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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 12:27:27 PM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		Now we know how bloody it can be if allies decide to land in Japan in real world.
500000 KIA or more on allied side was very probable

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3121
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 12:33:19 PM   
guytipton41


Posts: 351
Joined: 2/26/2011
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

DAY 2
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So the turn is away to Jocke. I had a malware hit the game computer last night. Some thing that encrypts files unless you pay a fee. Silly. I have few files on this computer so I'm not too worried, but it's a hassle as usual to figure out how to remove it. That will be this afternoon's project.



Hi Obvert

(On a seperate machine) Download the Linux rescue disk from AVG. Save as IOS on CD and boot from CD. Update the virus definition file and scan. Damn near magic.

http://www.avg.com/us-en/avg-rescue-cd

Cheers
Guy

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3122
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 1:33:39 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Now we know how bloody it can be if allies decide to land in Japan in real world.
500000 KIA or more on allied side was very probable


Yeah. I didn't even really think the Japanese in this game were strong enough still to inflict so much damage, but it just takes one or two big days with so much stuff in such tight quarters. It's made the game much more interesting now.

What's really funny is that for the first time in a long while I heard Tokyo Rose when the Allied DDs hit mine at Singers a week or two ago. Had to laugh as that was a seriously unimportant one-sided Allied victory, while up North in the real battles where we gave some back she was nowhere to be heard. Imagine the propaganda and changed mood in Japan if they had sunk a third of the Allied fleet prior to any landings on the Home Islands.

The Allies would have faced a frenzy of wild-eyed believers that the decisive battle was at hand and the Japanese could still be victorious. It would have been mayhem. Of course the US may have thrown in the towel with those kind of losses as well, even with the bomb almost ready.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 2:33:58 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 3123
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 1:34:19 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: guytipton41


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

DAY 2
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So the turn is away to Jocke. I had a malware hit the game computer last night. Some thing that encrypts files unless you pay a fee. Silly. I have few files on this computer so I'm not too worried, but it's a hassle as usual to figure out how to remove it. That will be this afternoon's project.



Hi Obvert

(On a seperate machine) Download the Linux rescue disk from AVG. Save as IOS on CD and boot from CD. Update the virus definition file and scan. Damn near magic.

http://www.avg.com/us-en/avg-rescue-cd

Cheers
Guy


Thanks. I'll check it out!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to guytipton41)
Post #: 3124
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:35:23 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		I'd like to post some shots from the urn, but they're not so interesting without the artwork! The cryptolocker malware I've got hitching a ride now locked the artwork file for planes in the replay!

So I'll put up a few screens. just imagine there are planes there.

The Allies go all-in again today. no rest for the weary. Defenses were in place, but there is not stopping the power of 4E no strat bombing missions, even if a good deal of pain is dished out in the defense. The bombers always get through, and not only do they get through, in spite of all of the damage inflicted by fighters and the harassment of the massive flak at Osaka, they wipe clean several factories and get huge fires going. Pretty impressive stuff.

The turn began with one of the three remaining IJN subs going hellbent toward the cripples in the Allied fleet. nearly got in there, but finally was crunched by a Dutch DD. Two left heading to their doom tomorrow.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 4:35:52 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3125
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:38:33 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Then waves of poorly coordinated LBA head into the Allied CAP. Massive waves of escorts arriving together disconnected from the body of strike planes. The results were poor, but Some Peggy kamis proved that even LBA can still be dangerous getting single hits on three separate CVEs.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3126
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:40:50 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Then the truly surprising moment! Huge waves of 4Es driving in over the Home Islands without escort or any preceding sweeps!!

The sweeps came later, but not enough to have killed the CAP, and the bombers suffer heavy losses. Still ...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3127
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:42:50 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		... not a good day to be in Osaka!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3128
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:45:40 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		A bunch of B-26B Invaders hit Oita and were crushed without any escort. No hits on the city resulted either. Some training groups got in on this action as well.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3129
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:49:23 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Another Shinden factory is torched at Hammamatsu. That leaves one left. It will be guarded, but there is really no hope it will survive either with this kind of power flying over the Home Islands. If the Allies are oblivious to losses there is little that can stop them. Hat's off for another gutsy move. Hopefully this and the last raid will put a big enough dent in the groups, pilots and pools that we have a few weeks respite. We'll see.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 5:00:35 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3130
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 3:59:05 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		On the day the losses are again huge for the Japanese and quite a lot for the Allies considering the number of 4Es in the mix. Worth it though to shut down the Japanese industry.

My counts show:

B-29 (all) - 73

B-24 (all) - 102




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 4:59:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3131
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 4:03:24 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Here is the list for today of sunk ships. Some Allied CV strikes appeared at Fusan and hit some empty transports. I had let the CAP down very light to get more escorts from there, and didn't get burned too badly at least.

I would doubt the new ones hit this turn actually sunk, although they did have explosion messages after which is a great sign. Rendering them unable to fly planes and needing months in a yard at this point is the goal.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 5:05:25 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3132
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 5:59:11 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Man, it looks like he is getting really impatient.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3133
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 7:54:16 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		2 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: The RO-39 goes big but ends up going home. No joy for the last ride of IJN subs so far. it's all shallow up here so I don't expect much, and how much can I expect from a few RO and a few small I-boats anyway? Actually I just counted. Seven total left now. A few were repairing in port and will sortie tomorrow toward the SW tip of Korea.

