RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J)

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J)

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J)

Page: << < prev 76 77 [78] 79 80 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/13/2015 5:29:48 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Congrats!

Did any of the Allied fighters scramble from the Carriers? Or was it all the airborne only fighters that engaged?

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2311

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/13/2015 5:37:40 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Congrats!

Did any of the Allied fighters scramble from the Carriers? Or was it all the airborne only fighters that engaged?

Initial CAP was only 22 fighters in air

I need watch replay again but i think less that half of enemy figters had chance to engage
Look at interception times
Raid was detected 36 minutes before arrive while most of groups engaged 30-40 minutes after detection so they have no time
For me it look like CAP/LCAP setting for groups. Instead over CV TF they where somewhere between CV hex and LCAP hex and air control was forced to recall them but it was to late

CAP engaged:
VMF-211/A with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VMF-123 /B with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 2 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 13 on standby, 18 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 20 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-14 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 20 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 17 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-50 with F6F-5 Hellcat (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 17 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
VF-51 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
VMF-441 with F4U-1A Corsair (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 16 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/13/2015 6:38:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2312

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/13/2015 6:07:40 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

turn send to Docup.

KB will retreat. Fuel is low.

I need to avoid Fletcher TF north on my position i sending SAG to intercept another SAG will protect KB.

DD Takanami collides with CVL Ryuho. DD is heavily damaged. CVL only paint scratch

Waiting for Docup reaction

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2313

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/13/2015 6:12:13 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

While you wait, what was the makeup of your carrier task forces...how many planes in each task force. Your settings for the strike...if not too much work.

I am kind of surprised there is no BBs with those big carriers for the Yanks...or have you sank most of them?

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2314

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/13/2015 6:23:54 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

While you wait, what was the makeup of your carrier task forces...how many planes in each task force. Your settings for the strike...if not too much work.

I am kind of surprised there is no BBs with those big carriers for the Yanks...or have you sank most of them?

All 700 dive and TT bombers at 14k, naval attack, range 8, 10% search

Fighters(550 total) more complicated
1/3 escort, 60% CAP, range 0, between 15-22k, one group at 7k (dedicated CAP)
1/3 escort, 0% CAP, range 8, at 14k (dedicated escort)
1/3 escort, 10-30%CAP, range 8, at 14k (they can both escort and CAP) low CAP mean that they will go escort in numbers or if not they will scramble for CAP from decks and that is much faster that recalling airborne fighters from long distance.

I have two CV TFs each ~550 planes (I never have problem with coordination)
If i can i will use single TF but game limit CV TF to 25 ships only and i want to have at lest 1DD for any carrier in TF

I saw there BBs but they disrepair in this turn. I believe they will magnet lot of bombers maybe saving some carriers by that.

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/13/2015 7:34:39 PM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2315

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/13/2015 7:10:42 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

That is how I organized my carriers too, before my last fight when I decided to break them down into 200 plane groups...big mistake as I had lots of problems with task forces staying together -- in truth my fault just not experienced at running so many task forces together. Live and learn.

I like your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 CAP setting...in my recent KB engagement I switched and used a dedicated 50% 0 hex CAP, and not a single plane scrambled...which has made me think whenever a KV clash is guessed at a 90 percent cap or even 100 percent cap might be better.

So many interacting cause and effects...tough to get a handle on.

Poor Docup, he must be horribly frustrated.

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2316

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 4:33:52 AM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

I offered for Docup redoing this turn.

It look that reason why only that single CV TF stay north of Ceram was Docup fighting with wife and just end turn without double checking orders.

I propose two solution.

1. Docup will use last middle turn save he have (just before ending turn) and he will change orders for only that single CV TF, and we will watch turn.(CVs will join his SAG he retreat south)

2. We both redone this turn. Both sides will retreat for starting positions. Both sides will stop offensive moves in area for 3-5 days for fresh start. Docup will not land in Namlea. Also Docup will not start invasions in other map areas for few days just because he know KB is in DEI.

Then we will decide what will be most fair solution for both of us.

Docup don`t ask for redo, it is my initiative because i want to end this game in late 1945 not now. How many of us have chance to play in 1945. Most of games ends much much earlier.

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2317

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 5:24:12 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Good-O!

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2318

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 6:37:12 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

I have a crazy idea.

