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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Trick or Treat

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RE: Trick or Treat - 11/4/2011 5:50:41 AM

DOCUP

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Alfred thanks again. I had forgot about there being a date for drop tanks.
About Pbang I just realized I have been doing a Greyjoyism with Pburg. Great, atleast CR missed that one.

Pbang I expect or atleast hope that the troops will retreat the the base hex tot he south. There is an AF there, from there I will try to move them down to Osthaven there I can use both patrol and transport planes. Atleast that is my plan. As we all know my plans don't workout very well.

He bought alot of stuff with him on this invasion. I don't know how long my guys will put up a fight. I know he has some diablments. I'm wondering if I should just send all my bombers here instead of attacking Singers AF.

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Post #: 241

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/5/2011 3:18:53 AM

zuluhour

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Alfred may correct me here. but I would try to get a unit to hold open the desired retreat path. I was surrounded at Palembang, still am, so I have little choice. Thanks for posting the units you have there. I would guess your 150AV stronger than I. I am at about 280AV.

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Post #: 242

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/5/2011 8:12:19 AM

DOCUP

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Ok, this really sucks. I get the turn while I'm at work. Koniu writes that something bad has happened. Ahhhh, what has happened I want to know. I'm stuck at work and can't play the turn. The anticipation is killing me.

Am I the only one that feels this way when this happens? Now I must get home to see what happened. Maybe just maybe it happened to him.

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Post #: 243

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/5/2011 2:24:01 PM

DOCUP

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31th Jan

KB east of Pbang
MKB unknown

Koniu stated that he made a mistake in this next turn. HMM what could it be. I had thought that I got hammered some where. Guess not I can breath a sigh of relief.

So where did he make a mistake. HMM ground attack at Pbang with disrupted troops or ground attack at Chenchow? I want to know.

Quiet turn

Pbang
He plastered it fromt he air. Landed the rest of his troops. I have 494 AV here.

Thats about it. Time to finish the turn and go to bed.

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Post #: 244

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/6/2011 2:27:11 AM

zuluhour

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The situation I faced at Palembang, please avoid this.

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Post #: 245

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/6/2011 4:16:21 AM

DOCUP

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Zulu I don't have to worry about that anymore.

1st Feb

KB south of Singers
MKB unknown

Pbang
Pbang was captures today. We lost 6,000 to his 3,000. Our troops withdrew to the base south of Pbang. Evacuation of those troops will begin now.

Ambon
Hermes got caught by some bettys. She took 4 TTs 34/78/?, a CA took 2 TT. No fires on either ship they will make for Ambon at 3 knots (cruise speed). A P40E sqd will LRCAP them. These planes came from Kendri. Bombing of Kendri AF will start tom.

PI
delib attack at Bataan cost him 6,600 and us 1,600.

China
Bombardment attacks at Kukong and Chengchow. I expect an attack at Chengchow tom. I only have 200 AV here. I was able to pull out 1,200 AV and 15,000 supplies. My P40s tangled with his Oscars, 3 Oscars went down for 3 of the Chinese biplanes.

Burma
lots of sweeps and recon flights.

My ASW TFs won't attack they always abandon the search. These attacks are in shallow water too.

I think Hermes will make it to Ambon, unless the bettys make it thru the LRCAP. Air losses are close between us. This makes me happy. I am starting to bring in better fighters and in better numbers. It's time to start fighting in the air. I know I can't stand toe to toe with him but I can start whittling him down.

Ground units are putting up good fights. The Dutch givin up after one fight disappoints me. Other wise I am happy.

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Post #: 246

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/6/2011 7:07:28 AM

Alfred

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Don't forget to look at these SRA Warhawk units to see if they are available for only a short time before they need to be withdrawn. Also look at the quality of the pilots in the units. You may have to decide whether it isn't better to preserve the airframes for use by better quality pilots in units not scheduled for withdrawal in the short term. Alternatively if you decide it is best to go toe to toe with Zeros and Oscars, you might be better off bringing into the units all those trained pilots in reserve.

Alfred

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Post #: 247

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/7/2011 2:03:28 PM

DOCUP

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Alfred thanks for you suggestions. I agree with you on them, but then again I'd be stupid not to really look at tips from a pro.