KOREA: Troops are moving forward. There is now 20k AV of various rag-tag units and a few very big well experienced divisions. The Allies have just over 5k AV. With some luck and a continued ability to shut down the base at Moppo, this could begin to look like an advantage. Now, the Allies here are the best of the best; the marines. It'll take a lot to push them back, but if I can get enough supply over to do it, I'll graciously sit back and watch the rest of the destruction with a big smile.

If this amphib fleet that's been sailing in around with the Allied CVs has reinforcements for Moppo, including more AA, then it's going to get harder. So another day tomorrow of blasting away at the fleets. This time at restricted range. They certain don't look to be going anywhere North, so Moppo will be our focus. There could be major things happening tomorrow.

The 1E strike planes are a bit shot. Not much left after this and they didn't do anything anyway. The big fast 2E have been more successful for me. Tomorrow a new crop of fresh ones will be ready.

STRAT BOMBING: WOW!!!

A total of 586 4E including what look to be all of the B-29 groups hit Osaka and Hamamatsu.

Big move. Likely a big result. Already there are two very nice factories smoldering of the J7W1s at Hammamatsu and the Ki-83 at Osaka. I have a little pool of Ki-83 now but I'd really like 50 Shindens just to try them. If the last one gets lit up I might cry a little.

HOME ISLANDS: This could now get sticky. Jocke is pulling out all the stops now. It's ramping up to the grand finale. I just hope it's not a grand fizzle after all of the industry goes up in smoke. After the turn there are 239,000 fires burning at Osaka. Not much has been wiped yet, but that will change tomorrow, and the next day, and likely the day after until they burn out. Sigh.

Literally every base should have cover now, and I'm moving big fighter groups around to mess with recon, but I don't think it matters much if the Allies get the mindset that no loss is too great to destroy the industry. This is another month's B-29 production, and at least that in the various B-24 types production as well. Still, I'm sure there are pools, the ability to downgrade, and the massive air force still in China. Every day it's there is gold.

Amazingly, none of the IJN CVs blew up during the night. The two sent to Fukuoka put out the fires. The Kasagi still has four fires, but is one hex out of Hiroshima. The two at Fukuoka will depart for either Hiroshima or Yokohama. I haven't decided which yet. I need lots of CAP but they'll be big flashing red targets, and we've just seen what 4Es can do. Yokohama is at least out of all sweep range except for the silly 20 hex drop tank range for the P-47N. (WTF!)

Another J7W1 factory at 1(29). I just want to try this plane. Come on!!!

CHINA: Taking a beating, but not much else happening. Still a zillion bombers.

DEI: Put a few Franks in the way of a Havocs training group milk run, which is fun. Now back to the real news.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 2, 45 - NIGHT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASW attack near Kaishu at 101,49

Japanese Ships
SS RO-39, hits 11, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Hobart
DD Gansevoort
DD Farenholt
DD Aaron Ward
DD Monssen
DD Tartar
DD Nubian
DD Eskimo
DD Van Ghent

SS RO-39 is sighted by escort
DD Tartar fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Van Ghent attacking submerged sub ....
Large oil slick appears over area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 2, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Fukue-jima , at 101,58

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 45

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 16 destroyed LR CAP over the BBs

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 59
D4Y4 Judy x 34
J2M5 Jack x 19
N1K2-J George x 32
Ki-84a Frank x 12
Ki-102b Randy x 7

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 99
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 153
F4U-1D Corsair x 357

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 4 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 24 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

VF-9 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 18 on standby, 7 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 27000. CAP moved up, but some of today's strikes went in even higher
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 11
D4Y1 Judy x 36

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 98
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 152
F4U-1D Corsair x 353

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 26 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Pioneer

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 35

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 96
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 152
F4U-1D Corsair x 353

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 19 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 115 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 18

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 94
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 152
F4U-1D Corsair x 352

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 13 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 15

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 94
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 152
F4U-1D Corsair x 351

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2a Jill x 32
B7A2 Grace x 29

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 91
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 151
F4U-1D Corsair x 349

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2a Jill: 16 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 9 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet. The first high strike manages to get through even with minor escort. A very expert Ki-100 group though punched them through. Three more hit, but that's all for the day.

Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 27
Ki-100-I Tony x 17

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 90
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 150
F4U-1D Corsair x 346

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 19 destroyed
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-100-I Tony: 4 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Implacable
CVE Slinger, Kamikaze hits 1, heavy damage
CVE Altamaha
CVE Natoma Bay, Kamikaze hits 1
CVE Kadashan Bay, Kamikaze hits 1
CVE Fencer

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Fuel storage explosion on CVE Natoma Bay
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Kadashan Bay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 27
Ki-84a Frank x 21

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 87
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 148
F4U-1D Corsair x 343

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 20 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 48
Ki-84r Frank x 26

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 81
Seafire L.III x 15
F4U-1A Corsair x 144
F4U-1D Corsair x 341

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 34 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-84r Frank: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Pursuer
CVE Empress, heavy damage
PT-26
APA Effingham

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 40
Ki-84r Frank x 33

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 14
Corsair IV x 71
Seafire L.III x 11
F4U-1A Corsair x 128
F4U-1D Corsair x 313

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 28 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CLAA Van Heemskerck

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Moppo , at 100,54

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 158 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 43 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 6
N1K2-J George x 27
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 49
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 28
Ki-84a Frank x 70
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 4 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Moppo , at 100,54

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 55 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 32
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 14
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 7 damaged
Seafire IIC: 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes Great detection, good reaction by CAP, and still half of the bombers get through to hit their target, even though no escort and outnumbered 207-26!!! Sigh.

