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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 3:53:21 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Just in case I did a test before and yes, recon planes transferred to non VVS air bases could conduct on next turn recon missions.

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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 7:41:42 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 96
15 April 1943

Humm, Marquo is still on the run in the south

It looks like he does not trust the Don then Perfect! In theory the more he retreats (aka I freely advance) in this area the more unlikely an enemy advance towards the Caucasus is.

Therefore scenario #4 might be out of the question.

In any case I plan to keep pushing. Let's see where and when he is going to stop and fight like a man!

Me hordes are ready, well, that's what we think and hope... Just in case, let's pray one more time

EDIT: pre-recon and pre-me moves




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 7:47:00 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Needless to say I advanced and trashed some miserable 1:1 sec regiments / ants he more or less left behind




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 7:51:29 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		I have managed (these last two turns) to extricate, pull back two more stavka armies: the 1st Shock and 3rd Shock. More reserves that is




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 8:01:13 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And as I had said, 6 more rifle corps have been formed this turn. I will not stop, no matter what...

I am concentrating them (I mean the new ones) in the offensive area.




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 8:10:07 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And it's been a bloody turn in the "offensive area". Some failures. Goes to show the limitations of the Red Army... Still, I have to bring the artillery, rocket divisions... and then some tough reserve armies: like er... the tough 1st Guards with its mighty Guards Corps...

Just like that other turn, more success in the south, more failures in the north

Still, Operation Little Crazy Ivan continues. We will soon upgrade to Operation Crazy Ivan though, HAHA!

And yes, it looks like Marquo is reinforcing this part of the front. That's where he sees the rifle corps, no rocket science methinks.




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/20/2012 8:40:50 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Up north, I show no mercy

I will have the minimum forces I need, nothing more. But I will attack as long as I see nice, fruitful opportunities.

Just for the record, I followed Klydon's advice and trashed the wannabe bullies (12 Luftwaffe division that is) the previous turn. Now they are spared, simply because I thought there were weaker "victims" elsewhere.

But the hordes will be back!




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/21/2012 12:20:07 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Ok... This is more Operation Crazy Little Ivan 3/4!

I'm waaaaay toooo impatient. So I am bringing some dynamite.

First of all, the Fronts involved in the operation are the Bryansk and Southwestern.

3 air bases filled with 9 IL-2s each are going to be assigned to both fronts, ergo 27 air units.




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/21/2012 12:34:30 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And as you can see on the above screenshot there are some units behind the frontline with nasty offensive CVs.

Yes, it's the mighty 1st Guards Army (in the north) and the 61st Army in the south

In addition to this I am bringing the big brothers aka the regular / breakthrough artillery divisions and the rocket divisions. Basically the units with a TOE above 80% and morale almost = 50. The south will be getting the next ones.

North (Bryansk)
regular: 1
breakthrough: 8
rockets: 3

South (Southwestern)
regular: 1
breakthrough: 0
rockets: 3

I have also attached a Guards Cavalry Corps directly to the Bryansk Front. I plan to attach several other Guards Cavalry Corps and some Tank Corps to both fronts as well.




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/21/2012 12:42:50 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		The 1st Guards Army. Yep, there is a non Guards rifle division. I guess I needed to attach it to this army, I can't remember when and why. But I know I had a good reason




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/21/2012 12:46:35 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		I don't have rail MPs left but I plan to bring another nasty army on the next turn: the 58th. It contains two Guards Rifle Corps (even if you can't see them on those stacks), so they will be really welcome




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RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! - 10/21/2012 1:02:26 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		If I well understood this is more or less what I should be doing:

a) there will be a first echelon aka Front Armies
b) there will be a second echelon (Reserve armies: Guards, Shock and others)
c) the artilley must obviously be maximum at 2 hexes from the "victim"

Then in theory I strike with a) and c). Let's say the enemy is forced to retreat. b) will then advance and occupy those hexes.

On next turn the second echelon will become the first echelon. And the first echelon will become the second. Rinse and repeat, I guess.

There might be some combinations if I add tank armies and I see opportunities to annihilate concrete enemy units. Attack the flanks of the victim, advance and maybe on next turn you close the ring.

In theory it's about grinding but just in case I have to pay attention and use -we never know what the good lord will be providing!- this "annihilation" thing!

EDITED: well, given that both fronts will have cavalry and tank corps directly attached the Tank Armies might not be absolutely necessary. We will see.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 12:52:30 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 97
22 April 1943




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 1:07:12 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		But first of all, the harvest of rifle corps! The offensive area indeed needs more corps (the Front Armies that is).