If you look at IJN aircraft (Judy,Sam etc) and compare them to USN aircraft (Hellcat, Corsair), you will see the Japs have a big cruise speed advantage over American aircraft! Corsair/Hellcat fly 190/200 mph at cruise speed, while Judy/Sam cruise speeds are 265/259 mph. So a Jap raid is detected at 120 nautical miles and its ETA is 36 minutes.

Now, let's say Japs travel at 260 miles per hour. 260 mph/60 minutes = 4,3 miles per minute
120 miles/4.3 miles per minute = 27,90 minutes=rounded 28 minutes

Let�s say the Allied CV TF sits in the middle of a hex, and interception takes place at the NE hex�s edge. This means Japs are intercepted 22 miles away from the CV TF. Thus they don�t cover 120 miles , but 98 miles, or 100 miles rounded
So they will cover this distance in 23,5 minutes.

If Hellcats fly CAP at 0 range, and are positioned on the SW edge of the hex, they have to cover 46 miles at 190mph, which is 3,1 miles per minute. They will arrive on the NE edge of the hex after 14.8 minutes, or 15 minutes.

They patrol at 9,000 feet and have to climb to 17,000 feet at 3,000 feet per minute, which takes them another 3 minutes.

So they will arrive at the NE hex edge after 18 minutes of Jap attack detection.

The weather in hex is Heavy rain, so they have problems visually contacting the enemy, �cause US Navy fighters don�t have radars.

All this may explain why the Allied CAP is porous at this stage of the war.

If CAP fighters use cruise speeds for repositioning, then it would actually make sense to have a squadron of Buffaloes in a CV TF even in 1944/1945 since Buffaloes cruise speed is 258 mph. They will cover 46 miles in 11 minutes instead of Corsair/Hellcat 15 minutes.

Just a thought.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 4/14/2015 7:38:34 AM >

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 2319

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 7:35:34 AM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I like your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 CAP setting...in my recent KB engagement I switched and used a dedicated 50% 0 hex CAP, and not a single plane scrambled...which has made me think whenever a KV clash is guessed at a 90 percent cap or even 100 percent cap might be better.

Problem with heavy 80%+ CAP is that You will risk that enemy ride can catch You with pants down. Such CAP mean that all planes are in rotation so with bad conditions You can be attacked while many fighters is refueling on decks or they are going down after patrol to refuel. My experience show that huge CAP level gives nice numbers of planes against first Wave but after that CAP number drastically fast is degradating and next enemy waves can arrive with small opposition.

Balanced 50-60% CAP gives little smaller CAP at beginning (can be compensated with time given by radar warning) but when later waves arrive CAP is reinforced by fresh fighters. In my last battles i always set CAP at 60% and in all those fight I have at beginning at lest 70-100 fighters intercepting - enough to hold attackers long enough before reinforcements manage to climb up.

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/14/2015 8:40:21 AM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2320

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 10:38:37 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I offered for Docup redoing this turn.

It look that reason why only that single CV TF stay north of Ceram was Docup fighting with wife and just end turn without double checking orders.

I propose two solution.

1. Docup will use last middle turn save he have (just before ending turn) and he will change orders for only that single CV TF, and we will watch turn.(CVs will join his SAG he retreat south)

2. We both redone this turn. Both sides will retreat for starting positions. Both sides will stop offensive moves in area for 3-5 days for fresh start. Docup will not land in Namlea. Also Docup will not start invasions in other map areas for few days just because he know KB is in DEI.

Then we will decide what will be most fair solution for both of us.

Docup don`t ask for redo, it is my initiative because i want to end this game in late 1945 not now. How many of us have chance to play in 1945. Most of games ends much much earlier.

Option 1 seems most fair and least disruptive. I agree it's important to get it right and continue. Jocke and I did do this several times, and although at moments we had tension around some issues, in general the relationship stayed good and we still have a good rapport. It's a long time to get to 45! Take the chance if you have it.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2321

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 2:06:22 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I have a crazy idea.

If you look at IJN aircraft (Judy,Sam etc) and compare them to USN aircraft (Hellcat, Corsair), you will see the Japs have a big cruise speed advantage over American aircraft! Corsair/Hellcat fly 190/200 mph at cruise speed, while Judy/Sam cruise speeds are 265/259 mph. So a Jap raid is detected at 120 nautical miles and its ETA is 36 minutes.