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 7
A7M2 Sam x 30
J2M3 Jack x 36
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 23
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 46
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 32
Ki-100-I Tony x 28
Ki-102b Randy x 5

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 8 destroyed, 10 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 4 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 2
Fires 810

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Kawato F. in a J2M3 Jack rams a PB4Y-2 Privateer for the Emperor
Banzai! - Chono B. in a A7M2 Sam rams a PB4Y-2 Privateer for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet. This time it's 108-33!!
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 17
J2M5 Jack x 7
N1K2-J George x 10
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 26
Ki-61-Id Tony x 43
Ki-100-I Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 17
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

J7W1 Shinden factory hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
1 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
1 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Now it's 132-15!
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 4
A7M2 Sam x 20
J2M3 Jack x 15
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 11
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 38
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 29
Ki-100-I Tony x 12
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 2 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 1
Fires 2190

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. 77-9
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 12
J2M5 Jack x 4
N1K2-J George x 9
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 16
Ki-61-Id Tony x 32
Ki-100-I Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged


Aircraft Attacking:
5 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. 63-6
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 7
J2M5 Jack x 2
N1K2-J George x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 15
Ki-61-Id Tony x 30
Ki-100-I Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Now the big boys roll in! 109-35 still!
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 3
A7M2 Sam x 15
J2M3 Jack x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 36
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 27
Ki-100-I Tony x 9
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 12
B-29-1 Superfort x 3
B-29-25 Superfort x 14
B-29B Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak
B-29B Superfort: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 55
Ki-83 factory hits 1
Fires 27000

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
1 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Nomura E. in a J2M3 Jack rams a B-29-1 Superfort for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Then this. Game over for Osaka industry!! 77-246!!!!!!!
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 1
A7M2 Sam x 11
J2M3 Jack x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 4
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 23
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 25
Ki-100-I Tony x 7
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 46
B-29-25 Superfort x 108
B-29B Superfort x 92

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 9 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 27 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 4 destroyed, 28 damaged

Manpower hits 737
Ki-84r Frank factory hits 5
Ki-83 factory hits 2
Fires 155325

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
14 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Kabase D. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-29-25 Superfort for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. The worn out CAP keeps fighting, but is less and less able to thwart these strikes. 48-44
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 1
A7M2 Sam x 7
J2M3 Jack x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 3
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 14
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 15
Ki-100-I Tony x 4
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5
B-29-25 Superfort x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 54
Fires 413930

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 56 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Now the hammer. The B-29B is more fragile, but nearly double the bomb load is a BIG difference. 29-40
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 1
A7M2 Sam x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 2
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 11
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 6
B-29B Superfort x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed, 27 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 151
Fires 503700

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
13 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. 14-11
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 4
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 2
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 6
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 1
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 10 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 2 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 35
Fires 428995

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Lots more small strikes at Osaka. Here some Libs get smacked hard. 54-11
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 6
J2M5 Jack x 2
N1K2-J George x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-61-Id Tony x 28
Ki-100-I Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Oita , at 104,59

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet. While CAP gets to and downs a ton of bombers, the forward facing guns syndrome strikes again, crippling CAP by downing 15-18 fighters. No hits here though, which is the whole point, so I'll take it. 61-48
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 9
A7M2 Sam x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 38
Ki-83 x 3
Ki-100-I Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 48

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 9 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 10 destroyed, 15 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A-26B Invader bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x A-26B Invader bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x A-26B Invader bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
14 x A-26B Invader bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Training flight from 213th Shinbu-tai has been caught up in attack
Banzai! - Makino H. in a Ki-100-I Tony rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor
Banzai! - Takenaka V. in a Ki-83 rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor
Banzai! - Suzuki V. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Oita , at 104,59

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 3
A7M2 Sam x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 17
Ki-83 x 1
Ki-100-I Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x A-26B Invader bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Oita , at 104,59

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-100-I Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x A-26B Invader bombing from 15000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Hashiguchi C. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor
Banzai! - Harada A. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor
Banzai! - Okajima A. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor
Banzai! - Koda S. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Fusan at 103,55

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 30
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 13

Allied aircraft
Hellcat I x 21
Hellcat F.II x 11
F6F-5 Hellcat x 170
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat F.II: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 9 destroyed
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Kinmo Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Muroran Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Fusan at 103,55

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 20
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 6

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 8
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 2, 45 - AFTERNOON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 23 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 15
Ki-61-Id Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Nakadori-jima , at 101,57

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 15
Ki-84r Frank x 5

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 7 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet. Plenty of escorts, no bombers. So odd these are all together as they're set to either 15k or 20k for the different strike types. So how to the escorts coordinate and the bombers set to their appropriate level not? It's not cruising speed, as many of the next solo bomber runs are quick like the Peggy and Grace. It's a 7 hex strike, so that's likely part of it, but still.

