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Isolated units escaping - 10/28/2011 12:23:34 PM   
Guru

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/13/2011
Status: offline 		Hi there I'm running a game under 1.05 and I've had a number of isolated units routing out of pockets into safety
that is unless they are physically surrounded by units in every six hexes of its ZOC
as a result, I had very few russian surrendres in the german second turn in spite of huge pockets created
is this intended?
Post #: 1
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/28/2011 1:21:50 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		They were completely isolated at the beginning of the turn? Because they only become isolated at the beginning of the Soviet turn. If you surround them this turn, you have to wait a turn before they are isolated and will attack.

(in reply to Guru)
Post #: 2
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/29/2011 11:04:44 AM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		I've seen this too.

You have a group of units isolated and among them is a router. You touch the guy and he flys out of the pocket.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 3
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/29/2011 11:27:43 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guru

Hi there I'm running a game under 1.05 and I've had a number of isolated units routing out of pockets into safety
that is unless they are physically surrounded by units in every six hexes of its ZOC
as a result, I had very few russian surrendres in the german second turn in spite of huge pockets created
is this intended?


Please check the manual regarding this!

In it it is explained what is the difference between pocket made in one turn (i.e. pocket that just looks like complete one) and "proper" pocket that happens after one turn has been played...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Guru)
Post #: 4
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/29/2011 1:27:17 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I think this is the situation being referred to. The 3 routed units that were inside an isolated pocket at the end of turn 1 will rout to safety if a unit moves next to them during turn2. I think the rule should change so that units that start a turn in routed mode in an isolated pocket should automatically surrender, and not be subject to the normal surrender chance roll.








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 10/29/2011 1:28:46 PM >

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 5
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/29/2011 1:40:16 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
Hi all,

I think this is the situation being referred to. The 3 routed units that were inside an isolated pocket at the end of turn 1 will rout to safety if a unit moves next to them during turn2. I think the rule should change so that units that start a turn in routed mode in an isolated pocket should automatically surrender, and not be subject to the normal surrender chance roll.









Oh... this might be different situation then...


I re-post it to developer's WitE forum!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 6
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/29/2011 3:38:12 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		This picture is 1.04?

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 7
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/29/2011 7:04:33 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		In 1.03 isolated routed units automatically surrendered. Sometime in 1.04 that changed. I am pretty sure that 1.05 isolated routed units do not surrender either.

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 8
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/30/2011 10:25:46 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		The game was run under 1.05.32, I don't run the Matrix updater as I still have access to the developer FTP site.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 9
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/30/2011 11:45:23 AM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I think this is the situation being referred to.


Yep... that's it alright.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
The 3 routed units that were inside an isolated pocket at the end of turn 1 will rout to safety if a unit moves next to them during turn2. I think the rule should change so that units that start a turn in routed mode in an isolated pocket should automatically surrender, and not be subject to the normal surrender chance roll.


I think the "router flys away when an enemy is in the next hex rule" should be done away with and should shatter/surrender if attacked.

Ray (alias Lava)

< Message edited by Lava -- 10/30/2011 11:50:09 AM >

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 10
RE: Isolated units escaping - 10/30/2011 2:02:08 PM   
marty_01

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 2/10/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I think this is the situation being referred to. The 3 routed units that were inside an isolated pocket at the end of turn 1 will rout to safety if a unit moves next to them during turn2. I think the rule should change so that units that start a turn in routed mode in an isolated pocket should automatically surrender, and not be subject to the normal surrender chance roll.


+1

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 11
RE: Isolated units escaping - 11/22/2011 11:41:59 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Are there any savegame files for this behavior?

We would need those to investigate this further because James ("JAMiAM") reported correct behavior (i.e. "I've got a save that shows that they surrender and die, instead of routing out of pocket.")...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Guru)
Post #: 12
RE: Isolated units escaping - 11/22/2011 12:32:14 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		They surrender as far as I know.

_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13
RE: Isolated units escaping - 11/22/2011 1:02:31 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

They surrender as far as I know.


Yep... they should and that is OK...

But the original poster indicated that they rout out of the pocket instead (and that is something that shouldn't be happening)...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 14
RE: Isolated units escaping - 11/22/2011 3:06:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I have always seen them surrender. It's hard to tell, though, because the only real indication you get is that the losses suddenly go up in the loss screen, and the unit disappears.

Some sort of combat report when this happens would help alot. Can we add that to the punch list?

_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 15
RE: Isolated units escaping - 11/22/2011 4:44:46 PM   
The SNAFU


Posts: 48
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		I dont think the question was related to routed units routing out of a pocket. I think the question was related to non routed units routing and being thrown out of a pocket. That said, the question of routed units being thrown from a pocket vs surrendering is a good one. FWIW I think they should surrender.

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However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. Winston Churchill

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 16
RE: Isolated units escaping - 11/22/2011 6:08:39 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		As far as we know they do surrender. If anyone has a save with any isolated combat units routing out of a pocket, please send it to us (hopefully there aren't any cases of this).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to The SNAFU)
Post #: 17
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