Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Looking at the Chisinau unit capable to move: I would suggest a move towards Nikolajev, since that is the best way that unit might survive another impulse (if reinforced by units from Odessa, he can withdraw further into the Crimea - read Sevastopol - or along the Dnjepr river next impulse).

quote:

I indeed ment the Oil in Stalingrad and Moscow. It looks nice to have oil in hero cities, however: hero cities should be occupied by non oil depending units. Or are you planning on sacrificing ARM or MECH in those cities? If so: that's not a smart move. The USSR can come back out of the Caucasus and Siberia, if the expensive HQ's, ARM, MECH and the airforce will survive. Places like Stalingrad and Moscow haven't got any defensive value at all, apart from being fought over in a few impulses, slowing down the German advance...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

On US entry, I agree on other players advise that if the percentage is 40% or better for both nations, you should attempt both DOW's in the same DoW impulse with the USA. Sure, if both rolls aren't succesfull, it isn't nice. If one succeeds, that increases the opportunity of the other one for the future, thus compensating the loss of the chits. And imagine the houses of Parliament in the USA being enraged by the Axis betrayal and both rolls succeed. Well isn't that nice...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

On US entry, I agree on other players advise that if the percentage is 40% or better for both nations, you should attempt both DOW's in the same DoW impulse with the USA. Sure, if both rolls aren't succesfull, it isn't nice. If one succeeds, that increases the opportunity of the other one for the future, thus compensating the loss of the chits. And imagine the houses of Parliament in the USA being enraged by the Axis betrayal and both rolls succeed. Well isn't that nice...

2 votes so far in favor of a DOW next chance by the USA.

However, it can only DOW either Germany and/or Italy or Japan each impulse. It cannot DOW both during the same impulse.
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Edit: Edited for clarity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

On US entry, I agree on other players advise that if the percentage is 40% or better for both nations, you should attempt both DOW's in the same DoW impulse with the USA. Sure, if both rolls aren't succesfull, it isn't nice. If one succeeds, that increases the opportunity of the other one for the future, thus compensating the loss of the chits. And imagine the houses of Parliament in the USA being enraged by the Axis betrayal and both rolls succeed. Well isn't that nice...

2 votes so far in favor of a DOW next chance by the USA.

However, it can only DOW either Germany and/or Italy or Japan each impulse. It cannot DOW both during the same impulse.
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Edit: Edited for clarity.

Well that is done something we did wrong in the past. Rules, rules...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

Oops. See? I still get confused. Thanks, Orm.

On a completely different subject, I'm working on getting reinforcements where they are needed for the CW. I've got an HQ, 2 INF and an INF Division headed off to Murmansk and probably 1 of the INF in Archangel. I can also get an INF into either Persia or Aden, but I'll need a Combined Action next impulse to take care of Murmansk, and a Land or Combined after that to take care of this. I could get one into both, but I would rather send my Spanish TRS back toward territory where it can actually enter ports on a regular basis . . . the Atlantic (possibly with a cargo to put into Spanish Santa Cruz).

I can get an INF to either Colombo or Telok Betong, but not to both before one of them is captured. Colombo is a Victory City, but Telok Betong would keep a presence in the NEI and save 2 Oil Points. What do you think?
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Edit: Corrected some options. Really the only one I need some advice on is the last . . . Colombo or Telok Betong?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

In my opinion, the USSR needs to:
- save as many units as possible,
- slow down the German advance, and
- form up a defensive line.

So, in the south, I would move as follows:

Save the 4-3 and 1-4. I was tempted to move the 4-3 towards Odessa as you indicated, since the river line prevents it from being attacked except from 1/2 a hex. But I have had disaster strike too many times to trust that the units will survive when next to the Germans. These units will be needed on Dnieper.

The 2-5 must be sacrificed to slow down the German advance. Otherwise a lot of German units will moving much closer to Kiev.

Moving the mountain unit and the 2-3 to the same hex gives them a little bit extra strength. A corp has to remain in Cernauti to ZOC the Germans. The div can take the hit if only 1 unit is lost in the German attack. The reason I like this placement instead of what you showed in black for these units is that fewer Germans can attack the hex if the weather stays as Rain or Blizzard. Under those weather conditions, the Germans have only the units in Rumania plus the 3-stack under the 6-5 to attack the 7 Russian units in and about Bessarabia. I count that as 13 units since von Leeb won't be able to make it into the front line. There will be 6, maybe 8, German units that can wipe out the Cav but they won't be able to advance, regardless of the weather. I am betting that some of the Russian units will still be on the map around the Dniester to hinder the Geramn advance on the southern portion of the Dnieper.

The other moves I show here are just to indicate that you need to start positioning units along the Dnieper defensive line. Exactly what goes where depends on a lot of things. You should not be concerned with building up Hero Cities as a primary goal. Instead, you want the frontline to be contiguous. Having stray Germans run up next to your frontline, have the turn end and then the Germans start the next turn would let the Germans breach the river line without having to make any attacks. You can always rail units into the Hero Cities, or bring in reinforcements there. You don't have those capabilities with other hexes along the front line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

Oops. See? I still get confused. Thanks, Orm.