Cruise speeds: Ki-84: 277 Ki-100: 249 J2M5:230 D4Y4: 230 N1K2: 230 A7M2: 259 B7A2:250 B6N2a: 207 Ki-61(T): 249 Ki-102:249 Ki-43-IV: 280

Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 67
B7A2 Grace x 7
D4Y1 Judy x 9
J2M5 Jack x 14
N1K2-J George x 32
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 11
Ki-84a Frank x 15
Ki-84r Frank x 30
Ki-100-I Tony x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 7

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Corsair IV x 86
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 13
F4U-1A Corsair x 139
F4U-1D Corsair x 326

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 4 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 5 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 2 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet. Oh, here are the bombers!
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 23

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Corsair IV x 82
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 13
F4U-1A Corsair x 135
F4U-1D Corsair x 323

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 5 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 115 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 16

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Corsair IV x 82
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 13
F4U-1A Corsair x 135
F4U-1D Corsair x 322

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet. Now this punches through because the CAP has been chasing high, but it kills me that one small Jill group is escorted by Sams set to 10k while the bombers are at 1k, and their cruise speeds are about as far off as you can get without flying a biplane. (I mean this to be an investigation into beta coordination f LBA, but it does get to me a bit, so please excuse the rants from a players who has lost 4-5k planes this month i naval strike missions!)

Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 16
B6N2a Jill x 10

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Corsair IV x 81
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 13
F4U-1A Corsair x 134
F4U-1D Corsair x 320

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 9 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVE Casablanca
CVE Copahee

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Banzai! - Hagiri N. in a B6N2a Jill is willing to die for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 14
B7A2 Grace x 3

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Corsair IV x 79
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 13
F4U-1A Corsair x 134
F4U-1D Corsair x 318

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 8 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 19
Ki-84r Frank x 16

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16
Corsair IV x 76
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 13
F4U-1A Corsair x 132
F4U-1D Corsair x 315

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 11 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet. Lucky this didn't come in the morning!
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 4
A7M2 Sam x 6
J2M3 Jack x 23
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 49
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 11
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 4
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 6
Ki-100-I Tony x 29
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 54

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *
6 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *
7 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Fusan at 103,55

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 16
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 11

Allied aircraft
Hellcat I x 15
Hellcat F.II x 9
F6F-5 Hellcat x 150
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Nitiho Maru
CM Katsuriki
xAK Bengal Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 2, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,55 (near Pingsiang)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4110 troops, 271 guns, 306 vehicles, Assault Value = 2099

Defending force 127718 troops, 1295 guns, 706 vehicles, Assault Value = 3678

Japanese ground losses:
671 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 19 (2 destroyed, 17 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Assaulting units:
27th Infantry Division
2nd British Division
43rd Infantry Division
18th British Division
7th Infantry Division
208th Field Regiment
55th Heavy Regiment
XV Indian Corps
87th Medium Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
8th Medium Regiment
28th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
India Command
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
85th British AT Gun Regiment
Provisional GMC Grp

Defending units:
27th Division
36th Division
110th Division
62nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
68th Division
22nd Division
22nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
69th Division
92nd Infantry Brigade
61st Infantry Brigade
132nd Division
15th Division
71st Engineer Regiment
131st Division
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
67th Ind.Infantry Battalion
31st Engineer Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
74th Field AA Battalion
72nd Field AA Battalion
38th Army
11th Army
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
22nd AA Regiment
52nd JAAF AF Bn
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
11th Field Artillery Regiment
101st AA Regiment
130th Division
9th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
12th Army
North China Area Army
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
15th AA Regiment
31st Mountain Gun Regiment
10th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Rocket Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
China Expeditionary Army
17th JAAF Base Force
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
75th Field AA Battalion
56th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reinforcements:

120th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
233rd Shinbu-tai arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
7th Ind.Tank Brigade arrives at Utsonomiya
41st Air Defense AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo
3rd Ind.Tank Brigade arrives at Chiba
6th Ind.Tank Brigade arrives at Kagoshima
42nd Tank Regiment arrives at Fukuoka
43rd Tank Regiment arrives at Kagoshima

Losses:

Loss of SS RO-39 on Jun 02, 1945 is admitted
Loss of xAK Syunko Maru on Jun 02, 1945 is admitted
Loss of xAKL Miyati Maru on Jun 02, 1945 is admitted
Loss of xAKL Jinsan Maru on Jun 02, 1945 is admitted

Ships Sunk:

CVL Independence is reported to have been sunk near Nakadori-jima on May 14, 1945
Previous report of sinking of CL Honolulu incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, now the door to Moppo is open. Will the Allies finally try to get in?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 9:00:33 PM >

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Post #: 3134
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 8:03:42 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Man, it looks like he is getting really impatient.


Or just numb to the losses and set on the goal. Now, if it doesn't get a bunch of industry wiped I might do a few cartwheels. That is a lot of 4Es downed.

On the day 586 came in and 175 were downed, or 29.9%!!! That's pretty good, I'd say, and still the industry will most likely be shattered.

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Post #: 3135
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 8:19:07 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
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From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Hi obvert!

Just because I have posted below response to a question by Jocmeister, and it applies very well to your own question about coordination. I have edited out part of the response to avoid breaching FOW.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
As I said Erik has had some remarkable success getting his strike planes in the alpha strike cleanly though.

Anyone know anything about this?


Yes.