Now, let's say Japs travel at 260 miles per hour. 260 mph/60 minutes = 4,3 miles per minute
120 miles/4.3 miles per minute = 27,90 minutes=rounded 28 minutes

Let�s say the Allied CV TF sits in the middle of a hex, and interception takes place at the NE hex�s edge. This means Japs are intercepted 22 miles away from the CV TF. Thus they don�t cover 120 miles , but 98 miles, or 100 miles rounded
So they will cover this distance in 23,5 minutes.

If Hellcats fly CAP at 0 range, and are positioned on the SW edge of the hex, they have to cover 46 miles at 190mph, which is 3,1 miles per minute. They will arrive on the NE edge of the hex after 14.8 minutes, or 15 minutes.
I think this is wrong - I think they use full speed for this.

They patrol at 9,000 feet and have to climb to 17,000 feet at 3,000 feet per minute, which takes them another 3 minutes.

So they will arrive at the NE hex edge after 18 minutes of Jap attack detection.

The weather in hex is Heavy rain, so they have problems visually contacting the enemy, �cause US Navy fighters don�t have radars.

All this may explain why the Allied CAP is porous at this stage of the war.

If CAP fighters use cruise speeds for repositioning, then it would actually make sense to have a squadron of Buffaloes in a CV TF even in 1944/1945 since Buffaloes cruise speed is 258 mph. They will cover 46 miles in 11 minutes instead of Corsair/Hellcat 15 minutes.

Just a thought.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 2322

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 4:09:56 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

Turn redone.
I am waiting for Ducup reaction

What was different (Docup retreat only one CV TF south as planed)

-Damage IJN CA that sunk from flooding last turn is still ons surface but on fire
-Japanese CL eat 2xTT near Manado - minor damage
-KB strike at Namlea invasion
-10 or 11 CVE sunk
-10 DE or old DD sunk
-2 enemy CA damage
-CL Achilles in Ambon not sunk but only damaged
-Similar air loses as in original one
-Japan lost only 120 pilots(250 in original battle)

PS. KB still able to send 1050 planes in air - morale good
I nned to plan next move i am facing nearby Alled CV force

PPS. On Docup place i will run south with everything he can and regroup.

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/14/2015 5:13:14 PM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 2323

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 4:56:16 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I have a crazy idea.

If you look at IJN aircraft (Judy,Sam etc) and compare them to USN aircraft (Hellcat, Corsair), you will see the Japs have a big cruise speed advantage over American aircraft! Corsair/Hellcat fly 190/200 mph at cruise speed, while Judy/Sam cruise speeds are 265/259 mph. So a Jap raid is detected at 120 nautical miles and its ETA is 36 minutes.

Now, let's say Japs travel at 260 miles per hour. 260 mph/60 minutes = 4,3 miles per minute
120 miles/4.3 miles per minute = 27,90 minutes=rounded 28 minutes

Let�s say the Allied CV TF sits in the middle of a hex, and interception takes place at the NE hex�s edge. This means Japs are intercepted 22 miles away from the CV TF. Thus they don�t cover 120 miles , but 98 miles, or 100 miles rounded
So they will cover this distance in 23,5 minutes.

If Hellcats fly CAP at 0 range, and are positioned on the SW edge of the hex, they have to cover 46 miles at 190mph, which is 3,1 miles per minute. They will arrive on the NE edge of the hex after 14.8 minutes, or 15 minutes.
I think this is wrong - I think they use full speed for this.

They patrol at 9,000 feet and have to climb to 17,000 feet at 3,000 feet per minute, which takes them another 3 minutes.

So they will arrive at the NE hex edge after 18 minutes of Jap attack detection.

The weather in hex is Heavy rain, so they have problems visually contacting the enemy, �cause US Navy fighters don�t have radars.

All this may explain why the Allied CAP is porous at this stage of the war.

If CAP fighters use cruise speeds for repositioning, then it would actually make sense to have a squadron of Buffaloes in a CV TF even in 1944/1945 since Buffaloes cruise speed is 258 mph. They will cover 46 miles in 11 minutes instead of Corsair/Hellcat 15 minutes.

Just a thought.

witpqs, you may be right.