On a completely different subject, I'm working on getting reinforcements where they are needed for the CW. I've got an HQ, 2 INF and an INF Division headed off to Murmansk and probably 1 of the INF in Archangel. I can also get an INF into either Persia or Aden, but I'll need a Combined Action next impulse to take care of Murmansk, and a Land or Combined after that to take care of this. I could get one into both, but I would rather send my Spanish TRS back toward territory where it can actually enter ports on a regular basis . . . the Atlantic (possibly with a cargo to put into Spanish Santa Cruz).

I can get an INF to either Colombo or Telok Betong, but not to both before one of them is captured. Colombo is a Victory City, but Telok Betong would keep a presence in the NEI and save 2 Oil Points. What do you think?
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Edit: Corrected some options. Really the only one I need some advice on is the last . . . Colombo or Telok Betong?

That's too many units to Murmansk. Look at what the Finns have available and then what your goals are for the CW units. I think all you want to do is capture Petsamo and the resource and then hold onto Murmansk. This is not the place to commit a lot of CW units. The HQ is essential, and maybe another corps. But no more than that. If the Axis send enough units north to seriously attack the 2 CW units, you can think about sending another unit or 2. But I wouldn't. Let the Germans attack in those far reaches of the north. That is much better than having them mucking about in the rest of Russia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

USSR DOW Italy; USE-
CW DOW Yemen; USE-
CW adds Interned Units
France DOW Yemen; USE-
USSR DOW Yemen; USE-

These are the DOWs I'm making this impulse. The 2 that are in bold I consider to be legitimate DOWs based on potential threats. The other 2 are "gamey". The reason I'm telling you this now, before rolling for the US Entry, is that the "expected" number of chits removed here will be 5.4, but I am going to rig it so that all 7 chits get removed. However, which chits are removed I am going to leave to random die rolls. I am doing this to counter the "gamey" DOW of China by Germany. If this were a FTF game, this series of DOWs would again tell the Axis that Entry is too high, and that they would be wise to boost it again.

This isn't a FTF game. I made a mistake by including that single "gamey" DOW by Germany. This is the best I can do to resolve that matter and to move on, after which I will not make any more "gamey" DOWs by either side. Yes, the overall effect wll be a slight increase in the Ge/It Entry Pool of 1-2 chits. But my intention was not to create a cycle of pointless DOWs. I'm going to pretend everyone is stupid on both sides, and that they don't realize that either that DOW or these DOWs are manipulations of the US Entry levels. After that point, I hope you will all agree that Pandora's box is as near closed as can be, and that we can move on without any more talk of "gamey" play.
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First, though, I want all of you loyal followers of this AAR to know where my frustration about this discussion came from: I stated on a number of occassions that I didn't want Germany to go to war until there was Fine weather to use . . . and at the very minimum, there had to be fine weather in the South. I've been planning a combined DOW on the USSR by Japan and Germany for several turns, now, and I began positioning my units on both fronts to be ready for a M/J '41 start to the festivities. That's why I gave everyone about 36 hours to weigh in on their thoughts about a Chinese Surrender, because it could really screw with the war preparations.

The overall feeling I got from the forum members who posted, though, was that China should fight on (by a vote of 4-2), and that Germany should DOW the USSR at the first reasonable moment, even if that meant Snow in the Arctic. I've said before, and I'll say again now, that I want you all to feel like you are contributing to the game, and that many decisions would be based on the views of the forum. So, instead of the M/J '41 Barbarossa that I would have preferred, I took advantage of a good enough weather roll to start the party early.

Given the fact that Japan was a turn short of being fully prepared to go to war, and that Germany was still slightly out of position, I think it was an exciting impulse on both fronts, with crushing victories in Bessarabia, and extraordinary gains by Japan with less than optimal forces. Frankly, I think I adapted my strategic plans extremely well to fit the desires of the forum as a whole.

Now, I'll explain my frustration: I truly believe that under the circumstances, I played the impulse well, and there was a lot that might have been discussed concerning the invasion choices and the Soviet defenses. Instead, all I heard about was that I used a "gamey" tactic to manipulate US Entry. With all of the enthusiasm over the last several days concerning the upcoming BIG EVENT, I was disappointed by this. I altered my plans to fit your suggestions, and I still got the job done. Frankly, everyone likes a pat on the back now and then. This felt like a slap in the face instead, and I was not expecting it at all.

So, I hope my solution will allow us all to put this behind us and refocus on the actual game being played. I will continue to adapt my strategies based on suggestions from the forum (unless they are physically impossible), and I will continue to ask for advice and opinions. I really don't want this game to deteriorate into an exchange of DOWs that mean nothing from a military standpoint. I'd rather hear opinions on what to do with the forces I have (because we all know I need help where defenses are concerned) than to hear opinions on which "gamey" DOW I need to make next.