Erik did NOT get his "alpha strike" cleanly through. He got shredded. He only attacked with enough planes that you CAP was unable to stop everything.

The combat replay split into separate parts - for example an escorted package preceeded and followed by small unescorted packages that get ripped apart, as in your battle - happened because of your CAP. It was way too much for Erik´s escort fighters to protect every attack plane. The rest was exposed to CAP without any protection.

The only part of the strike that got through unmolested was the one you are thinking of as the "alpha strike", which in thruth was simply the percentage of the strike in cover range of the escort fighters.

It is simply incorrect to watch every combat animation as separate entity. Doing so leads to a whole lot of wrong conclusions about cause&effect relationships, and keeps many players from better understanding the air model.


So to rephrase this:

1) You are so outnumbered against his CAP that you cannot protect your strikes with the escort fighters available. Theres simply not enough Sams to go around. In addition to this probably fatigue issues mix in after all those days of heavy losses.
2) There is so many planes involved in the battles total, that chances increase for different strike fragments to arrive in the same pulse and so appear together in a combat animation. This includes strike packages from different strikes.

Not much you can do about this in the current situation. Just clench your teeth and battle on.

I hope that helps!

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 2/9/2014 9:20:16 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 9:06:37 PM   
EHansen


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< Message edited by EHansen -- 2/9/2014 10:50:50 PM >

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Post #: 3137
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 9:31:44 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen
Anyone here think all his air units followed orders just like Joc wanted? It would appear you got the benefit of escorts not flying, missions fragmented, and sweeps flying in the PM instead of the AM. I guess that makes Joc impatient? numb? How about more frustrated?


He for sure is (IMO much too) impatient.

That said I suggest you pay attention not to breach FOW. You are using information only obtainable in Jocke's other AAR to make a point (escorts not flying).

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Post #: 3138
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 9:59:18 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Man, it looks like he is getting really impatient.


Or just numb to the losses and set on the goal. Now, if it doesn't get a bunch of industry wiped I might do a few cartwheels. That is a lot of 4Es downed.

On the day 586 came in and 175 were downed, or 29.9%!!! That's pretty good, I'd say, and still the industry will most likely be shattered.


Anyone here think all his air units followed orders just like Joc wanted? It would appear you got the benefit of escorts not flying, missions fragmented, and sweeps flying in the PM instead of the AM. I guess that makes Joc impatient? numb? How about more frustrated?


Woah, hold on there. No one's saying he got a great strike. That's my point exactly. It's crap circumstances with all of those big shiny 4E hitting a wall of CAP before the sweeps came.

All I'm mentioning here is that even with all of that he's realized he can take out the industry regardless. He's willing to incur losses to do so.

Is he frustrated? Probably. Could he have flown several Lightning and P-51 escorts for these missions? Most likely.

I certainly wouldn't want my biggest hammer to get messed up because I thought I needed to do everything on one day. If he'd taken 3-4 days for the same thing, maybe swept a bit first, hit some of the fields (which he hasn't done at all by the way on the Home Islands), and assigned some escorts to those strikes then the chances of losing 175 4E go way down.

(Jocke rarely uses escorts with 4E missions. He might have set them but I doubt it based on his usual preferences. See strike here from May26th as well where he also loses 100+ 4E, and the rest of our game, really). http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3538096

So is he frustrated? Yeah, sure. Is this an effective strike? Yes, if it wipes the industry at Osaka and a few good airframe factories. Could it have been done with fewer losses if he'd prepped it a bit more. Definitely.




< Message edited by obvert -- 2/9/2014 11:03:53 PM >

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Post #: 3139
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/9/2014 10:18:44 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Hi obvert!

Just because I have posted below response to a question by Jocmeister, and it applies very well to your own question about coordination. I have edited out part of the response to avoid breaching FOW.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
As I said Erik has had some remarkable success getting his strike planes in the alpha strike cleanly though.

Anyone know anything about this?


Yes.


Erik did NOT get his "alpha strike" cleanly through. He got shredded. He only attacked with enough planes that you CAP was unable to stop everything.

The combat replay split into separate parts - for example an escorted package preceeded and followed by small unescorted packages that get ripped apart, as in your battle - happened because of your CAP. It was way too much for Erik´s escort fighters to protect every attack plane. The rest was exposed to CAP without any protection.

The only part of the strike that got through unmolested was the one you are thinking of as the "alpha strike", which in thruth was simply the percentage of the strike in cover range of the escort fighters.

It is simply incorrect to watch every combat animation as separate entity. Doing so leads to a whole lot of wrong conclusions about cause&effect relationships, and keeps many players from better understanding the air model.


So to rephrase this:

1) You are so outnumbered against his CAP that you cannot protect your strikes with the escort fighters available. Theres simply not enough Sams to go around. In addition to this probably fatigue issues mix in after all those days of heavy losses.
2) There is so many planes involved in the battles total, that chances increase for different strike fragments to arrive in the same pulse and so appear together in a combat animation. This includes strike packages from different strikes.

Not much you can do about this in the current situation. Just clench your teeth and battle on.

I hope that helps!


I appreciate it. Yet it doesn't tell me really anything new, though, and I think you're maybe missing the difference between KB strike packages at this stage and that of LBA. You also have to realize that the CAP on those Allied CVs have to be really fatigued after two days of battles, yet I brought in fresh units that hadn't done anything yet.