But I have to keep an eye on my reserve (or mobile) armies. Because after all Marquo might strike. The thing is I will need them: defensive or offensive tasks.

Three shock Armies have received 2 rifle corps each = 6 corps = 60 APs = no APs left that is




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 1:13:52 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		This is the only place where I have been detecting on the last months a concentration of armored hordes: NE, E, SE of Voronezh.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 1:52:28 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		I will soon show the whole front, a close view. The situation is still messy (NO chaotic though). In the Voronezh area (Voronezh Front) there are Voronezh Front and Stavka Armies interspaced, sort of like the classic Roman Polybian legion checkerboard. Which means this front is really long. I am "pushing" the front armies in the south (aka Central Front) to the north.

And in fact almost every front has 4 armies attached, except the Central Front, which has only 3. So this turn I attach the 37 Stavka Army to this front: a nice army, it contains a Rifle Guards Corps and a Guards Cavalry Corps

An army of the Voronezh Front will thus be sent to the north, to its natural place that is.

In the end, this might extricate I guess like two Stavka armies of this checkerboard: and yes, that means more reserves




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 3:10:31 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Given that he keeps retreating, leaving minimum one buffer hex (this is intolerable!) I could only attack in two places. Needless to say I concentrated the artillery / rocket divisions and put them to good use!




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 3:18:47 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		I'm pulling back the artillery brigades. I must make room for a) the artillery / rocket divisions and b) second echelon armies

I have been thinking about what to do with them artillery brigades. Two choices, I guess. Either I send them up north (as I had said some moons ago to keep terrorizing the Finns) or... I use them as... dummies!

I could let's say send them to some concrete part of the front. Marquo could incorrectly deduce I am planning some agressive moves there. And this -maybe - could tie some of his units. I should also send to that part of the front some rifle divisions counters.

We will see.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 3:22:16 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And by the way, as you can see the artillery are "white units", attached to Stavka that is. I guess I should attach them to either Armies HQs or Front HQs. I can accept this cost because after all the artillery units will be staying in this area on the next months

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 3:47:53 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		So this is what I'm doing. The artillery, rocket divisions are spreaded, one per hex. Behind the front you can see the 1st Guards Army, it advances with the artillery that is.

I don't know if this is the correct thing to do, as all this stuff is simply new to me. I'm experimenting that is

EDIT: hmm, in fact even if the artillery is spreaded I can easily concentrate them, they will be able to make a deliberate attack.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 8:02:48 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Ok, now I think I know fairly well what will be the plan... in theory

I am not ruling out a German attack. I know it may happen. To be honest I have no idea about what Marquo will be doing (all I know is his concentration of armored units; and still, these could be dummies as well). The only difference is that perhaps I would be forced to defend the threatened area with some of the second echelon armies I planned to use offensively. And this per se should weaken my attack.

As per the screenshot, I plan a fake build-up NW, W of Moscow with the artillery brigades and other units.

I might have two more reserve armies, which I should be pulling back (among them the 2nd Shock, still at the frontline). Given that I am pushing the armies from the south (Central Front) towards the north and also from the north (Southwestern Front) towards the south I think I could be shortening the Voronozeh Front and therefore extricate these reserve armies.

Either way, if Marquo wants it he will get it! *or maybe it's going to be the other way*




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/29/2012 10:27:28 PM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		While using the gun brigades as "dummy" units, I think it isn't too hard to figure out if a artillery unit is a brigade or a division, so I don't know how deceptive they will wind up being. The other issue to consider is how much tougher is it to tell what type of brigade a given artillery unit is. A rocket artillery brigade (200+ tubes) is a far different animal than a gun brigade (24 or 36 artillery pieces). Some other things to consider is to perhaps make up some artillery divisions and simply do not put them on refit. They will be incredibly weak, but according to his recon, they show as artillery divisions.

I happen to be grinding on a campaign game I started in 1943 as the Russians at the moment. I almost think you consider using some of your formations that are a bit "green" shall we say (not guards, etc) to open the initial offensive. No matter who you use, they are going to take casualties and at some point, will need to take a break. The Germans will also be weaken as well from the fighting. This is when I would show up with my "good" troops to try to exploit a weak section of the German line and hope it gives way. You have forces you can afford to rotate into where you are attacking at and allow your old attackers to rest and recover; he really doesn't have the troops to do that. You need to give him no rest really anyplace up and down the line. The more of the line he can ignore, the better for him and he can concentrate his panzer forces to meet your attacks. Anywhere there are non German units in the line, you need to have local attacks going on against those troops. Make him put Germans in the line for the entire line.