I have found a short narrative of a CAP vectored at max speed to meet a Japanese raid here:

https://books.google.pl/books?id=FGKCAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=vectored+at+max+speed+japanese&source=bl&ots=H6sjBbv0_x&sig=wW4eKuAydFdHJWZwztYzUcaFwfs&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=_UQtVZDiJ4KOsAGUr4LQCQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=vectored%20at%20max%20speed%20japanese&f=false

" The seven Seafires of the Low CAP were off station north of the fleet and were ordered to 'Buster' for maximum speed and vectored toward the enemy".

So the Allied CAP should have been firm if set at range 0.

Does it work the other way round? Do incoming Japanese aircraft accelerate too?

< Message edited by Yaab -- 4/14/2015 5:57:17 PM >

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 2324

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 5:11:26 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

This is a case where Elf's input would be golden! But I am sure we have other folks here with enough experience knowledge to help if they jump in. Mine is based on readings only, but I am pretty sure that it would just depend on the balance of things like "how much fuel on board" / "how far away" / "how critical" and so on. If they REALLY thought it was critical they might use up their fuel and parachute near base/carrier, but how often did that happen IRL? I presume it might have rarely happened by accident (read an unremembered but low number of such accounts), not sure about on purpose.

But if a fighter (group) has plenty of fuel of course they will go to full speed to intercept, that's the whole reason for them being up there! The farther away the raid maybe ("maybe"!) the more conservative they would be until the squadron CO ordered full speed.

As for attackers, it's a similar deal. When they got close enough they would go to full speed to improve chances of their attack succeeding - in and out of AA quicker, harder to target. They might go to full speed even farther away if intercepted by fighters (doctrine and situation might play a role, I just don't know). Torpedo planes (depending on the weapons, platform, and doctrine) might have to reduce speed shortly before drop due to the parameters of their weapon.

Not trivially simple for the game engine, I think!

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 2325

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 6:01:13 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

Fast report.
As earlier there was no allied counter attack
I love A7M2 Sam (15 new aces today) Only 42 A7M2 lost

At first main attack
AM phase

Morning Air attack on TF, near Namlea at 76,108

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 265
B7A2 Grace x 162
D4Y4 Judy x 226

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 7
Kittyhawk III x 3
Kittyhawk IV x 6
Spitfire VIII x 8
P-38H Lightning x 10
P-40K Warhawk x 5
P-40N5 Warhawk x 11
F4U-1A Corsair x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 100
F6F-5 Hellcat x 139

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 34 destroyed, 6 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 37 destroyed, 10 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Chenango, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
CVE Anzio, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Thetis Bay, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Prince William, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Nassau, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Shipley Bay, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Altamaha, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CLAA Oakland
BB Alabama, Bomb hits 1
DD Abner Read
DD Renshaw
xAK Michael Livanos, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CVE Makin Island, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Sangamon, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Barnes, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DE Harmon
CA Portland
BB Washington
DD Frazier
DE Shelton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DE Stafford, Bomb hits 7, and is sunk
DE Eichenberger
DE Richard M. Rowell, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
DE Raymond, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DE Coolbaugh, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Wadsworth
-----------------------------------

And PM phase

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 267
B7A2 Grace x 221

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 5
Kittyhawk III x 3
Kittyhawk IV x 6
Spitfire VIII x 8
P-38H Lightning x 9
P-40K Warhawk x 5
P-40N5 Warhawk x 9
F4U-1A Corsair x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 32
F6F-5 Hellcat x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 7 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 5 destroyed, 31 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IV: 2 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
P-38H Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 4 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 4 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 13 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 11 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVE Makin Island, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CVE Anzio, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DE Eichenberger, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CVE Barnes, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DE Shelton, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CA Portland, Torpedo hits 1
BB Washington
DD Bailey
DD Halford
DD Abner Read
xAK Mary Livanos
CVE Shipley Bay, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CVE Nassau, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DE Harmon, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CLAA Oakland
APA Fuller
BB Alabama
DD Clarence Bronson
CA Boston
xAK Michael Livanos, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Maetsuycker, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Baltimore, Torpedo hits 1
DD Strong
xAK Nicholas van Vonn
APA McCawley, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
APA Baxter
DD Eaton
APA Wharton
--------------------------------------------------------------

And some secondary strikes

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Batjan at 78,105

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 64 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 12
D4Y4 Judy x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD McCalla
DD Ingraham
DD Farenholt
DD Duncan, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
---------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 76,109

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 12
B7A2 Grace x 13

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
LST-477, Bomb hits 2, on fire
LCI-75, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CL Achilles, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LST-472, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DE Dennis, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
---------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 76,109

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 15
B7A2 Grace x 16

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 3 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LST-452, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Achilles

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/14/2015 7:08:28 PM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 2326

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/14/2015 7:25:11 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

Time to sleep. Difficult day at work tomorrow

Docup is happy after redo turn. I am also happy.
We both have what we want. I crash his Invasion. He land on Namlea without LCU loses and he save fleet carriers.