Heres a question. Hermes was sunk. I am thinking of buying out that sqd. Is it worth it?

2nd Feb

KB Singers
MKB unknown

Ambon
Hermes is sunk. He came in with Oscars as escorts. They chewed up my P40s I lost 7 to his 4 Oscars and one Betty. We are bombing Kendri tom.

Pbang
His troops are on the move. A bombing mission is a go for here.

Wake
2 subs get hit today. An RO hits a mine and an I boat gets 3 times.

Pago Pago
A xAK gets hit by a TT. The sub an I boat takes a beating atleast 3 penatration hits. This sub and the RO are in my sunk list but not on my points list. Another I boat gets slapped around in this area.

P38s are in Sydney. New pilots are making their way to join there new planes. I have taken pilots with air (68+) and def (68+).

Chengchow was captured today. I lost 5,800 to his 2,250. 3 units destroyed, they will come back meaner than before.

Balikpapan was captured today also. I lost 186 to his 284.

SoPac
No movement in the area

CetPac
Nothing

NoPac
Nothing

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Post #: 248

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/7/2011 10:40:01 PM

zuluhour

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I say enjoy the serenitity of nothing while you can. Build, prepare, and beware.

*&^% I want Big E and Hornet back!

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Post #: 249

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/8/2011 1:57:38 PM

DOCUP

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3rd Feb

KB Singers area
MKB unknow

Quiet turn. Bombings here and there. I bombed Pbang no losses for me cost him 150 ground troops. Hit Kendri no loses for me and few for him. I sunk and AP on the 2nd and damaged another sub

.

This turn I am turning loose all my 4E bombers againist Pbangs AF. My 2E bombers will go after the ground troops and a few planes will go after his ships in the same hex.

Lots of switching pilots around this turn.

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Post #: 250

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/8/2011 2:15:10 PM

DOCUP

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Pbang damage assesment.
I have no idea as to what these numbers mean.

Oil 850 (51) Refinery 962 (59) DL of 9/10

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Post #: 251

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/8/2011 11:22:07 PM

DOCUP

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4th Feb

KB unknown
MKB unknown

Pbang
I plastered the air field, didn't lose any of my 4Es. I lost 11 2Es by attacking ground troops. Lost 3 FPs trying to attack his shipping. He ground attacks my units there. Dutch sub misses an xAK.

Darwin
He launches 27 Bettys after a transport TF, he lost 15 for one xAK.

China
Wuchow is captured. I don't care he was killing me with his ground bombing here. He has been sweeping Changsha with 50 plus oscars. I have move my fighters to Sian to cover the withdraw of my LCUs. Ichang is defended by a divison and a eng rgt. HMM I have 1,800 AV here. Not for sure it would be worth it to attack him here.

Another sub takes a single hit.

I am standing down my bombers. I will plan on more raids in near future.

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Post #: 252

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/8/2011 11:53:47 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Pbang damage assesment.
I have no idea as to what these numbers mean.

Oil 850 (51)� Refinery 962 (59)� DL of 9/10

The DL = Detection Level. The maximum possible is level 10 and you have achieved level 9. So the intel provided about the situation at that location is highly accurate. Note however chapter 10 of the manual which deals with detection. Unless you continue to run recon over the site, your level 9 detection will quickly drop.

The figures in brackets = the damaged centres. Assuming the oil centres were completely undamaged prior to the raid, the figures show this raid caused about 5% damage to the oil and refinery centres. That is quite a good outcome as not only does it reduces the production but imposes a 110k supply cost to fully repair the damage caused by this single raid (again assuming there was no pre-existing damage).

Alfred

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Post #: 253

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/9/2011 12:00:28 AM

DOCUP

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Thanks Alfred. I have a recon unit flying over Pbang now. I want to keep the AF closed so that he has to use his fighters at extended range. I haven't built up any of the other AFs to make this happen.

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Post #: 254

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/9/2011 12:12:14 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

... Heres a question.� Hermes was sunk.� I am thinking of buying out that sqd.� Is it worth it? ...

Depends.

