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RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units in USSR?

 
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RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units... - 9/3/2011 5:12:00 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		It was basically a college textbook, with a set of 10 'problems' to consider from multiple viewpoints every few chapters. I borrowed it from a co-worker on a job I just finished (and am headed for home), so I may not ever see the book again. I could recommend it particularly for the way it synthesizes many historical viewpoints including Tsarist historians of the 19th Century; I mostly wanted to read a good overview on Kiev/Novgorod. However it is a general history and if you are interested in the details of things like Russia during Napoleonic times there would be better volumes focusing on smaller amounts of time. Here is a link to a new, updated version; I read the 1970s edition:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/403083.A_History_of_Russia_the_Soviet_Union_and_Beyond

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 31
RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units... - 9/4/2011 1:03:50 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline 		For what it is worth, I just finished reading a 1947 "I was there" book, Roosevelt and Hopkins by one of FDR's speechwriters.

The author says that, in 1942, Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin agreed to create a US/Commonwealth manned Air Force to be stationed in the Caucacus, but by the time the route through Iran was secured, and the planes were available, the crisis has passed.

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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 32
RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units... - 9/4/2011 2:52:51 AM   
elxaime

 

Posts: 304
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		There are two separate questions here:

1. Whether the UK/US could have deployed substantial ground forces into the USSR if asked
2. Whether Stalin would have ever made such a request

The answer to #1 seems no, at least in 1941-1944. The UK was hard pressed to defend its empire. The US needed to gear up its war machine from scratch. They could send materiel, which they did.

The answer to #2 is unknowable. Every argument about Stalin's intentions is based on the the historic situation. The Soviet Union, although in desperate straits in late 1941 and again to a much lesser extent in late 1942, never reached the point where a total collapse loomed. Unlike 1812, Moscow never fell. Leningrad held on by the barest margins. The likelihood of total Soviet defeat- which was probably the trigger point if Stalin was going to ask for ground help - evaporated when the Red Army launched their winter 1941 counteroffensive. By 1942, although they awaited the German offensive with trepidation, the Red Army was in a much better position to resist. The success of the German invasion, increasingly revealed as a desperate gamble that had failed, now rested on Hitler's wildly ambitious 1942 plans. Stalingrad put an end to any reasonable notion the USSR might lose (assuming no Nazi nuclear weapons). Now the only question was how long it would take to win. Seen in retrospect, if there was a window for Stalin to grasp at any help he could, it was a very narrow one that had closed by 1943. How the USSR treated the Doolittle Raiders, British sailors in Murmansk, B-17 air bases in 1944 in Ukraine, etc. doesn't provide a solid guide for answering question two - the circumstances of all those are explicable in other terms and/or occurred when the Soviets were no longer desperate.


(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 33
RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units... - 9/4/2011 5:07:11 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		Stalin was asking for a second front in 1942. Why would want Commonwealth and US troops in the USSR when he could have a second front?

The New York Times

The Prime Minister had met Premier Stalin once before in the autumn of 1942, when he journeyed to Moscow to explain to him why it was impossible for the United States and Britain to invade the continent of Europe from the west that year.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 9/15/2011 1:28:13 AM >

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(in reply to elxaime)
Post #: 34
RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units... - 9/14/2011 6:47:27 PM   
Edfactor


Posts: 106
Joined: 6/13/2008
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Sure he would let them in, but I doubt he would let them out.

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 35
RE: Any evidence Stalin would have allowed UK/USA units... - 9/21/2011 11:42:03 PM   
trooper76

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		Only if they met FTC requirements..:D

(in reply to Edfactor)
Post #: 36
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