I know you're going to say the flights come in alone as a way of showing the CAP can't protect the bombers. When all of the escorts arrive together and then are gone, that is not an abstraction of anything, it is simply showing that they got there to the same place at the same time, while the bombers did not, and it goes against everything you say about coordination.

1. All of the escorts have wildly different cruise speeds yet arrive together, but without any of the bombers that have similar cruse speeds. It's not like the slow pokes are left behind. The Peggy is quick, yet mostly came in without escort. So how did the majority of escorts magically arrive together? And how did they manage to ditch all of the bombers but 15-20 out of 400-500?

2. They were mainly set to two different altitude bands as were the bombers. 15k and 20k. A few groups were set to 1k to draw CAP up and down, and some 10k Sams went with those. Some coordinated very well, but only small packages. Yet with KB there is always at least one, maybe two big strikes together that punch through.

3. Some bombers (less than 20) always seem to arrive with the escorts (in that same pulse, which shows the ability of the escorts to protect them), but never a large number with LBA, even from a level 9 base with great leaders in the several air HQs. Yet with the same planes from a CV they do. Why?

4. I actually would not be so outnumbered if the planes got there together. Even mostly together. The strike that hit 22 CVEs was around 194 Sam, 126 Judy and 110 Grace. That is what is frustrating. There were around 400-500 escorts set from the strikes lats turn, and an almost equal number of bombers. That is more than the KB yet they can't get through when planes from the KB do.

Explaining the details of the abstraction doesn't really help make the coordination any better. I don't mean to be a pain, and I realize you're offering a lot of knowledge, but I wonder if you've tried this version. Are you playing the beta? Do you have these same problems, or not?




< Message edited by obvert -- 2/10/2014 12:41:20 AM >

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Post #: 3140
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 5:54:01 AM   
LoBaron


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quote:

So how did the majority of escorts magically arrive together?


Ok I try again: All of the strike arrived together! It was coordinated. The escorts engaged CAP and were outnumbered, so in your situation they only were able to pretect those bombers you see with them together in the combat animation. That you see the rest of the bombers arriving without protection is just a sign of the escorts being overwhelmed, not lack of coordination.

quote:

Explaining the details of the abstraction doesn't really help make the coordination any better.


No it doesn´t, but that is what I tried to explain. You are in a situation where what you percieve as 'coordination' (= everything, or most of the strike, moving in together and protected by CAP in a single combat animation) is close to impossible. You are running several hundreds of planes from multiple bases of origin into the heaviest CAP/EW combinatino the Allies can muster. There are a whole lot of things preventing your single big combat animation. The more complex the setup, the number of units, the heavier the defense, the more often a strike cohesion will be less than perfect, and it will happen due to multiple different reasons. Only part of what you see is caused by coordination issues as I define the term and as it is used by the game engine.

In your situation I would assume the chance of several combat animations occuring to arrive 100%. I was not posting to help you to improve coordination, but to lower your expectations on how a coordinated strike looks like in this situation.

quote:

I don't mean to be a pain, and I realize you're offering a lot of knowledge, but I wonder if you've tried this version. Are you playing the beta? Do you have these same problems, or not?


Yes, and loving it. I have not played the beta this far into the war as you are (last stock game PBEM was still with the latest official patch), so I do not have any experience with huge late war strikes, but I already know what to expect based on the changes.



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Post #: 3141
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 6:31:17 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

So how did the majority of escorts magically arrive together?


Ok I try again: All of the strike arrived together! It was coordinated. The escorts engaged CAP and were outnumbered, so in your situation they only were able to pretect those bombers you see with them together in the combat animation. That you see the rest of the bombers arriving without protection is just a sign of the escorts being overwhelmed, not lack of coordination.


Hmmmm. Does that mean that every strike is coordinated? I guess I don't really buy that. I don't think they are coordinated because even against smaller CAP it is often the same kind of result. For the Allies too. They sent massive waves of LBA that was shredded as the fighters and bombers 'arrived,' or were 'shown,' or were 'in' different packages. Yet those same planes could coordinate into one package arriving protected from CVs?

Maybe we need to wok on more precise terms for what is going on. If this is coordinated, what was the CV strike that blew up most of the Allied CVEs, uber-coordinated? There is a big difference. So what are the right terms?

Why is it so different, and usually a much better result for the attacker, coming from 4 separate CV TFs maybe up to 10 miles apart as opposed to coming from one big LBA base?
quote:


quote:

Explaining the details of the abstraction doesn't really help make the coordination any better.


No it doesn´t, but that is what I tried to explain. You are in a situation where what you percieve as 'coordination' (= everything, or most of the strike, moving in together and protected by CAP in a single combat animation) is close to impossible. You are running several hundreds of planes from multiple bases of origin into the heaviest CAP/EW combinatino the Allies can muster. There are a whole lot of things preventing your single big combat animation. The more complex the setup, the number of units, the heavier the defense, the more often a strike cohesion will be less than perfect, and it will happen due to multiple different reasons. Only part of what you see is caused by coordination issues as I define the term and as it is used by the game engine.


Almost all from one base actually. A few escorts from the base in the next hex, but most all from Fusan. Are you say we can NEVER expect any decent coordination against a well protected target? That is inherently false, if so, as it happens occasionally from LBA and often from CV air.

