathu, the Federation, the Kzin, etc. are fictional.

But someone else already addressed your claim. If advert campaign for WitP said "It's only a game, so don't expect much" then people who buy WW2 consims would avoid it like the plague.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."

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ORIGINAL: ckammp

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."

Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.

As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.

Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.

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War in the Pacific has detail never before achieved in a game of this scale before. .... "If you are in the market for a seriously detailed WWII strategic simulation...


http://www.matrixgames.com/Games/WarInThePacific/main.asp

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Pax your new avatar is awesome!

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ORIGINAL: Shark7



I play WiTP:AE to relax and have fun, there for it is a game, period. No matter what anyone else wants to call it, I'm not running a sim to see if carrier Akagi is sunk at Midway 99 out of 100 times, I'm playing simply to have fun. It's a game.

I think if everyone would remember why they are playing instead of trying to define what they are playing we'd all be happier.

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Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.

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As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.

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Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.

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ORIGINAL: mjk428

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ORIGINAL: ckammp

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."

Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.

As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.

Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.

It was already posted on the previous page. Try reading the whole thread next time.

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War in the Pacific has detail never before achieved in a game of this scale before. .... "If you are in the market for a seriously detailed WWII strategic simulation...


http://www.matrixgames.com/Games/WarInThePacific/main.asp

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Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.

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ORIGINAL: ckammp


Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.

Try to focus on the correct game, okay?

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War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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ORIGINAL: mjk428

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ORIGINAL: ckammp


Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.

Try to focus on the correct game, okay?

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War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

AE was built upon WitP. In fact originally WitP was going to be required - partly because AE was even more detailed than it's predecessor.

You're in a deep hole. Stop digging.

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ORIGINAL: ckammp

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ORIGINAL: mjk428

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ORIGINAL: ckammp


Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.

Try to focus on the correct game, okay?

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War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

AE was built upon WitP. In fact originally WitP was going to be required - partly because AE was even more detailed than it's predecessor.

You're in a deep hole. Stop digging.

Perhaps you and mdiehl should actually read the product page for AE. It is described as a game 5 different time, nowhere is it called a Consim. On the same page, WitP is also called a game, not a Consim.

Your only quote about AE is that it is in, in fact a game?

The only ones with their heads in a hole, afraid to admit the truth, are you and mdiehl.

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A wargame is a strategy game that deals with military operations of various types, real or fictional. Wargaming is the hobby dedicated to the play of such games, which can also be called conflict simulations, or consims for short. When used professionally to study warfare, it is generally known as a military exercise or war game. Note that hobby wargamers have traditionally run the two words together, but the military has generally kept them separate; it is not a hard and fast rule, however. Although there may be disagreements as to whether a particular game qualifies as a wargame or not, a general consensus exists that all such games must explore and illuminate or simulate some feature or aspect of human behaviour directly bearing on the conduct of war, even if the game subject itself does not concern organized violent conflict or warfare.[1] The business wargames exists too, but in general they are only role playing games based on market situations.

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Based on the award winning War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games and Matrix Games, the standalone expansion, Gary Grigsby’s War in the Pacific - Admiral’s Edition, adds significant improvements and changes to the original title to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition is the most realistic and engrossing WWII Pacific theatre game available. The immense scale is 40 miles per hex with losses covering individual vehicles, aircraft, guns and squads. Since half the planet Earth is covered by the titanic Pacific struggle, the game is massive in scope, covering thousands of ships tens of thousands of aircraft.

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ORIGINAL: mjk428

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ORIGINAL: Shark7



I play WiTP:AE to relax and have fun, there for it is a game, period. No matter what anyone else wants to call it, I'm not running a sim to see if carrier Akagi is sunk at Midway 99 out of 100 times, I'm playing simply to have fun. It's a game.

I think if everyone would remember why they are playing instead of trying to define what they are playing we'd all be happier.

Bully for you. Not everybody is you. Some people have higher expectations from a $100 historical wargame.

You'd be satisfied with AE 1.0 or even AE beta. Thank goodness the AE team didn't sit on their laurels.

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ORIGINAL: Shark7

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ORIGINAL: mjk428

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ORIGINAL: Shark7



I play WiTP:AE to relax and have fun, there for it is a game, period. No matter what anyone else wants to call it, I'm not running a sim to see if carrier Akagi is sunk at Midway 99 out of 100 times, I'm playing simply to have fun. It's a game.

I think if everyone would remember why they are playing instead of trying to define what they are playing we'd all be happier.

Bully for you. Not everybody is you. Some people have higher expectations from a $100 historical wargame.

You'd be satisfied with AE 1.0 or even AE beta. Thank goodness the AE team didn't sit on their laurels.

Well I'm sorry for you then. And here is a suggestion, since it appears you are not enjoying the game then perhaps its best if you find one that you do enjoy. And I play the current ongoing beta of the game, just because I consider it a game doesn't mean I don't want it to be better. The difference is simple: It is a game, I do not expect it to play like a 100% realistic simulation. I don't want a replay of WWII in the Pacific, I can watch news reels and get that.

You see I do expect a lot from a game I spent nearly $100 for. I expect it to be fun and re-playable, not for it to be so much work and micro-management that I feel like I'm back at the office.

It seems some people here want to have to figure every gallon of fuel they use or figure out the logistics of supplying the beans, bullets and gas of a fully equipped unit in the field. Most of us don't. I know for me the generic supply and fuel points work just fine...it simulates it without being monotonous. And I get the feeling if you had to track every round of .45 calibre ammo, some of the grognards would still not be satisfied for one reason or another. Basically some people are just never satisfied.

Most people play this game to enjoy some down time, not to end up with a second accounting job. Speaking of which, arguing over this is not conducive to fun either, so I think this is my last comment on it. So my closing thought is either you enjoy the game or you don't. I'm one of those that does.

Have a nice day.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Wow. Talk about your basic semantic harisplitting evasiveness.

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ORIGINAL: oldman45

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 3 pages

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

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ORIGINAL: oldman45

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 3 pages

And yet the burning issue of bear markets and Kondratieff long term cycles remain unaddressed. Some people have no prespective on the things which really matter.

Alfred

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Hairsplitting AND hijacking, mdiehl.

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You've made your point-whatever it may be-now can we please let the poor OP flesh out the discussion he originally intended?

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Perhaps you can start a thread on the forum and 'bump' it whenever you wished to argue your position on the game vs. sim argument?