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Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calculator?

 
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Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calculator? - 10/12/2011 2:10:30 AM   
SgtSwanson


Posts: 212
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Long Branch, NJ
Status: offline 		Is there a way to even do this with the most common destinations in mind? I have been thinking of creating one since back in WitP days because, I wanted to know the approx date or how many days a certian TF would reach it's destination. This is mainly for Cargo / Amphib TFs. I'm willing to give it a try, however my Excel formula knowledge sucks to say the least. Any takers?

_____________________________

Sgt Swanson
87-93 5/502 Inf. Berlin Bde
93-95 2/502 Inf. 101st Airborne Div.
Freedom is never free!!

Patch of the Week: 6th Infantry Division
Post #: 1
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 2:19:56 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I haven't looked at the TF routing code recently, but it's pretty complex and it's even more complex with AE than it was with WitP.  Just to start, you would have to take the map file into account. 

The best way to do this would be to create some kind of utility like the WitP Tracker that would take the actual information from the save file and then calculate the time from that.  I don't know if that information is extractable from the save file though.

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to SgtSwanson)
Post #: 2
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 2:26:28 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		The main issue with this is it is not as simple as it sounds from outside of the game. I am assuming that you would want to know

- The hexigonal distance between point A and B
- The distance will take into account going around land masses (i.e. it is not just a point-to-point distance as in how the crow flies)
- the speed of the various TF's involved. I.E the QE versus a slow xAK

Of course if you want to avoid major enemy bases, then it gets even more complex

I also assume that you would simply want to put in Port A and Port B and the speed of the TF and out will pop the time in days between the two.

Just as an example, if you wanted to know how long TF A would take to go between LA and Sidney that would be fairly simple to do, assumng Norema was not Japan's. Other routes would not be that easy, Toyko to Sinapore (once that area was all Japans), due to have to get around Boreno and the PI. It just depends on what you are looking for.

A point-to-point system ignoring all land masses would be the easiest and would at least give you a ball park idea. If that is all you are looking to do, then it should not be that hard.

(in reply to SgtSwanson)
Post #: 3
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 2:32:50 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Plus automatic ship refueling would vary from one TF to another, both going to the same destination but with simply different ships in the TFs.

Threat tolerance is also a factor.

Currently the TF screen tells you how many hexes to the destination (and back) plus the TF speed. That info is adequate.

Alfred

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 4
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 4:14:37 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SgtSwanson

Is there a way to even do this with the most common destinations in mind? I have been thinking of creating one since back in WitP days because, I wanted to know the approx date or how many days a certian TF would reach it's destination. This is mainly for Cargo / Amphib TFs. I'm willing to give it a try, however my Excel formula knowledge sucks to say the least. Any takers?


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

...
The best way to do this would be to create some kind of utility like the WitP Tracker that would take the actual information from the save file and then calculate the time from that. I don't know if that information is extractable from the save file though.
...


Actually Witptracker does this ... look at the TF screen it has Est.Time of arrival. It's not perfect as it takes the straight point to point hex data and calculates from the min ship speed.
[edit]Actually just had a quick think and we take the number of hexes to destination and calculate using that. It's not a perfect solution but to do so would mean importing a whole heap of data that we don't want to do ...
[edit2]I'll have another look at it before 1.9 gets released

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 10/12/2011 4:20:57 AM >

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-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to SgtSwanson)
Post #: 5
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 5:44:12 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		And any clue as to when 1.9 will be ready ?

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 6
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 11:43:26 AM   
SgtSwanson


Posts: 212
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Long Branch, NJ
Status: offline 		I've been having problems with getting the Tracker to read my Babes game file. I'm playing a Babes lite scen against the AI. Is there any difference for the Tracker between a stock scen and a modded one?

_____________________________

Sgt Swanson
87-93 5/502 Inf. Berlin Bde
93-95 2/502 Inf. 101st Airborne Div.
Freedom is never free!!

Patch of the Week: 6th Infantry Division

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 7
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 12:06:55 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That info is adequate.

Alfred



No it isn't. The fact that people are asking for more is proof that it isn't.

The game has been in need of an "expected arrival date" estimate in the TF interface since it was released.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 8
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 1:37:30 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SgtSwanson

I've been having problems with getting the Tracker to read my Babes game file. I'm playing a Babes lite scen against the AI. Is there any difference for the Tracker between a stock scen and a modded one?

Maybe if you post in the Tracker thread with the error message and maybe if you want to email the file to me I can have a look
PM me.;..

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to SgtSwanson)
Post #: 9
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 1:38:50 PM   
Graymane


Posts: 520
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Bellevue, NE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SgtSwanson

Is there a way to even do this with the most common destinations in mind? I have been thinking of creating one since back in WitP days because, I wanted to know the approx date or how many days a certian TF would reach it's destination. This is mainly for Cargo / Amphib TFs. I'm willing to give it a try, however my Excel formula knowledge sucks to say the least. Any takers?