10 CVE is small price for save of 4 CV and 3 CVL

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2327

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/15/2015 5:55:56 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

This is something the game gets wrong - no PP hit for excessive human losses.

10 CVEs lost. Each has a complement of 850 men, 8,500 men total. The US public opinion would have crucified docup for this failure. Roosevelt would have relieved him from command.

In the game,the ships are just empty, automatic vessels with no crew.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 4/15/2015 6:56:40 AM >

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2328

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/15/2015 7:54:49 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Time to sleep. Difficult day at work tomorrow

Docup is happy after redo turn. I am also happy.
We both have what we want. I crash his Invasion. He land on Namlea without LCU loses and he save fleet carriers.

10 CVE is small price for save of 4 CV and 3 CVL

Well, glad you guys are happy, but 10 CVEs for Okinawa is one thing. For Namlea in late '44, not sure I'd be so happy!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2329

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/15/2015 9:40:43 AM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Time to sleep. Difficult day at work tomorrow

Docup is happy after redo turn. I am also happy.
We both have what we want. I crash his Invasion. He land on Namlea without LCU loses and he save fleet carriers.

10 CVE is small price for save of 4 CV and 3 CVL

Well, glad you guys are happy, but 10 CVEs for Okinawa is one thing. For Namlea in late '44, not sure I'd be so happy!

Most important is that game is online

After last turn i think i have small window to send KB for repairs an maybe some refits.
Almost all Carriers have sys damage ~7-10 points and over half have major engine damage requiring dry dock.

I have no 100% accurate data in memory but last two days looses are.

Japan
sunk - BB, CA, 2xCL, 5xDD, 10xE
damaged 2xBB,2xCA 3xCL, 4xDD
1000 planes and 400 pilots lost

Allies.
sunk 10xCVE, ~4xDD/DE
damaged 2xCA, CL and few DD
400 planes lost

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/16/2015 5:28:36 AM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2330

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/15/2015 6:59:24 PM

Sangeli

Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

This is something the game gets wrong - no PP hit for excessive human losses.

10 CVEs lost. Each has a complement of 850 men, 8,500 men total. The US public opinion would have crucified docup for this failure. Roosevelt would have relieved him from command.

In the game,the ships are just empty, automatic vessels with no crew.

For 8,500 men total? Remind me again how the US public crucified Eisenhower when he lost 100,000 men in Operation Overlord. Losing that much steel seems to be the bigger issue.

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 2331

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/15/2015 8:49:06 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

At least they were liberating France during the "Overlord" campaign. But 8,500 men dead in one day in the middle of nowhere for no gain? Wouldn't that stir the public opinion in the USA?

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 2332

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/15/2015 9:38:24 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

D-Day itself:
http://www.ddaymuseum.co.uk/d-day/d-day-and-the-battle-of-normandy-your-questions-answered

quote:

For many years, the Allied casualties figures for D-Day have been estimated at 10,000, including 2,500 dead. Broken down by nationality, the D-Day casualty figures that have been cited for many years are approximately 2,700 British, 946 Canadians, and 6,603 Americans. However recent painstaking research by the US National D-Day Memorial Foundation has achieved a more accurate - and much higher - figure for the Allied personnel who were killed on D-Day. They have recorded the names of individual Allied personnel killed on 6 June 1944 in Operation Overlord, and so far they have verified 2,499 American D-Day fatalities and 1,914 from the other Allied nations, a total of 4,413 dead (much higher than the traditional figure of 2,500 dead). Further research may mean that these numbers will increase slightly in future.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 2333

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/16/2015 12:27:46 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Boy, I am relieved you are both happy! I was worried there for a bit.

Game on!