Which air unit did you have embarked on the Hermes? If it was a Swordfish unit you have to take into account the following factors.

1. There is a 12 month delay before the unit returns, so if you are going to do it, do it sooner rather than later. What this really means is you have to project the battlefield out 12 months and envisage how it will look like and whether you will be able to gainfully use the unit.

2. In assessing point (1) above you also need to take into account whether you will have trained pilots to immediately place into the unit or whether an additional delay in using the unit will result from having to train the pilots. Of course the 12 month delay, if you have an appropriate spare training unit, does provide you with an opportunity to fully train pilots in advance.

3. The PP cost should not be too high as the unit will be quite small. Personnally I wouldn't be deterred by the PP cost.

4. The real consideration is whether you have sufficient airframes, either in pool or to be produced, to get full value out of the unit. In this assessment don't forget to take into account possible aircraft upgrades, which upgraded airframes might lack having many air units to be deployed in.

5. If all else fails, you can always use the unit for training purposes only, thereby releasing another unit currently engaged on training for frontline use.

So it depends. I would lean towards buying it but would reserve a final decision until more data is provided.

Alfred

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Post #: 255

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/9/2011 12:16:39 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Thanks Alfred.� I have a recon unit flying over Pbang now.� I want to keep the AF closed so that he has to use his fighters at extended range.� I haven't built up any of the other AFs to make this happen.

Good thinking about the extended range, Batman.

Not really necessary to build up any additional airfields. You don't really want to gift the enemy with good infrasturcture when they are captured. I would concentrate 100% on building up the fortifications.

Alfred

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Post #: 256

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/9/2011 12:19:08 AM

DOCUP

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Thanks again Alfred.

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RE: Trick or Treat - 11/9/2011 8:58:25 PM

DOCUP

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5th Feb

KB off Java
MKB unknown

Rangoon
We loose 26 Hurris to his 5 Zeros

. I had them on high low with decent pilots. First his Oscars (10) sweept my 35 Hurris. We don't shoot down one Oscar. Next came his Zeros (26) to my 25 Hurris. I shoot down 5 Zeros. I am not for sure how many the Oscars Ic or the Zeros shot down. What can I do to stop this maddness. Rant over

DEI
He's prepareing for an invasion of Java proper. I don't know where he is going, no intel. I can see his ships prepareing and moving towards Java. Once he gets on Java, I will start a slow evac of my air units. Some ground units will be evacd also.

Pago Pago
Resupply convoy just arrived. I see the subs coming. I have 2 ASW TFs here. Lets see what happens.

Dutch sub puts a TT into an AK. RO boat sinks an AKL off of Carins.

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Post #: 258

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/10/2011 8:26:17 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Rangoon
We loose 26 Hurris to his 5 Zeros.� I had them on high low with decent pilots.� First his Oscars (10)�sweept my 35 Hurris.� We don't shoot down one Oscar.� Next came his Zeros (26) to my 25 Hurris.� I shoot down 5 Zeros.� I am not for sure how many the Oscars Ic or the Zeros shot down.� What can I do to stop this maddness.� Rant over

Would need more data to provide meaningful commentary.

However I don't think it was necessarily the disaster you seem to think it was.

1. You were probably greatly mismatched in terms of pilot quality.

2. You did not specify which Hurricane model you were flying. The Hurricane I is greatly outclassed by Oscars and Zeros but can hold its own against Nates. The I model has a poor maximum speed and that is arguably the single most important performance characteristic for a fighter. Subsequent Hurricane models have a noticeable improvement to their maximum speed.

3. Generally speaking, layering your CAP altitude is the right thing to do. However to maximise the benefit you are generally better off having at least two different aircraft models present, sacrificing the less capable airframe down below and allowing the more capable airframe to sweep down on the enemy plane drawn down.