I did a basic calculator in a spreadsheet a long time ago. I'd have to go hunt down where it is. As others have mentioned though, it is based on straight-line distances that can be really innacurate when you think about threat tolerances. This especially applies to PH to routes in the SP or SWPAC.

I do keep handmade charts that show something like this for major routes (I'm just making the numbers up, they aren't real):

PH SF Pago Brisbane
PH xx 50 100 150
SF 50 xx 160 200
Pago 100 160 xx 75
Brisbane 150 200 75 xx

I do the routes by opening the game and using the threat tolerances and "directness" setttings that I would normally use.

To make an out-of-game tool that is accurate one would have to parse the map data to understand the land masses and the do some empirical testing to determine how the refueling works.

The good news is that even straight-line routes and what is shown in-game are probably good enough to planning as long as you don't need to be more accurate that a few days. The in-game TF info tells you how many hexes the TF needs to travel as well as the speed in hexes of the TF for each 12-hour pulse. You can easily ballpark the times right from the screen.

It says something like m/c (6/3), Fuel 234/123 (56) where the cruise speed is 3 and the hexes are 56. So 10 or so turns. For planning purposes, I'll also add using 1-2 days for loading, 1-2 days for unloading and 1 day extra for refueling all depending on how long the trip is. So for a cargo trip using these sample numbers, a bit over 3 weeks round trip.

(in reply to SgtSwanson)
Post #: 10
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 1:42:40 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Graymane


quote:

ORIGINAL: SgtSwanson

Is there a way to even do this with the most common destinations in mind? I have been thinking of creating one since back in WitP days because, I wanted to know the approx date or how many days a certian TF would reach it's destination. This is mainly for Cargo / Amphib TFs. I'm willing to give it a try, however my Excel formula knowledge sucks to say the least. Any takers?


I did a basic calculator in a spreadsheet a long time ago. I'd have to go hunt down where it is. As others have mentioned though, it is based on straight-line distances that can be really innacurate when you think about threat tolerances. This especially applies to PH to routes in the SP or SWPAC.

I do keep handmade charts that show something like this for major routes (I'm just making the numbers up, they aren't real):

PH SF Pago Brisbane
PH xx 50 100 150
SF 50 xx 160 200
Pago 100 160 xx 75
Brisbane 150 200 75 xx

I do the routes by opening the game and using the threat tolerances and "directness" setttings that I would normally use.

To make an out-of-game tool that is accurate one would have to parse the map data to understand the land masses and the do some empirical testing to determine how the refueling works.

The good news is that even straight-line routes and what is shown in-game are probably good enough to planning as long as you don't need to be more accurate that a few days. The in-game TF info tells you how many hexes the TF needs to travel as well as the speed in hexes of the TF for each 12-hour pulse. You can easily ballpark the times right from the screen.

It says something like m/c (6/3), Fuel 234/123 (56) where the cruise speed is 3 and the hexes are 56. So 10 or so turns. For planning purposes, I'll also add using 1-2 days for loading, 1-2 days for unloading and 1 day extra for refueling all depending on how long the trip is. So for a cargo trip using these sample numbers, a bit over 3 weeks round trip.

Actually iirc the in game data is a really good indicator if you set the home base to the destination it will give you the number of hexes to be traversed. Then look at the slowest ship or just the movement indicator and calculate the time to target...


_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to Graymane)
Post #: 11
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 9:14:37 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That info is adequate.

Alfred



No it isn't. The fact that people are asking for more is proof that it isn't.

The game has been in need of an "expected arrival date" estimate in the TF interface since it was released.


Or they are lazy.

See post #11 from Damian. He always reminds people about the capabilities of Tracker but acknowledges that the ingame data is adequate.

It really isn't difficult to get the approximate info as requested from ingame. But then it is always easier to get someone else to do the work and give the answer.
\
Alfred

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 12
RE: Has anyone ever tried to create a TF movement Calcu... - 10/12/2011 10:01:06 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Agreed.

I was merely trying, in a friendly way to point out that your opinion that it is adequate doen't necessarily equate to a fact that it's adequate.

You are a very helpful resource to many on this forum with your detailed and heavily researched answers to their questions, but like me, you sometimes have a tendency to equate your opinion with fact, or at least state it in a way that appears like you are equating it with fact. I was merely playing the devil's advocate. No offense intended.

I do find your reference to the laziness of people rather curoius given your propensity to provide the laziest of the lazy with copius amounts of assistance.


You do a great job of assisting the uninformed regardless of whether or not their uninformed status is a result of laziness. Keep up the good work!

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 13
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