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 2334

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/16/2015 3:30:31 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

2 December 1944

Both sides retreat
Sadly Japan lost another BB and CA

BB Nagato sunk by sub after 4 TT hit (3 days earlier was damaged by over 15 1000lb bombs)
CA Maya sunk north of Manado after being heavily damage by planes 3 days ago

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2335

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/19/2015 6:46:43 AM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

3 December 1944

Burma
Almost 1900AV pop-up in Rahaeng. Japan have 800AV.(jungle hex with fort 5)
Order is to hold for few days to allow 900 Jap AV to evacuate from hex west of base

This is official. Burma front is over. Soon allied tanks will flood Indochina

Makassar
Fletchers visit base sinking 3xE and DD

KB
Refeuled rearmed. Ready to fight.

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/19/2015 6:34:21 PM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2336

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/19/2015 5:15:18 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

3 December 1944

Burma
Almost 1900AV pop-up in Rahaeng. Japan have 800AV.(jungle hex with fort 6)
Order is to hold for few days to allow 900 Jap AV to evacuate from hex west of base

This is official. Burma front is over. Soon allied tanks will flood Indochina

Makassar
Fletchers visit base sinking 3xE and DD

KB
Refeuled rearmed. Ready to fight.

It's a great fighting retreat from Burma you've made. You will slow him as he works down forts and tries to break through these spots. If you cover the North Vietnam area and get into those good terrain hexes it'll slow him further. A long way to go even to reach China, so as long as you hold some of the big bases to keep the air forces at bay you should be able to get oil through for a good while.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2337

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/19/2015 5:33:34 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

3 December 1944

Burma
Almost 1900AV pop-up in Rahaeng. Japan have 800AV.(jungle hex with fort 6)
Order is to hold for few days to allow 900 Jap AV to evacuate from hex west of base

This is official. Burma front is over. Soon allied tanks will flood Indochina

Makassar
Fletchers visit base sinking 3xE and DD

KB
Refeuled rearmed. Ready to fight.

It's a great fighting retreat from Burma you've made. You will slow him as he works down forts and tries to break through these spots. If you cover the North Vietnam area and get into those good terrain hexes it'll slow him further. A long way to go even to reach China, so as long as you hold some of the big bases to keep the air forces at bay you should be able to get oil through for a good while.

Docup attack in Rahaeng last turn. Victory.

Ground combat at Rahaeng (58,56)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 31894 troops, 561 guns, 435 vehicles, Assault Value = 1934

Defending force 28116 troops, 368 guns, 721 vehicles, Assault Value = 777

Allied adjusted assault: 825

Japanese adjusted defense: 1219

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
472 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2213 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 297 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Guns lost 48 (2 destroyed, 46 disabled)
Vehicles lost 24 (1 destroyed, 23 disabled)

But number he is moving toward me are HUGE

. 1900AV in Rahaeng, 800AV west of Rahaeng and 2000-3000AV in hex near Moulmein. From Chiang Mai area 2000++AV is moving trough jungle.

I set defensive line in Victoria Point-Chumphon (1700AV). So far i have evacuated 2500AV to North Vietnam area, 1800AV is in Bangok area ready to be evacuated to Vietnam. In Rahaeng area i have 1800AV that i hope will join my boys in Vietnam

I hope to be able to pomp fuel from Palambang for 1-3 more months. After that i will have ~9 months resources reserve in Japan.

I am planing small offensive from Vietnam toward Nanning-Liuchow. (1000AV will be able to sneak undetected to both city gates and strike simultaneously. Recon show no more that 100AV in each base. It should open alternative path to evacuate my boys from Vietnam it will also cut off ~2000 china AV that Docup have near Canton (Wuchow and Canton are in Japanese hands). I am sending small unit to move between Liuchow and Kweilin to close rail connection.

< Message edited by koniu -- 4/19/2015 6:36:25 PM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2338

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/19/2015 6:04:44 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

From bad news.

Ambon and Namlea holding but supplies are low. I also lost balance in region.
Low fuel force KB to retreat from area(will back soon) and surface fleet suffer high loses in last weak.
2xBB, 2xCA, 2xCL and 6xDD is big lose

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 2339

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 4/19/2015 8:10:41 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
A long way to go even to reach China, so as long as you hold some of the big bases to keep the air forces at bay you should be able to get oil through for a good while.

Great little gem of experience there.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2340