4. At first glance a 5:1 ratio in destroyed airframes is not a particularly good outcome. However there is more to be taken into account:

(a) being on the defensive over your own base you probably achieved a much higher per centage of pilot recovery. In terms of permanently lost pilots the ratio was probably more along 3:1

(b) you were almost certainly exchaning semi trained pilots for TRACOM quality Japanese pilots

(c) it sounds like you didn't pay close attention to the combat animation so you don't really know whether you dished out a lot of damage to the enemy aircraft, in particular the Oscars. It is quite likely some of the returning enemy aircraft succumbed to their damage and this would not be reflected in the combat report

I realise that many who post in the AE forum quickly rant whenever they encounter an unpleasant outcome. That isn't the way to ultimate success, instead a cool assessment of what transpired is always required. As the Allied player you are going to receive many unpleasant outcomes in the first 6 months of the war.

As it is you don't seem to be doing too badly at this stage.

Alfred

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Post #: 259

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/10/2011 10:25:23 PM

DOCUP

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Here is the situation.

He didn't land in Java, he landed at Oosthaven.� Look below at screenies.� I have 2 CLs and 4 DDs close by.� I am thinking about sending these guys up welcome the invasion force.� I was thinking of doing 2 TFs of a CL and 2 DDs.� Should I break them down or send them all together?� Or should I just run.� We all�know that I haven't done a good job with my naval forces.� The KB is really close by.� I see a SAG of 2 CLs and DDs.� I also have a PT boat TF going in.

By the way I just cut down 17 Kates from the KB.�

Edit: Alfred I will get back with you on your post, as always thanks for posting your advise and thoughts.

< Message edited by DOCUP -- 11/10/2011 10:26:57 PM >

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RE: Trick or Treat - 11/10/2011 10:26:00 PM

DOCUP

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situation 1

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RE: Trick or Treat - 11/10/2011 10:26:36 PM

DOCUP

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screenie 2

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RE: Trick or Treat - 11/11/2011 12:11:25 AM

zuluhour

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The air war is a tough nut for the Allies. I know I want to commit groups to the fight as soon as I can, but learned some serious lessons from the IJA in the PI and over Singapore. I guess I made 20-30 aces for Terry in 45 days. Anyway hang tough with me, I am 90 days ahead of you and groups are on the way. I am

root'in fer ya!

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 11/11/2011 12:12:25 AM >

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Post #: 263

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/11/2011 9:25:15 PM

DOCUP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Rangoon
We loose 26 Hurris to his 5 Zeros.� I had them on high low with decent pilots.� First his Oscars (10)�sweept my 35 Hurris.� We don't shoot down one Oscar.� Next came his Zeros (26) to my 25 Hurris.� I shoot down 5 Zeros.� I am not for sure how many the Oscars Ic or the Zeros shot down.� What can I do to stop this maddness.� Rant over

Would need more data to provide meaningful commentary.

However I don't think it was necessarily the disaster you seem to think it was.

1. You were probably greatly mismatched in terms of pilot quality.

2. You did not specify which Hurricane model you were flying. The Hurricane I is greatly outclassed by Oscars and Zeros but can hold its own against Nates. The I model has a poor maximum speed and that is arguably the single most important performance characteristic for a fighter. Subsequent Hurricane models have a noticeable improvement to their maximum speed.

3. Generally speaking, layering your CAP altitude is the right thing to do. However to maximise the benefit you are generally better off having at least two different aircraft models present, sacrificing the less capable airframe down below and allowing the more capable airframe to sweep down on the enemy plane drawn down.

4. At first glance a 5:1 ratio in destroyed airframes is not a particularly good outcome. However there is more to be taken into account:

(a) being on the defensive over your own base you probably achieved a much higher per centage of pilot recovery. In terms of permanently lost pilots the ratio was probably more along 3:1

(b) you were almost certainly exchaning semi trained pilots for TRACOM quality Japanese pilots

(c) it sounds like you didn't pay close attention to the combat animation so you don't really know whether you dished out a lot of damage to the enemy aircraft, in particular the Oscars. It is quite likely some of the returning enemy aircraft succumbed to their damage and this would not be reflected in the combat report

I realise that many who post in the AE forum quickly rant whenever they encounter an unpleasant outcome. That isn't the way to ultimate success, instead a cool assessment of what transpired is always required. As the Allied player you are going to receive many unpleasant outcomes in the first 6 months of the war. As it is you don't seem to be doing too badly at this stage.

Alfred

Alfred:

I didn't think it was a disaster. I was hopeing for more out of them.