Just my two cents.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/30/2012 12:01:31 AM   
CowboyRonin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I happen to be grinding on a campaign game I started in 1943 as the Russians at the moment. I almost think you consider using some of your formations that are a bit "green" shall we say (not guards, etc) to open the initial offensive. No matter who you use, they are going to take casualties and at some point, will need to take a break. The Germans will also be weaken as well from the fighting. This is when I would show up with my "good" troops to try to exploit a weak section of the German line and hope it gives way. You have forces you can afford to rotate into where you are attacking at and allow your old attackers to rest and recover; he really doesn't have the troops to do that. You need to give him no rest really anyplace up and down the line. The more of the line he can ignore, the better for him and he can concentrate his panzer forces to meet your attacks. Anywhere there are non German units in the line, you need to have local attacks going on against those troops. Make him put Germans in the line for the entire line.

Just my two cents.


If you use your Guards and Shock Armies as the second tier, with your Tank Armies ready to exploit through the second-level breach, you just recreated Soviet Operational Manuever Group (OMG) doctrine. This is what the Soviet Tank and Mech corps are really designed to do.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 10/30/2012 1:16:21 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Klydon, yes, I know the maskirovka might not work but I have to try the same

Well, as for rotating, bringing fresh armies. The front armies (or first echelon) bust a hole. Then the fresh second echelon armies advance. Also note the latter already have strong, experienced units. So in fact I already have these fresh, good armies, as per the plan.

It all depends on what Marquo plans to do. If he chooses a defensive path, I can rotate the Guards / Shock with the reserve armies I am keeping (which I mentioned above). They also have good units.

And then of course, rotating individual units. This may not be totally free (APs). Therefore this will be my last choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CowboyRonin
If you use your Guards and Shock Armies as the second tier, with your Tank Armies ready to exploit through the second-level breach, you just recreated Soviet Operational Manuever Group (OMG) doctrine. This is what the Soviet Tank and Mech corps are really designed to do.


Yep. That's exactly what I am trying to do

If anything, I don't think this is going to be a mobile war, in which my armored hordes will create a big mess à la panzers circa 1941. I will keep them facing the enemy armored hordes, just in case. Also note I planned to attach Guards Cavalry Corps and some independent Tank Corps (2, 3 or perhaps even 4) directly to the two fronts involved in the attack.

IF -again- Marquo does not strike, yes, I might send some of these Tank Armies to fully recreate the Soviet Doctrine. But again, I suspect I will have to wait until 1944-45 to create some chaos behind Marquo's frontline

So in theory I plan a modest approach: annihilation of some concrete enemy units if he does not pay attention.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/2/2012 10:04:19 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 98
29 April 1943

Haha

You may remember that up north Marquo had brought what I had incorrectly called a "bully". In fact it was the miserable 12 Luftwaffe Division. If I am not mistaken they were trashed at least twice since their arrival...

He's finally realized he needs a proper bully in this area to scare my little bloodthirsty bullies. So let me introduce you to the "mighty" 38th German Division.

Needless to say I will try to trash them, since I can muster 4 rifle divisions and 1 brigade of the 23rd Army (no command penalties that is)




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/2/2012 10:10:51 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And they failed Before the attack all the U2s Coffinov attached to this front + all the level, tactical bombers bombed the unit. So, er...

Oh well, plently of Finns in the area. They are going to pay for this miserable failure...




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/2/2012 10:22:17 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Oh well, plently of Finns in the area. They are going to pay for this miserable failure...


That needs a small correction: AND the Luftwaffe division!




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/2/2012 10:33:17 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		The crazy fake build-up I was planning NW of Moscow. I am bringing the artillery bdes, cavalry divisions and tank bdes. I won't be creating cavalry and tank corps in the near future, given that the rifle corps are the top priority, so it's ok.

Now just let's hope Marquo notices this alcoholic bunch (given that combat they haven't seen. Bottles of vodka: way too much). I will be bringing more dummies by the way.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/2/2012 10:57:52 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And of course the question is who is going to get the next rifle corps. First of all, the stavka 2nd Shock. The only shock army still at the frontline. The 5th army coming from the south will replace it. And that makes an extra punch for the coming offensive




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/2/2012 11:04:55 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		The movement of the Central Front armies to the north will also allow me to pull back the 20th Army on the next turns I guess.

This 20th Army became the 1st Guards Army (in december 1941 IIRC). Then in spring 1942 I created some armies: the 20th was raised again that is

Maybe they will soon become the er... 2nd Guards army!




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