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Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 8:02:31 AM

vlcz

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From: Spain
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Practical case : November 1941 PBEM, all axis airforces are virtually exterminated. How things come this way? Massed bombing against airbases, centered on fighter ones. 35-50 attacks PER TURN.

I am sure that my management of airforce has not been right but even so this seem not right. I have read similar situations and complaints against this massed attacks, but how do you cope with them?

Do you use a home rule to limit airbase attacks?
Any defensive tactic?
Keep a �magical� distance to the front?

Thanks in advance

Post #: 1

RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 9:10:52 AM

tigercub

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The Luftwaffe had control of the sky in 41 and 42 and still most of 43 and could carve air gaps in 44 at times with there elite fighter groups...but was far from what they were in the early days, but the game does not give the full feel of how it was as yet!

< Message edited by tigercub -- 8/31/2011 9:57:29 AM >

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 9:37:30 AM

KenchiSulla

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I would like to suggest a houserule on that:

No more then 1 attack on airbase per airbase per turn (with exception on turn 1). That should fix your problem, at least until they get time to work on the airgame.

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 9:59:47 AM

Zebedee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

I would like to suggest a houserule on that:

No more then 1 attack on airbase per airbase per turn (with exception on turn 1). That should fix your problem, at least until they get time to work on the airgame.

The proposed limit on raising DL level of airfields to 5 for 1.05 ought to help limit things a bit. (On the other hand, would be interested on its impact on turn one German strikes on Soviet airfields though sure the devs and testers are fully aware of that already).

But air war is wonky at the moment, as devs have said and promised to work on, so the house rule to limit yourself on some things is a really good one. It feels wrong to even abuse the AI in that way

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 10:32:08 AM

glvaca

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Wouldn't it help if we could attach LW flak SU's to airbases?
You can only attach them now to the HQ's. Are they "send out" like other SU's attached to Corps HQ's when an airbase attached to them is attacked?

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 11:08:34 AM

KenchiSulla

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From: the Netherlands
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Actually, I don't know enough about the air war in the east to determine what is fair and plausible and what is not... Perhaps soviet level bombing is just to accurate..

EDIT promptly decided to order Air war over Russia by Andrew Brooks..

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/31/2011 11:41:39 AM >

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 11:23:48 AM

vlcz

Posts: 387
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quote:

Wouldn't it help if we could attach LW flak SU's to airbases?
You can only attach them now to the HQ's. Are they "send out" like other SU's attached to Corps HQ's when an airbase attached to them is attacked?

Late in the campaign I tryed forming "death stars" stacking two airbases with a HQ with 9+ flak units, losses were HUGE for the first attacks...but 40 attacks later the air units were in tatters anyway... Perhaps that tactic would make the trick if tried from the beginning , but seems strange anyway

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 1:01:06 PM

BletchleyGeek

Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

quote:

Wouldn't it help if we could attach LW flak SU's to airbases?
You can only attach them now to the HQ's. Are they "send out" like other SU's attached to Corps HQ's when an airbase attached to them is attacked?

Late in the campaign I tryed forming "death stars" stacking two airbases with a HQ with 9+ flak units, losses were HUGE for the first attacks...but 40 attacks later the air units were in tatters anyway... Perhaps that tactic would make the trick if tried from the beginning , but seems strange anyway

40 air attacks in one single turn? Anyways, it's all about fatigue: if the AAA ground elements get too fatigued they won't be being very effective.

PS: BTW, I like you avatar :)

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 1:19:17 PM

vlcz

Posts: 387
Joined: 8/24/2009
From: Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
40 air attacks in one single turn? Anyways, it's all about fatigue: if the AAA ground elements get too fatigued they won't be being very effective.

Yes, the trick in the "exploit" is all aboput that repetition ,as debated in the original thread on the forum:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?=2850164&mpage=2&key=air%2Cexploit�

There seems to be people who thinks it is some kind of "historic posibility"

, I really cannot see this as plausible so my search for alternative home rules (only 1 attack /airbase as noted maybe too restrictive?).

quote:

PS: BTW, I like you avatar :)

Some kind of "neutral"-ising yours

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Post #: 9

RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 1:39:43 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz
There seems to be people who thinks it is some kind of "historic posibility" , I really cannot see this as plausible so my search for alternative home rules (only 1 attack /airbase as noted maybe too restrictive?).

Yeah, this certainly seems unhistorical, and I refrained from these attacks for a long time, but the air war is so messed up that I got tired of accepting the whupping from the Luftwaffe. It's kind of shocking that you could have suffered that kind of losses by July 1941, might be too late to rectify at this point.

Judging from the effectiveness of my opponent's tactics, I think the best countermoves would be to keep your airbases further back and put them in bigger concentrations.

(in reply to vlcz)

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 1:54:28 PM

Captain

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"historic possibility" is a stretch. The VVS did attack LW airbases from time to time and did score some successes. I remember reading about an attack on a LW airbase in early 42 that knocked out around 40 Ju-52.

But there is no way the VVS could have knocked out the LW in 41 with airbase attacks. The LW was superior in all aspects: pilot training/experience, equipment and doctrine. Sustained VVS attacks on LW airbases would have been very costly with the bombers being intercepted by fighters from nearby bases both on the ingress and egress.

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 2:59:35 PM

Flaviusx

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Not gonna lie. I myself have a gentleman's agreement not to cheese this with my German opponents. We're looking at ways of fixing this, but it's not easy.

In the meantime, it's probably best to go with a house rule.

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 4:09:20 PM

BletchleyGeek

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From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
40 air attacks in one single turn? Anyways, it's all about fatigue: if the AAA ground elements get too fatigued they won't be being very effective.

Yes, the trick in the "exploit" is all aboput that repetition ,as debated in the original thread on the forum:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?=2850164&mpage=2&key=air%2Cexploit�

There seems to be people who thinks it is some kind of "historic posibility" , I really cannot see this as plausible so my search for alternative home rules (only 1 attack /airbase as noted maybe too restrictive?).

Flavius says House rules... I say just to patiently sit down until I get an e-mail from my opponent like this:

"Hi,

I'm writing to you because I won't be able to play for some time. I just got diagnosed something called 'carpal tunnel syndrome', and getting my right hand to use the mouse causes a lot of pain.

Cheers,

X.

PS: This is X wife, I wrote the message. Please, leave him alone or his hand won't get well"

Carpal tunnel attrition 4TW!

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RE: Air warfare..Home rules? Luftwaffe survival tricks? - 8/31/2011 6:03:47 PM

heliodorus04

Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
40 air attacks in one single turn? Anyways, it's all about fatigue: if the AAA ground elements get too fatigued they won't be being very effective.

Yes, the trick in the "exploit" is all aboput that repetition ,as debated in the original thread on the forum:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?=2850164&mpage=2&key=air%2Cexploit�

There seems to be people who thinks it is some kind of "historic posibility" , I really cannot see this as plausible so my search for alternative home rules (only 1 attack /airbase as noted maybe too restrictive?).

Flavius says House rules... I say just to patiently sit down until I get an e-mail from my opponent like this:

"Hi,

I'm writing to you because I won't be able to play for some time. I just got diagnosed something called 'carpal tunnel syndrome', and getting my right hand to use the mouse causes a lot of pain.

Cheers,

X.

PS: This is X wife, I wrote the message. Please, leave him alone or his hand won't get well"

Carpal tunnel attrition 4TW!

I'm going to use this whenever I have to resign as the German :)

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Post #: 14