1. I'd have to agree with you here.

2. They were IIa (2 sqds) and IIb (2 sqds). I had them high and low with my best pilots on high (1 IIa, 1 IIb).

3. Will try that in the future.

4. No I didn't, I always look at the Air Lost List. I will try and watch both next time.

Agreed, Cussin and Fussin (ranting) dosen't help the game, but it makes me feel bette

. Now don't get me wrong I love this game. I can't stop playing it. I also understand that I will have my arse handed to me for a long time to come and then still after that. Thanks for your compliment about my game. As always thanks for your advise and kind words Alfred.

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Post #: 264

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/11/2011 9:42:59 PM

DOCUP

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This is a review of 2 days

KB IO off Java
MKB unknown

DEI
He landed at Oosthaven. One of his xAPs hit a mine. The base was undefended. He captured Praboemoelih.

Java
I had a SAG refueling at Tjilatjap. The day before he hit a resupply TF and sunk 4 xAKs. I had set up a small CAP here. His Kates came in unescorted, the air lost screen has 23 Kates destroyed.

Christmas Is
He sinks a TK. I had an ASW TF of DD's here they didn't attack.

Burma
The first Jap unit is seen in Burma.

An RO sub takes 5 hits from my APDs in the middle of BFE.

Day 2

DEI
Oosthaven falls. The wounded xAP is sunk by a Dutch sub. I had planned to launch air strikes againist his TFs, but they left before we could strike. I divided up the SAG in Java and sent them in 2 different directions. He didn't attack.

Java
He sent his Zero's to sweep Soerabja. 11 Zero's lost, I lost 13 P40Es, 8 B339s, 3 Hawks. I am happy with this. Yes, I know the ratio is bad, but with him looseing the Kates and these Zeros. He will have to leave the area to refill his sqds. The best part is I didn't have my best P40E sqd there. They were doing escort duty. They will return to help out if he wants to sweep again. If he stays in the area. I might try and launch strikes againist him.

Christmas Is
An AO eats a TT, again the ASW TF didn't do a thing. I have a good CDR in the TF.

Sweeps every where. I have reports of a div prepping for PM, it is on it's way to Rabaul now. I plan to have some suprises for him here.

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Post #: 265

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/11/2011 9:45:48 PM

DOCUP

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Thanks Zulu. I will stand tall.

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RE: Trick or Treat - 11/11/2011 11:13:28 PM

DOCUP

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Koniu now has 3 bases with AFs. Pbang is still shut down, but I won't be able to shut down all of his bases. Units will now start to withdraw. Pbang has 40 ships in port. I think before my 4Es leave they will drop some respect here. I have a few ships in the repair yards at Soerabja. They are being taken off line and will try and be moved. I have one CL that will stay and risk it, it has to much damage.

I am trying to get some AA units to PM. I would like another eng unit but don't want to put to much here. I think I will try and move forward to Noumea and Luganville.

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Post #: 267

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/12/2011 3:41:28 AM

Alfred

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Don't overlook the Dutch AMc in your evacuation plans. Most of them are very short legged but can be usefully employed by the British and Americans to sweep locally their ports thereby releasing their minesweepers for escort or ASW missions. The Kiwis and Aussies have a reasonable number of them but not that many to spare for American use.

Alfred

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Post #: 268

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/12/2011 5:54:56 PM

DOCUP

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Alfred, I am doing that as we speak.

8th Feb

KB close to Ambon
MKB unknown

Pbang
Great bombing raid look at pic below. 2 Oscars shot down for 1 B17E ops. Bombing raids are a go again by 2Es.

CL Perth took a TT, it will make it back to port.

Singers
I see 70 ships in port with TK and AO. I have ordered bombers to fly and attack the port, theres not many bombers that can attack. I want to make him think twice about disbanding in ports close to my 4Es.

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Post #: 269

RE: Trick or Treat - 11/12/2011 5:56:44 PM

DOCUP

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A good day bombing. This should hurt him. Only 1 ship reported sunk from this but I heard sinking sounds thru the replay.

Also off of PM he landed Lae. I attacked with A24s and hit 3 xAKs.