Thank you for letting me explain my feelings on this, and I hope you'll agree this round of "gamey" (and pre-determined US Entry altering) DOWs is a suitable solution.

-Aaron
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Edit: My original chit calculations were incorrect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

USSR DOW Italy; USE-
CW DOW Yemen; USE-
CW adds Interned Units
France DOW Yemen; USE-
USSR DOW Yemen; USE-

These are the DOWs I'm making this impulse, etc.

Thank you for letting me explain my feelings on this, and I hope you'll agree this round of "gamey" (and pre-determined US Entry altering) DOWs is a suitable solution.

-Aaron
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Edit: My original chit calculations were incorrect.

This is fine. I apologise for my role in the whole mess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

USSR DOW Italy; USE-
CW DOW Yemen; USE-
CW adds Interned Units
France DOW Yemen; USE-
USSR DOW Yemen; USE-

These are the DOWs I'm making this impulse, etc.

Thank you for letting me explain my feelings on this, and I hope you'll agree this round of "gamey" (and pre-determined US Entry altering) DOWs is a suitable solution.

-Aaron
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Edit: My original chit calculations were incorrect.

This is fine. I apologise for my role in the whole mess.

Thank you, Paul. I do appreciate it.
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In other news, while I've been trying to figure out what to ship where (Alexander and his white print 7-3 are still going to Murmansk), I've also been pulling a bunch of convoys back into ports heading mostly toward the Atlantic (with a few sent to Adelaide). With the NEI and Malaya resources and Oil in jeopardy and/or cut off, it's time to start thinking about replacing those convoys in the North Atlantic with a less vulnerable pipeline using the Canadian Coast and the Denmark Strait. I also pulled 5 CP that were no longer needed out of Faeroes Gap and sent them to Scapa Flow, waiting to be deployed to the Arctic Ocean and Norwegian Sea. One of them will get the Petsamo RP to Murmansk, and the other 4 can be used along with American convoys to ship 2 more RP to Archangel (when the US enters the war).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

What are the Commonwealth priorities for their land units?

Defend the UK?
Offensive operations in Finland?
West Africa invasion?
East Africa roll up of the Italians?
Invade Iraq?
Hold Aden?
Retake Egypt?
Throw the Japanese out of India/Burma/Ceylon?
Defend Singapore?
Retake the NEI oil?
Defend islands in the Pacific?
Defend New Zealand & Australia?

These are far flung objectives. After choosing what to do, units need to be assign for each task - especially transports for delivering the units to their destinations and convoys et al for keeping them in supply.

I get the feeling that Murmansk is getting a lot of resources when it shouldn't necessarily. Perhaps that is the best use of the best CW INF (the 7-3), but you need to figure out what needs to go where all around the globe rather than simply take the best units available and commit them to the bright shining point of current interest.

Objectives should be developed for the Commonwealth for 1941. Those should drive the decisions throughout the year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I'm not a big fan of CW forces used just to guard USSR Karelian cities; but an expeditionary force to travel down the road and attack the Finns is most likely worthwhile:

- it reduces the forces being used to attack the USSR
- if the Germans want to reinforce Finland with their own ground troops they have to do combineds during the summer (at least until Leningrad falls).
- by advancing in Finland, the CW does not have to worry about foreign troop commitment, so it can have an army and an air force in place
- if the CW conquers Finland, it opens up a lend-lease route to Leningrad (up to 2 resources + 4 bp per turn if you like)

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Incidentally, I think one reason why so much attention was paid to the German DoW on China, as compared to all the other activity (the start of Barbarossa and the invasion of Indochina and the Dutch East Indies), is that we are used to seeing Axis successes on your part, so the fact that the Axis had a good start to their widening wars was, by now, unexceptional, while the German DoW on China to game the USE mechanics was seemingly aberrant.

I guess it's just easy to forget that this game & AAR are part of the beta test process and ergo such unusual actions should not be too out of the ordinary.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend defending the Major Port in Ceylon with one unit. This helps the defence of India. Letting Japan gain a major port there is a major threat.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

I think US should send a fleet with a couple of units to India to help secure that front as soon as US enters the war.

I missed that Japan had captured the major port in Ceylon.

Edit: I see no regular army units as reinforcements for the CW or USA. As I understand it US considers landing in Portugal or Spain but in order to be a threat they need regular land units. An odd GAR is not enough in order to mount an offensive.

Edit2: Nice DOW and invasions by Japan. Well done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend defending the Major Port in Ceylon with one unit. This helps the defence of India. Letting Japan gain a major port there is a major threat.

Colombo is only a Minor Port. Trincomalee, which was taken by Japan last impulse is the Major Port, so it's too late to save it.
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Edit: Okay, so I've set my top 3 priorities as:
1. Defend the convoy pipelines
2. Defend India
3. Advance in East Africa

Minor priority is to try to prepare an assault on Finland, but there are 2 fresh short-ranged TRS coming in at the start of J/A '41 which can be dedicated to ferrying troops that way. After Alexander enters Murmansk with his supporting INF, all TRS will be dedicated to moving forces toward the goals listed above.