I don't mind some 'uncoordination.' That would be expected. What sucks is when the bulk of escorts arrive almost completely without bombers, not sweeping but struggling under the close escort penalty, and yet those escorts are all different speeds, as I said, set to different alt bands, and the other several hundred bombers come in to get massacred completely. This just a turn after a large package from a CV (not all planes mind you, but still around 440) arrived together, with devastating results.

It doesn't make sense. The HQ numbers are similar from the CV commander to the LBA HQ commander. What is so different?
quote:


In your situation I would assume the chance of several combat animations occuring to arrive 100%. I was not posting to help you to improve coordination, but to lower your expectations on how a coordinated strike looks like in this situation.
quote:


I don't mean to be a pain, and I realize you're offering a lot of knowledge, but I wonder if you've tried this version. Are you playing the beta? Do you have these same problems, or not?

quote:


Yes, and loving it. I have not played the beta this far into the war as you are (last stock game PBEM was still with the latest official patch), so I do not have any experience with huge late war strikes, but I already know what to expect based on the changes.



Cool. I actually like the beta too, in spite of my comments here. it is better this way than everything in a mass that obliterates every target.

My expectations will always be higher though than what I'm seeing now because I have seen it work. Rarely, but I have. I want to know more and make it work better. It should in my opinion if it does from the CVs. In fact LBA should be able to organize and and take off closer together than CV air, find their way better using landmarks, etc. Just don't' see why there is the massive difference in result unless there is an inherent and unalterable game system advantage for CV air coordination. If there is, then this all makes more sense. If not, then something is wrong with LBA calculations at present or with our understanding of what makes those strikes coordinate better.

At one point I think Damien said he and Nemo 'figured out' LBA coordination in using the beta. I have some hunches about what it would take, but a larger discussion might be better. I'll think about posting in the main forum. It's a worthy topic, although charged, but common understandings really need an update in using the beta.

All of this said, I'm not completely unhappy with my own results here. Three CVEs hit while challenging a massive fleet with huge CAP and lots of very good flak. The CV strike is the one that seems really odd in terms of results, but somewhere in between would be ideal, where LBA can be a real danger and CV air is not going to obliterate 15-20 ships with each launch.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/10/2014 8:49:49 AM >

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Post #: 3142
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 7:37:55 AM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Cool. My expectations all always be higher than what i'm seeing now because I have seen it work. Rarely, but I have. I want to know more and make it work better.


I am aware of what you expect. And what I explained is that your expectations are (partly) wrong.

I have seen USN CA SAGs maul a Japanese equivalent TF in night battles in mid ´42. Does that make it the norm? No. Does this suggest you can influence the environment on your side only to make it the norm without significantly changing the force relation? No.
If you expect that then you are are confusing an understanding how it works with the capability to influence the result.

Let me tell you what might influence such a result (this is pretty obvious): Overwhelm the CAP with high quality escort fighters and change the relation of your strikes to contain at least 2/3rds escorts to 1/3rd strike a/c. That means in this specific situation you need to at least get 3k top line fighters to escort at least 1.5k dedicated naval strike aircraft. Such a composition might enable you to penetrate the present Allied CAP screen throughout multiple combat animations and might result in the annihilation of the allied fleet.

Your composition was the other way around, if not worse, and contained only a fraction of the required aircraft total. Chances are low you can field enough to meet above requirements at this stage of war.

And last, one of the reasons you bagged 20+ CVEs was because a part of your strike was defended by all your outnumbered escorts. That was as near perfect as you can get given the environment. Had the escorts split into small packages of insufficient numbers, chances are that the outcome would have been much worse for you.

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Post #: 3143
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 8:00:02 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Cool. My expectations all always be higher than what i'm seeing now because I have seen it work. Rarely, but I have. I want to know more and make it work better.


I am aware of what you expect. And what I explained is that your expectations are (partly) wrong.


Well, please don't put words in my mouth, or assume you are 'aware of whatI expect.' I'm not interested in being 'right' or 'wrong.' I'm interested in learning more.

I'm not expecting to wipe out the Allied fleet. I'm hoping for a slightly more coordinated strike to get more of the bombers though, inflict a bit more damage so that LBA actually has the teeth it should. Commanders had a healthy respect for LBA in the war for a reason.

quote:


I have seen USN CA SAGs maul a Japanese equivalent TF in night battles in mid ´42. Does that make it the norm? No. Does this suggest you can influence the environment on your side only to make it the norm without significantly changing the force relation? No.
If you expect that then you are are confusing an understanding how it works with the capability to influence the result.

Let me tell you what might influence such a result (this is pretty obvious): Overwhelm the CAP with high quality escort fighters and change the relation of your strikes to contain at least 2/3rds escorts to 1/3rd strike a/c. That means in this specific situation you need to at least get 3k top line fighters to escort at least 1.5k dedicated naval strike aircraft. Such a composition might enable you to penetrate the present Allied CAP screen throughout multiple combat animations and might result in the annihilation of the allied fleet.

Your composition was the other way around, if not worse, and contained only a fraction of the required aircraft total. Chances are low you can field enough to meet above requirements at this stage of war.

And last, one of the reasons you bagged 20+ CVEs was because a part of your strike was defended by all your outnumbered escorts. That was as near perfect as you can get given the environment. Had the escorts split into small packages of insufficient numbers, chances are that the outcome would have been much worse for you.


Yet that near perfect result you mention from the CV strike happens almost exclusively with CV strikes, not with LBA. Any opinion on that?

Sometimes questions are better than answers. You seem to 'know' exactly how this all works, and are very assured of that. I don't think we should be so assured of our understanding right now in beta, especially late war. You're undoubtedly one of the long time experts on coordination, and I certainly respect that, but something is fishy in our communal understanding. My expectations are not what you think they are.

I'll do a count but I think you're underestimating the numbers I actually had there and the composition based on the outcome. It was not 3k escorts (I think the IJ has about 4500 total fighters right now) but it was close to the 2/3-1/3 ratio.

The quality was there. I used several 49 plane Ki-84r units with some of the best 70-80exp pilots on the map, the equivalent of the KB groups, another very good Ki-100 group as well as Georges and Sams with good pilots.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/10/2014 9:09:18 AM >

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Post #: 3144
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 8:46:14 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Well, for example your last CR posted shows roughly 150 escorts total per phase in support of anti naval strikes. Against this the Allies were fielding 600 fighters easily. I do not see numbers anywhere near what would be required.

Anyways, my attempt was to hint that you, given the circumstances, are doing ok, and given the complex situation have to expect significant parts of the battle out of your control. How and if you integrate this into your understanding of the air combat model is up to you.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 8:55:01 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Just one further question: do you rotate squadrons in and out of the bases used for the strikes on a regular basis? If yes this might impact their availability for the AM strikes.

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Post #: 3146
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 10:01:35 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Just one further question: do you rotate squadrons in and out of the bases used for the strikes on a regular basis? If yes this might impact their availability for the AM strikes.


This is a great point, and in this case I think was significant. I was about to mention that I actually had 294 escorts fly in the morning phase out of around 550 set to fly. Because many moved in during the turn, I think you're right a lot did not fly those first strikes in the morning. Although the bombers that were brought in that turn did fly!!

I had 410 bombers strike durning the morning out of about ~450 set. So what I set was not exactly at 2/3-1/3 strike balance, but quite close, and with a bigger overall total of planes than those that flew from the CVs the turn before. Yet extremely different results.

Some also diverted to support an LBA attack, which was my fault. Too much set in the same area, even though those fighters I wouldn't expect to go with the LBA at a different alt band (10k) and when the airfield strikes had dedicated escorts at their band flying from the originating base, Hiroshima.



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Post #: 3147
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 10:34:50 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		@ LoBaron (or anyone else as well )

One question for you.

Still trying to figure out the difference between CV strikes and LBA strikes at naval targets.

Does leader naval skill help in strikes coordinating for LBA and/or CV air, flying 'together' and finding the target? I mean both group leader and HQ leaders?

Often a good CV air TF leader will have both high air and naval skills as well as potentially high inspiration. A commander for an IJA air HQ will have only high air and inspiration skills, maybe high aggression (but I don't think aggression matters for air HQ leaders, right?).

For group leaders of F/FB groups I prioritize in this order:

air
aggression
(naval - if they are IJN CV groups)
inspiration
leadership

Often for naval units I can find leaders at 60+ in all five categories. Almost all KB group leaders are the best of the best.

For group leaders of DB/TB/LB groups I prioritize in this order:

inspiration
(naval - if they are IJN CV groups)
leadership
aggression/air (high aggression can be a bad thing for strike groups I know, heading into unbeatable odds unwisely)

For HQ leaders of CV TFs I prioritize in this order:

air
naval
inspiration
leadership

aggression (judged by whether I want CVs to react or not, the stage of the war and situation, etc)

Usually the best will be high in all of these, and I have been limiting aggression in CV TFs after some disastrous scattered fleet reactions in 44.

For HQ leaders of LBA I prioritize in this order:

air
inspration
leadership
aggression

naval (I've not thought of assessing this previously for LBA HQ leaders - should I?)

Usually most of the air HQ leaders, and especially those of the Air Army/Air Fleet 4-5 hex HQs will have all of these high.


< Message edited by obvert -- 2/10/2014 2:06:42 PM >

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Post #: 3148
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 1:00:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Here is the current map. The Allies did not move out of the area of the CV strikes the day before. So will they do that today? Are there damaged ships that need shepherding, or are they simply consolidating at long distance to lessen the strength and coordination of LBA strikes? Will anything move to Moppo?

The LBA air strikes will be limited in range tomorrow, and bombardments will attempt to move in to Moppo. Lots of night search, ASW and small kami SAGs heading in before to get the minefield DL up and possibly get the subs detected as well before the BBs arrive.

Lots of questions and intrigue here. Makes for a good exciting and tense game right now.

I don't think the Allies will come back at the HI raiding industry after the previous turn, but I've been wrong before. Just in case I stepped up some areas of CAP and turned on a few units that were resting even though their morale is low. Can't afford an uncontested strike at this point.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/10/2014 2:26:17 PM >

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Post #: 3149
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/10/2014 1:13:46 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Obvert,

Great map! Just one typographical correction: KB is not "retreating" to Ominato, but is conducting a retrograde advance for the purposes of resupply. Alternatively, they have expended all available munitions upon their adversaries, leaving them aflame and sinking. Now, KB needs additional munitions to finish the job!

Onwards! BANZAI!

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